quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
Russ,
I would assume that comment was made "tongue in cheek".
You'd be best to chill a bit mate.

quote:

Originally posted by Opus1:
Karamojo Bell killed over 1000 eles with a 7X57 and crappy bullets.

The .375 is enough gun, but I still like my .416 Rigby.

quote:

by Harry Selby:
The success of the .375 H&H Mag. also resulted in a range of so-called “improved” versions of the cartridge, usually by fire-forming the original case in an enlarged chamber in order to accommodate more powder and, thereby, increase velocity. In my opinion, these “improved” versions do not demonstrate any real advantage over the original Holland & Holland design—which is an extremely well balanced cartridge—other than some extra striking energy and a somewhat flatter trajectory. They certainly produce more noise, more muzzle blast and more recoil.

....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982

Hands of Old Elmer Keith

quote:

Originally posted by Muletrain:
The 375 H&H has unmatched versatility. No argument there. It will do everything one could desire in the hands of a capable rifleman.

But...........it would not be a good idea to approach an elephant, especially multiple elephants, to within "sporting range" with anything less than a 470, preferably a double.

Hunting elephants with a 375 is perfectly fine and probably safe if you do it with one outfitted with a scope and you don't get any closer than 75 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by Russ B:

I read Harry's article with interest and have a few comments to make regarding the 375.

I think a little to much is made of calibre rather than bullet placement. If you hit a charging Buffalo in the Brain or the Spine it will drop dead on the spot, if you miss either of these shots it will have little effect whether you are using a 375 or 416 or 500 for that matter. Geoff Broom used a 375 double for years and shot countless Elephant Buffalo etc some of them on the charge.

The major difference today is good quality bullets. Back when Harry was hunting softs were not great and so everyone used solids and for a first shot from a client on Buffalo this was less than ideal esp; if they were hit in the back of the lungs it would punch a neat hole and the animal would sometimes run for miles. Therefore it stands to reason back then that the bigger the calibre the larger the hole, and so some people shied away from the 375. Today with so many great bullets available the 375 has once again become a popular calibre, with justification.Nevertheless the 375 would have been a wonderful all round calibre for Harry owing to how versatile it was.

On a passing note how can John DL say that Harry is a tottering old geezer and 40 years old field experince means nothing? As a PH of that many years he would have seen thousands of Buffalo cut up and seen first hand what effect bullets were having on animals and would have taken note. Shooting at sand bags and wooden planks is no substitute for performance in the field.

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:

quote:

Originally posted by Opus1:
Karamojo Bell killed over 1000 eles with a 7X57 and crappy bullets.

The .375 is enough gun, but I still like my .416 Rigby.

This has been demonstrated to be inaccurate in the past. Bell killed many with the 7x57 but of those many were killed with the 318 WR.

As far as "crappy bullets" is concerned, Bell himself indicated they were steel jacketed solids which, given their strength and his keen knowledge of elephant anatomy, was why he chose them.

FWIW, I would think the much maligned 338-06 with today's better er, not-crappy bullets would be an even better killer than the WR round was then!

quote:

He shot exactly 1,011 elephants with a series of 6 Rigby-made 7x57mm (.275 Rigby) rifles with 173 grain military ammo.

He shot 300 elephants with a Mannlicher-Schoenauer 6.5x54mm carbine using the long 159 grain FMJ bullets.

He shot 200 pachyderms with the .303 and the 215 grain army bullet.

He went to a .318 Westley Richards for a while, which is a cartridge firing a 250 grain bullet at about 2400 fps, but found the ammunition unreliable and returned to the 7mm.

He also recorded that one of the reasons why he favored the 7x57 was that the ammunition was more reliable and he could not recall ever having a fault with it. Whereas British sporting ammunition, apart from the .303 military ammo, gave him endless trouble with splitting cases.( He used the .303 in the hope of running into a Herd of Bulls so he could make use of the 10shots ! He was famed for using a Martini in .303 & holding the spare rounds between his fingers & could fire the rifle as fast as a bolt action !)

The balance of his elephants were shot with this .318 and his .450/400 Jeffrey double rifle.

He wrote about being able to drop an elephant with a light caliber rifle if he shot it in the same place that he would have shot it with a heavy rifle.

It was unmentioned, but understood, that 7x57 ammunition cost a tenth the price of large caliber .450/400 Jeffrey cartridges and money is always a factor in business.

Just out of interest, it is must to be mention that to judge ammunition expenditure and his own shooting, he calculated an average. He discovered that with the .275 (7x57mm) he fired an average of 1.5 shots per kill. This means that half the time he only needed one shot. That is a fair performance for such a large number of elephants killed and considering that it is common today to fire an insurance shot, anyway. Seemingly a business man of a Hunter with a profit & loss acumen.

It is also interesting to note that, although Bell is the most famous proponent of using small caliber "nitro" rifles for large game, he did not discover the technique, nor was he its earliest advocate. Well known hunter Arthur Neumann, for example, had been shooting elephants with a .303 Lee Met ford rifle for years before Walter Bell got into the business.

WDM Bell is forever associated with the John Rigby & Sons Mauser rifle and the .275 Rigby cartridge. ".275 Rigby" was the British designation for the German 7x57mm Mauser cartridge. This cartridge propelled a .284 caliber, 173 grain bullet at around 2300 fps and the bullets he used for elephant brain shots were full metal jacketed solids. He declared once that a soft point bullet had never sullied the bore of his rifle. It is interesting to compare these ballistics with what is commonly regarded as essential performance today.

quote:

Originally posted by Scriptus:
Just a thought, I have read that Ron Thomson used a .458 Win-Mag for culling, but also a 7.62 FN FAL/SLR for really serious stuff like a total matriarchal/breeding herd cull.

absolute unadulterated bullshit. Calling it like is, aye, straight up hey Jdollar.

quote:

He considers the 416 to be a capable stopping round, as are the heavier calibers. But since he considers shot placement to be far more important than cartridge size it is understandable why he stated in the past that he would prefer a hunter come to Africa with a 375 versus say a double rifle he is not proficient with. Most shooters would have a greater potential to be accurate with a 375.

I shoot both, I do not fear the recoil of the 416, but my 375 will be my primary rifle on any trip to Africa.

It's all about shot placement.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
416Tanzan,
I cry FOUL on the guinea fowl!
Should have been a head shot!
Lot of meat wasted on the center-of-mass shot!
And a .375 H&H is perfectly adequate for any varmint hunting!!!