Ladies and Gentlemen,

Again, this is related by Robin Hurt in his book HUNTING THE BIG FIVE.

"One day we saw a male elephant with a colossal body, and Jimmy informed me that he wanted to try his .577 rifle by attemting a frontal brain shot. These Botswana bulls have massive skulls, and it was not advisable for someone who had not done it before to try a frontal brain shot on these elephants. I asked Jimmy how many elephants he had shot that way, and he replied: "None, but I know how its done." When I tried to explain to him carefully about the angles involved, he became irritated and did not want to listen. So, off we went after the elephant, tracking its colossal foorprints, which two of my feet would fit in easily, in the soft sand. We caught up with it in the mopane woodland, ambling away, and approached its tail from about twenty yards. I asked Jimmy if he was ready, and picked up a small branch and snapped it in half with a loud crack.

As I had anticipated, the elephant turned around to see what the disturbance was, head up, looking for us, with ears outstretched. Jimmy fired, I saw the dust fly off the elephants skull about six inches above the level of the eyes. The shot was far too high, missing the brain, and did not even stun this brute of a bull. Jimmy would not allow me to shoot as backup, and the elephant wheeled off in high gear. Jimmy let rip the second barrel of his .577 into his disappearing rump with no effect whatsoever. I decided that things have gotten out of hand, and being extremely fit in those days, I took off after the bull runnin. I caught up with it, and lukily managed to anchor it with a shot in the hip. Running around to the side, I finished it with shot through the ear hole into the brain. Jimmy arrived a little later, fuming, but not able to say anything. He had refused to listen to advice."

Saeed,

Perhaps he was reading (and believing) his own press releases.

jim dodd

Saeed,

Robin was have been a baby at the time.

I will have to stick up for a namesake, in that if it wasn't for the rich guys like Jimmy Stewart, ole Robin wouldn't have the stories to tell, and sell for $1250!!

Will

Somebodys got to be on top of every heep!! and someone on the bottom...

Ahh, not to worry Ray ... you'll sleep on the porch one day ...

Ya'll should note that "Jimmy Stewart" is NOT the kind old actor you're thinking of from "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance".

The actor in question's name who used the 577 in Africa IS Jimmy Stewart,but his stage name was Stewart Granger.You might remember him from "King Solomon's Mines".

Brian.

Ah Stewart Granger. That makes sense. He would know how to do it because he did it in a movie

Still it is good to see an ACTOR actually hunting and not carrying on with the fairies .

Gentlemen,

On the subject of celebrities hunting, it seems quite a few of them enjoy our favorite sport, it is just that they wish to keep it away from the media.

Why this is the case I have no idea. PC again I suppose

I have forgotten which PH told me but he was supposedly in a camp in Botswana where Ted Turner was hunting, but all were forbidden from taking photos.

All the political correctness stuff.

Nick-
It might come as a surprise but the truth is Robin Hurt is not the highest priced outfit in TZ these days, nor is his old outfit TGT.

I suspect that at some point price becomes more a measure of greed than of value.

...or possibly of demand, to put a positive light on the subject.

JohnS - Hi John!
If you have discovered an outfit that charges more money, for a greater number of "services" than RH, I'll thank you NOT to enlighten me, as my stomach just can't handle it.

DMCI - I'm with you on that.

Nick-
Actually there is MORE than one outfit! And they are both considerably more. What one person wants isn't always the same as everyone else, so there is always a choice. I found out a very long time ago that one needs to look well beyond the numbers before making a decision.
As an example, with most outfits you are booked to hunt 2 areas on a typical 21 day safari. The outfitter typically has all of his areas booked for each segment of the season, so as your party is leaving and area thenext one arrives, etc etc. If for some reason your hunt isn't going as planned or maybe better than you'd hoped and you'd like to change areas early you're usually SOL until the "moving" day.
Now, what if the outfit you're hunting with has a large number of areas, let's say he has 14 of them scattered about Tanzania. And say he only uses three or four of them during any one 21 day segment. Now if you want to change areas early you can, and have your choice of about 10 different camps, hmm... Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that he only hunts each area a maximum of about 5 parties per season. And the trophies he gets...well you didn't want to know any more anyway.

[ 05-26-2003, 07:07: Message edited by: John S ]

John,

I've seen the prices for TGT (haven't seen Hurt's prices). Hard to believe there are others who are more expensive than TGT. I believe you, it's just hard to believe.

The last time I looked, TGT prices were about 20% higher than the average and their charter rates were as much as 50% higher than the average.

Regards,

Terry

[ 05-26-2003, 07:31: Message edited by: T.Carr ]

Terry,
TGT used to include all of the gov't fees in their base price, which did inflate the base numbers! Last time I looked they were still doing this, as well as using their own aircraft for the charters. And at that, they were cheaper than some quotes I have seen.

When comparing apples to apples , in the way of hunts, RH is the highest I have found. I have 2002 literature from all the high-end outfits that are known to me, not to say that's the bottom line, of course.

Gentlemen,

Now we are talking about how much something costs, this got me thinking about this book.

