Hey all, not to offend anybody, but this is something I'm curious about,

what's the advantage/disadvantage to going through a booking agent versus going straight through the outfitter/PH?

Thanks.

None, if the booking agent is merely relaying offers from the outfitter for the purpose of collecting a commission or getting free or discounted hunts in trade.

On the other hand, if the booking agent represents the outfitter AFTER vetting the company, its operations, and its offers, AND acts as your advocate in the event of a dispute, then it is worth using their services.

The most important thing to ascertain is, is the booking agent working for himself, the outfitter, or you?

The closest corollary I can think of is a real estate agent. They work for the seller, NOT the buyer.

George

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:

The closest corollary I can think of is a real estate agent. They work for the seller, NOT the buyer.

George

The most important thing isn't whether you should use an agent or book direct.

What's far more important is picking the RIGHT agent or outfitter who knows what they're doing and operates in a truly professional manner.

Unfortunately there's an awful lot of instant agents out there who have often spent no more than a few weeks on the dark continent and suddenly go home, set up a website & hey presto, they're an agent.

These people are the bain of all good agents, PHs & outfitters.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
The most important thing isn't whether you should use an agent or book direct.

What's far more important is picking the RIGHT agent or outfitter who knows what they're doing and operates in a truly professional manner.

Unfortunately there's an awful lot of instant agents out there who have often spent no more than a few weeks on the dark continent and suddenly go home, set up a website & hey presto, they're an agent.

These people are the bain of all good agents, PHs & outfitters.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I have done it both ways. There is no savings and a lot of hassles booking direct.

Use Wendell or Mark Young or Aaron and you will be fine.

A good booking agent, read years at the business, and good references; can save you a little $$$. Most importantly, they make it a seamless package.

It is their survival tool to know good Safari Companies, and get you what you want.

Call Kathi at Wild Travel and just ask her a few questions, and you will see.

Rich

quote:

The closest corollary I can think of is a real estate agent. They work for the seller, NOT the buyer.

George

Not true, at least in most states these days.

At one time the agent did represent, almost without exception, the seller. But the buyers--and in a lot of cases, the agents as well--didn't understand the concept of sub-agency, and there were many complaints.

So today, most listing agents represent the seller, and buyers' agents represent the buyer.

A buyer's agent enters into a contract with the buyer who agrees to pay a commission to the agent IF the commission can't be negotiated into the seller's costs--which in most cases, it is.

If the listing agent works with an unrepresented buyer in the purchase of that agent's listing, a situation called dual agency exists, must be disclosed, and can be rejected by either the buyer or seller, who may demand independent representation.

I was a broker in Georgia for over 20 years and saw the transition from sub-agency to buyer agent/seller agent--it was resisted at first but all parties quickly saw the advantages to everyone.

As backward as Georgia can be sometimes, I can say with some pride that we were one of the first states to separate buyer and seller agents.

Of course, each state is different, and there may still be some places where the agent represents only the seller. But I bet not many.

Sorry, didn't mean to make this into a real estate education thread.

Read this article on the subject, couldn't have done a better job myself
Booking Agents: Friend or Foe?

A booking agent can be pretty helpful in protecting a hunter from poorly performing PH's and can also handle lots of details and questions that need tending.

That said, I've never used one for an African hunt. My approach was to try the PH that experienced African hunters I knew recommended on my first trip. I was so pleased that I've continued with the same safari company ever since -- not always using the same PH, but always the same company. I've never come close to being disappointed.

Going directly to the PH may not be the best approach for a new Africa hunter, but it has worked for me and I've never had a single regret. I probably could have saved a few bucks along the way, but I'm sure that I would never have been any happier with the totalality of the experiences.

Meh, crappy statement. <---Kiss mine

I am far from being remotely comparable to a real estate agent or even a car salesman.

I represent a few select outfitters that I have checked out. I don't 'sell' hunts from mass email offerings that some outfits put out just to sell a hunt. I've also never gotten nor expected a free hunt from any outfitter I represent, ever. If I don't have what you are looking for to hunt or an outfit, I'll tell you. I've even, on occasion, sent potential clients to other booking agents that I knew had what was desired.

One of the almost invaluable things that a good agent can do for you is if you are booking a hunt in a country that this not completely stable.( read that as hunting can be open one day and closed the next)The agent can hold your deposit in the US so that if everything falls a part you have a chance of getting at least some of your deposit back.

quote:

I am far from being remotely comparable to a real estate agent or even a car salesman.

Ann, I've always respected your opinions and comments, but that's kind of a harsh indictment of real estate agents, as a generalization.

I realize many people in my second profession (I was a career Army officer first) may not be as reputable as I'd like, but I always placed my clients' needs and wants (those folks with whom I had a fidiciary responsibility) above my own, just as I am sure you place your clients'.

I would appreciate not being type-cast as a "plaid-coated used car salesman" sort of real estate broker, even if you have had unfortunate experiences in the past with those who may not have shared your and my standards.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
I have done it both ways. There is no savings and a lot of hassles booking direct.

