Looks like they read my post here and updated the site with new comments... it;s good to have power...

The whole idea of asking for opinions and nick picking what of those opinions to post is ridiculous.

We are getting down to the level of lion aid and their facebook behavior may be??

Yes! Our posts have been retained and we had the overwhelming say in its conclusion.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Yes! Our posts have been retained and we had the overwhelming say in its conclusion.

In which case we should thank Mike for bringing this to the attention of our members here.

Well done Saeed , Mike, Zig and all the others who took the time and effort to GET INVOLVED.

The vast majority of people are misinformed about the role of hunting in conservation so every time we find a source of misinformation we need to rally the troops - the response from academics , hunters and the general public was outstanding.

Anti hunters talk about conservation , hunters practice conservation.

Thanks Graham, I have just read another of your posts there, well done!

I have submitted my own post, I don't know if they will show it so I have posted it below, if anyone is interested.

Posted by Zig Mackintosh.

Producer of The Elephant and the Poacher: The Ivory Debacle.

There is much to discuss as evidenced by the number of posts so in order to keep the reader’s attention I shall keep my post as short as possible, in bullet form and try and not repeat what has already been said.

• Carrying capacities and over-population are so 20th Century. Oh really? Well better get US Fish and Wildlife Service on the phone and tell them that not too worry they don’t have a white-tailed deer problem in the USA, and things will sort themselves out.
• Here is the problem with your water-point management plan in Hwange National Park, one that Rudi Van Aarde is on record as supporting. It is an all or nothing deal. If you turn off say 10 water points the elephants from those pans simply move from them and create more congestion at others. All of the many smaller animals - warthogs and baboons etc. don't know where the other waterholes are and probably wouldn’t be able to get to them if they did. So you are essentially punishing the animals that are not the problem. The waterholes closest to the tourism areas are the ones that would not be turned off, for obvious reasons. It is here that the elephants would congregate and then die there like flies from starvation. Tourism would collapse which would have a devastating effect on the local human communities that are dependent on tourism. So if we want to turn off the water it has to be all of the pumps which would cause the collapse of the biggest elephant population in Zimbabwe along with the tourism industry. The park could no longer justify its existence as a functioning protected area.
• Your idea of a “corridor” through which the elephant could move to is an interesting one. Perhaps you could show us on a map where your corridor would lead to and how the inhabitants, both human and animal, of the “new” area would react?
• I am sorry but it borders on the criminal to try and airbrush over the tragedy of Tsavo with: Quote “…this led to a change in the dominant vegetation cover from dense bushland to open bushed grassland. In the decades after a severe drought and die-off of elephants in the early 1970s, followed by intense poaching in the 1980s, Tsavo changed from grassland back to bushland.” Unquote. Thousands of elephant did die along with hundreds of black rhino and many other different animal species from the irresponsible decision to “let nature take its course”. Thousands of square miles of Commiphora canopy woodland, not merely bushland, was lost. To the uninformed Tsavo may look in good condition but this was not how it looked before the fiasco. Luckily Peter Beard was on hand to document the tragedy in his book, “The End of the Game” Click here to see some of the images from the book. http://www.christies.com/lotfi...5720915-details.aspx
• I think that one needs to read this before deciding whether the Chobe Park is returning to its original treeless state? http://libres.uncg.edu/ir/uncg...l_elephants_1997.pdf
• Quote: “We argue strenuously, however, with the film’s strong emphasis on trophy hunting of elephants as if it is the only source of rural income” Unquote. Charles Jonga, the Chairman of the CAMPFIRE program categorically states that CAMPFIRE protects about 50,000 sq km(12.7%) of land in Zimbabwe. Benefits from Wildlife and other incomes encompass: about 777,000 households (25%) in Zimbabwe benefited from CAMPFIRE directly or indirectly; one quarter of Zimbabwe’s people are receiving incentives to conserve wildlife and prevent anti-poaching through CAMPFIRE; between 1994 and 2012, CAMPFIRE generated US$39 million of which US$21.5 million was allocated to communities and used for resource management (22%), household benefits (26%), and community projects (52%). About 90% of CAMPFIRE revenue comes from hunting with elephant hunting contributing more than 70% of annual revenue. One wonders how many bottles of honey would have to be sold to make up that sort of revenue.
• The US Fish and Wildlife Service knew before they made their announcement that it would have a serious impact on the hunting safari operators and the communities. In an internal memo one of their own wrote: Quote “early engagement with the sport-hunting community is needed to maintain positive relations and create opportunities for cooperative action to affect change” Unquote. They decided not to engage anyone before making their decision so yes it does smack of “eco-imperialism”
• Whether Rowan Martin’s ivory trading model is floored or not is irrelevant, the fact of the matter is that the ivory trade ban is not working. Elephant poaching has reached unprecedented heights. More of the same will lead to more of the same. Militant protectionism does not work.

The writers of this article suggest that the movie is deeply misleading on key issues of ecology and conservation and that if the pronouncements are heeded that it will be extremely dangerous for the future of African elephants. I contend that the opposite is true.

Good one Zig.

I think some need to realise that honey is rather converted into an alcoholic mead and this is the preferred end product.

Anyone investing in honey around these parts are simply helping to provide cheap booze. Mix that with a bit of poached elephant and life is good.

Nice post Zig. I just happened to read Peter Beard's book and thought it was very sad but honest. The story is really told via the pics (usual for Beard) and it is well worth the effort to find a copy.