It is a large format book, and I did enjoy reading it. But, at the prices they charge for it, it certainly is not worth the money.

I have read African hunting books which I have enjoyed a lot more, and they cost a lot less too.

I forgot what it costs, probably around $1,500

Nick-
For 2003:
Robin Hurt Safaris $39,600 1x1 21days
Hunting Permit $600
Concession Fee $2100
Area Fee $2100
Trophy Export License $300
Trophy handling & prep $3000
Charter Fees (2 camps) $10,800
Firearm Import $300 per gun
Sub Total $58,200

Tanzania Game Trackers $46,460 1x1 21days
Air charter (2 camps) $7415
Firearm Import $350 flat rate
Sub Total $54,225*

*Includes all gov't area and concession fees, dip and pack of trophies.

Tanzania Big Game Safaris $45,100 21days 1x1
Conservation Fee $2100
Area Fee $4725
Rifle Import Fee $250 per gun
Charter Fees (2 camps) $10,000
Trophy Dip and Pack $2500
Sub Total $64,925

[ 05-26-2003, 21:19: Message edited by: John S ]

Bargains ... All!

Saeed - The price of the book reflects upon just how fond RH is of RH and coincides, perfectly, with his hunt offerings. To quote DCMI's above post:

"I suspect that at some point price becomes more a measure of greed than of value."

That says it all as far as I'm concerned. Done.

[ 05-26-2003, 21:34: Message edited by: Nickudu ]

It sounds as if Mr. Stewart (Granger) had the correct aiming point. He needed only to stand atop a 12' stepladder while taking the shot. It would have crumpled the elephant and thrown the actor some distance.


H. C.

Since this topic has turned into a discussion about Tanzanian safari prices I'd like to ask a question. What in God's name can TGTS be offering observers at $700.00 per day? Yes! That is their current rate.

TGTS's prices I'm sure are based on what the market will bear and people are willing to pay large sums to hunt with what they consider the best. Do people really think the observer gets more out of the experience by charging them more?

We booked 2 years ago for this summer with Wengert-Windrose which of course this last year came under the Legendary Adventures/TGTS etc. umbrella. We are not paying TGTS prices nor could we but if the people directly behind us booked after the merger they will pay the TGTS prices. Do you think that the observers will enjoy their experience more than twice as much as Sadie will because they paid more?

I realize I'm getting off on a rant here but this observer fee has always been a thorn in my side. How much can it cost the safari company to take care of the observer? In some cases the observer just hangs out at camp and relaxes. I can see the safari company making a little profit but $700.00 per day just seems all out of reason to me.

The only reasons that I can come up with for the prices would be that they want to discourage people from bringing the wife and all the kids or they only want the clients that just don't care what it costs.

Perhaps some of you more experienced African hunters than I have some ideas about this.

Mark-
My 2003 brochure for TGTS shows observer rates for a 21 day hunt to be $6930.00. This amounts to a bit over $300 per day, and I agree that is exorbitant but RHS gets $6300 and TBGS gets $8030 for similar, so they are about the average for the three companies I listed.
Also, when I have booked my own hunts in the past I typically found those fees to be highly negotiable, especially if the hunt is a 2x2 or 3x3.
Many folks are obviously going to be left out at these prices, and they aren't going down simply because there are enough big lions, fantastic plains game and 46"+ buffalo there to keep the operators happy. Throw in the troubles in Zim and Botswana screwing with their game quotas and.... One safari in TZ vs three to anywhere else and the choice is/was a no brainer for me.

[ 05-26-2003, 23:12: Message edited by: John S ]

Mark,

It's big ripoff for sure. They have to cover food, laundry, etc. but it's pricey!

Anybody that can afford to hunt with TGT probably doesn't care about the cost anyway, eh?
At $2K plus a day to hunt, what's a few hundred bucks for companionship?

John,

I stand corrected I was quoting the companion hunt fee. Quess I lost my head when I saw the numbers.

What really gripes me is that on my last safari to Zambia I took 2 observers for a 34 day hunt/fish and they paid exactly $50 per day and fully participated in everything except the shooting.

From a Canadian outfitters perspective (and I am basing this on Fred Webbs excellent books)

An 'observer' takes up the same amount of space, eats just as much, and pesters the cook and camp staff all the time, and takes up the space of a paying hunter.

Of course it is probably different in Africa, but his comments are pretty amusing...I would reccomend his books.

My mother-in-law met Stewart Granger. She said he was a rude and impatient "nasty man."

I always thought highly of him after I heard that story. Loved his old movies.

Hey DaggaRon, Did you lose a "g" ????

[ 05-28-2003, 03:27: Message edited by: Nickudu ]

I used to hunt with Charl Beukes , when he had the old Molombo Safaris , and later Ngwenya Safaris ,in the Luangwa Valley, but that was before he became manageing partner of TGT . Now it costs $10 to speak to his PHs! They sure jumped out of my price range!

[ 05-28-2003, 04:07: Message edited by: MacD37 ]

Bwana Nick,
See the 400 H&H thread about the naked king.