Use Wendell or Mark Young or Aaron and you will be fine.

Good advice.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
Meh, crappy statement. <---Kiss mine

I am far from being remotely comparable to a real estate agent or even a car salesman.

I represent a few select outfitters that I have checked out. I don't 'sell' hunts from mass email offerings that some outfits put out just to sell a hunt. I've also never gotten nor expected a free hunt from any outfitter I represent, ever. If I don't have what you are looking for to hunt or an outfit, I'll tell you. I've even, on occasion, sent potential clients to other booking agents that I knew had what was desired.

I could almost grantee that the price of the Safari will be the same or less than that sold by the Outfit. BUT it does help to have a professional agent.

A Good booking agent can smoothe over the rough spots.

If you're booking a plains game trip to South Africa, then I can see booking direct. But if you have a complex, multi-party 21 day Tanzania safari, using a booking agent is definitely a plus. He or she can save you a lot of headaches and mistakes and make life a lot easier. I've done it both ways.

I can see times when a person is comfortable going direct with the Outfitter/PH, if he has already hunted with the outfitter/Ph.

Say they didn't get to take animals X, Y and Z on their previous hunt. Then, they call up or email the Outfitter/PH and say they're ready to come back after X, Y, and Z and let's try for H, I and J if we get a chance. What kind of deal can you make me?

Once the relationship has been built, I could 100% see someone going direct versus thru the booking agent again.

As I said previously and as most posters seem to agree with, it's all about who you book with.

A good agent can smooth things for you and a bad one can REALLY stuff things up for you.

Equally a good operator will ensure everything will run completely smoothly for you whereas a bad one will do the opposite.

The trick is to do your research properly in the first place and make bloody sure you settle on a company whether agent or outfitter who knows exactly what they're doing.

One of the most obvious give aways to tell a dodgy agent OR outfitter is when they make you promises that sound too good to be true....... because those promises usually are just that.

The reputable agent knows the areas, PHs, camps, outfitters and indeed species that all of his/her operators have. Honest recomendations based on honest experience is priceless and could save the client a lot of money .
Most of the agents on AR are experienced hunters themselves, have visited Africa, hunted with the outfits they represent and have professional relationships with the people on the ground.

As Steve says, a good agent ensures that your trip goes as smoothly as humanly possible and that you get good bang for your buck. Good agents WONT deal with bad operators.

Even if you did....not necessarily that you do....pay more to use a booking agent getting one good expensive hunt is a hell of a lot cheaper than one crappy hunt and a second good hunt to right the short falls of the first hunt. Or two crappy hunts for that matter.

Brett

The problem is that there are an awful lot of dodgy and instant agents out there and sometimes they ain't easy for a novice African hunter to sniff out.

These guys are some of the biggest problems of the entire ethical African hunting industry whether agent, outfitter or PH.

A good agent can assist you with every aspect of your safari from the initial booking, travel and right through the taxidermy of your trophies. If an agent is not offering assistance and advise on all these things they are not providing the service their commission pays for.

A legitimate safari booking agent lives, eats and breaths the business everyday. A regular guy just doesn't have the time and often the inclination to gather the info and keep up on the every changing face of the safari business. To take advantage of the agents expertise seems only prudent to me.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
A good agent can assist you with every aspect of your safari from the initial booking, travel and right through the taxidermy of your trophies. If an agent is not offering assistance and advise on all these things they are not providing the service their commission pays for.

A legitimate safari booking agent lives, eats and breaths the business everyday. A regular guy just doesn't have the time and often the inclination to gather the info and keep up on the every changing face of the safari business. To take advantage of the agents expertise seems only prudent to me.

Mark

What agent do you use Mark?

Brett

Thanks a lot for all the replies guys (and ladies). It is a lot for a person to figure it all out, this forum is invaluable. I think my next topic will be "how do normal people afford safaris? followed by "how to convince your wife that Africa should be on her shortlist for vacation spots?"

Red

quote:

real estate agent or even a car salesman

Who said that?

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
Meh, crappy statement. <---Kiss mine

Really, Ann. Is that how you choose to respond?

quote:

I am far from being remotely comparable to a real estate agent or even a car salesman.

I represent a few select outfitters that I have checked out. I don't 'sell' hunts from mass email offerings that some outfits put out just to sell a hunt. I've also never gotten nor expected a free hunt from any outfitter I represent, ever. If I don't have what you are looking for to hunt or an outfit, I'll tell you. I've even, on occasion, sent potential clients to other booking agents that I knew had what was desired.

If you'd read my post closely, you would have seen that my second sentence refers to agents who have performed due diligence is vetting the outfitters they represent. as you claim to do:

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:

On the other hand, if the booking agent represents the outfitter AFTER vetting the company, its operations, and its offers, AND acts as your advocate in the event of a dispute, then it is worth using their services.

There is no justification for you to disrespect me.

George

I have booked direct before, and right now I am waiting for my refund from the cancelled leopard season in Namibia. I am pretty sure if I had used an agent, I would have my deposit back by now.

I have never booked with Ann, but I would rather book with someone who has paid full price for a hunt and vetted it for me. Who cares if that agent only has three or four hunts in Africa? At least they have personally paid for those hunts and aren't selling them sight unseen (there are some pretty well known agents who have sold hunts without visiting that outfit, or at least the current owner).

But a big booking agency does have financial clout, and that is not be underestimated. I have booked a few hunts through Cabelas (I know it is popular to beat them up on AR). My last hunt, taken nearly a decade ago, didn't go so well; that dickhead Russell Seele didn't tell me about my charter. Well guess what? Greg Severinson, the manager of their Outdoor Adventures group, sent me a check for the charter bill. Who else would do that? I know, you could say Seele should have told me about the charter first...

I have booked hunts direct in North America and never had a problem. As for the moniker "it doesn't cost you any more to book with an agent," be careful. On the face it doesn't, but I have often received "last minute" discounts or "early booking" discounts by booking direct.

Ironically, I have never been disappointed on a North American guided hunt. The same is not true of Africa.

A couple of us return to the same landowner to hunt almost yearly, at least every other year. Mainly we repeat because the owner has become good personal friends, we like his ranch, set up, animals, etc. We could book directly through him very easily. We choose to book through his USA agent for several reasons, but mainly because we can pay here in the states with a check, deposits and animals, we can put a "trophy" depostit down as well and if we have money due us,, which is rare, he sends us a check immediatly on return.We over shoot, we send him a check. It is alwasy good to have a local or USA contact.

i prefer direct contact, but that can be very difficult when you are going to a new area. I have been know to trust some booking agents, but very very few. mostly i trust those i have meet or those who are male or female for that matter that have ponytails

Butch,

You can compliment me as much as you like and I'll appreciate it but you still ain't gettin' a discount.

Mark

I've booked direct on both African hunts I've been on; however neither one used US agents.

One other advantage to a US agent: easier contact. don't have to worry about crazy time differences, and US agents are usually easier to get hold of to answer questions, or if slight changes to plans need to be made.

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
Meh, crappy statement. <---Kiss mine

Really, Ann. Is that how you choose to respond?

quote:

I am far from being remotely comparable to a real estate agent or even a car salesman.

I represent a few select outfitters that I have checked out. I don't 'sell' hunts from mass email offerings that some outfits put out just to sell a hunt. I've also never gotten nor expected a free hunt from any outfitter I represent, ever. If I don't have what you are looking for to hunt or an outfit, I'll tell you. I've even, on occasion, sent potential clients to other booking agents that I knew had what was desired.

If you'd read my post closely, you would have seen that my second sentence refers to agents who have performed due diligence is vetting the outfitters they represent. as you claim to do:

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:

On the other hand, if the booking agent represents the outfitter AFTER vetting the company, its operations, and its offers, AND acts as your advocate in the event of a dispute, then it is worth using their services.

There is no justification for you to disrespect me.


George

George,

You seem to be easily offended. You might want to work on getting a thicker skin as well as a sense of humor.

-Bob F.

Lot's of over generalizations in this thread. I have used an agent and booked directly. Interestingly the hunt that came the closest to being a melt down was done through an agent. On the other hand, the last four or five years I have booked directly with Charlton McCallum with absolutely zero issues. To me the key is to do your due diligence and deal with someone that you trust on the other side, whether that is an agent or the outfitter directly. Beyond that, I think it is impossible to make general statements about which is better.

If the outfitter is new to a particular outfitter, the agent is not likely to have a lot of pull with him....outfitter will likely just tell him to stick it if things go south with your hunt. If the agent and outfitter have been working together for a long time, you might MIGHT have less chance of trouble, but if there is trouble, the agent IS going to side with the outfitter to maintain that business relationship rather than keep yours. There are a lot of potential new customers to replace you....but few outfitters to replace the one he has already cultivated a relationship with.


Moral: Book direct! I have seen WAAAY too many agents (on this board) do NOTHING for clients (or express regret but throw their hands up) in the face of clients getting a royal screwing or facing logistical difficulties. If i see one more agent say "Oh, that's africa...think of it as part of the advenure...it will work out....I might just slit my wrists"

From the outfitters point of view - agents (credible ones ) are normaly very experienced in dealing with travel itineraries and all the extras that go with booking a hunting safari. This can be for the add on tours etc as well.
The good agents know you and your product and they can match a client with his needs. Often an outfitter has a limited product base ( sorry to use these terms ) and the sportsman will be attracted to a outfitter for a good sales pitch - but the agents we know and work with normaly match us to the clients needs.
Our agents once they know enough about the hunter and have matched us up - bring the client over to our booth in Reno or Dallas or connect us through email or telephone.
And like all arrangements some times there can be a problem and you can be assured the agent will represent the client to his best ability.
And then in situations where the hunter lands up in a dispute - as a once off the disreputable outfitter could easily walk away from a once of sale whereas with an agent the outfitter no matter how bad he is will try work with the agent so as not to loose his bussiness.
Again my experience is that a good agent does not cost the client a cent but provides a service worth thousands of dollars.