I was in there today guys, and spoke with representative Robert Pearson, Jr. He was cordial and took his time with my questions and had no problem with my looking around and all. I had my 450 #2 cartridge from RETREEVER with me and compared it to others there. The 600 and 700 NE's are big, BIG, BIG, the 700 being almost like some one was just fooling around and made up a joke cartridge. Over all it's as long or slightly longer than the 450 #2 NE, (near 4.5 inches) and it's FAT LIKE A SECTION OF A BROOM HANDLE. Base diameter is .780" and at the neck it's .728!!!!! Any one who has shot any animal with a 700 let's hear about the damage.

Yes the 700 is huge. A 600 NE round fits inside the 700 brass with only about a quarter inch sticking out. I have a video (Hunters and Ivory) where a guy uses a 700 on an Elephant. Frontal brain shot and the ele just sits down and falls over. Too bad the gun is so heavy that you can't walk 10 feet with it much less 10 miles.

Just checked out their web site last night.Lists rifles in the 40000$+ range.I would like to walk in there one day with a nice suit,and purchase a bunch.Then turn the clock back 60 years and purchase an airline ticket to Africa.Have some chick keeping me cool waving a feathered fan,feeding me grapes.

The first elephant taken with a .700 H&H Nitro was with our outfit in 1990. Bill Feldstein, who had the cartridge designed and manufactured by Bell Labratories, shot it. Nothing special about the kill as I recall.
My impression was too much frontal area for good penetration at that velocity which was claimed to be 2,000 fps. The bullet is more pointed than that of a .600 Nitro which in theory should help.
It's the only rifle that I can remember that the trackers argued about who had to carry it. About 18 lbs worth!

Rich Elliott

Jack, did you look at the Hollis and Son 470 that they had?

Rusty,

I do not think I saw that rifle in there.
I walk in the place 6 times per year or so and talk.
The people there are cordial.

I took a guy in there 8 months ago who has killed 5 TROPHY bull ellie with http://www.tshabezisafaris.com, one had both tusks over 71 lbs.
He's killed a super Lion, buff etc. Names Brian Busch.
He was wearing his ellie hide shoes, looked like Wes Rich type.
Any way I was dressed in a sport jacket and slacks but Brian, a self made MM was in jeans and a light weight coat that was to big, and wore a beat up ball cap twisted to one side, you get the picture.
Any way they let us in, and at once before any of them could speak I introduced Brian and proclaimed his collecting the 5 BULLS.
With ZERO TIME LAPSE the Brit had stolen a glance at Brian's shoes and asked, "Which one are those from?" in that perfectly elegant accent we all know so well.
"Number two" says Brian, and from then on, I was in heaven...

I can tell you when in London for Thanksgiving visiting my son, we went down the street where H&H is and we were blown off inside H&H did not want to even talk to us..
Great people inside of William Evans down the street great people there and Capstick carried a Willaim Evans DR in 470... Farther down went into Purdey very nice people ther also..

Mike

BFJack,

The .600 & .700 doubles sound like real thumpers...

I am curious to know what sort of big bore magazine rifles as well as 'stalking' rifles they have on hand?

Regards,
Dave

DC,

http://www.hollandandholland.com gunrooms in NY, Paris, London inventory lists with pic's, ENJOY!

RETREEVER,

That was not sane of them to judge you that way, my bud Brian began a negotiation for a 500 NE round action the day I took him in, and he really was NOT dressed to impress. They sell 80 or so rifles and shotguns together per year, (NEW H&H) I guess they think if you are in their league money wise, you will make what ever has to happen, HAPPEN.

BERETTA has a nice place here in NYC too. 5 floors or so filled with stuff, a great place to visit. It's nicer than H&H by far since H&H now is a little place, gunroom only set up. When H&H was on 57st. they owned the 7 floor bldg and it was FILLED with 5 floors of clothes and supplies and all, and the gun room was bigger/ nicer. Now they don't even sell ammo, so you can't buy a 577, 600 or 700 NE round for your collection!

quote:

Originally posted by retreever:
I can tell you when in London for Thanksgiving visiting my son, we went down the street where H&H is and we were blown off inside H&H did not want to even talk to us..
Great people inside of William Evans down the street great people there and Capstick carried a Willaim Evans DR in 470... Farther down went into Purdey very nice people ther also..

Mike

That's very interesting, and it seems like you had some bad luck there for some reason. I was in H&H's London shop only a few days before Thanksgiving, and was treated exeptionally well. And I was dressed very casually too. I spent quite some time there handling all the double rifles on display, a bunch of their shotguns and a few bolt actions. I've had the same experiance when I've been there before also.

Boss&Co was basically the same as H&H when it came to service, and I was allowed to do as I pleased, taking down which ever gun I wanted to look at myself (the guns displayed there are not locked in glass cabinets), and having a nice chat with the guys there.

I was less impressed with Purdey, although I was allowed to go into the "Long Room" to look around, and handle the few guns they had on display. But I did not feel very welcomed really. And not much was going on there at the time either, so it wasn't that they were very busy.

Jack,
Too bad you missed this one!

A. Hollis and Son 470

I was also treated very well the three times I went into the Holland London Gun Room. I am 24 and wasn't wearing nice clothes either so maybe you just got a salesman on a bad day.

Same experience at Purdey as Erik. Seemed like pricks to me.

When next in London, check out the restaurant in this web site.....http://community.iexplore.com/planning/journalEntryDining.asp?journalID=43452&entryID=26000&n=St.+John+Restaurant+Smithfield

I enjoyed visiting H&H's store in Beverly Hills. Not too much of a gun room, more of an overpriced clothing and trinkets store, but still fun to go in and chat and have a cup of tea.

I must have been one of the few that did, though, since it's not there anymore...

quote:

Originally posted by retreever:
I can tell you when in London for Thanksgiving visiting my son, we went down the street where H&H is and we were blown off inside H&H did not want to even talk to us..
Great people inside of William Evans down the street great people there and Capstick carried a Willaim Evans DR in 470... Farther down went into Purdey very nice people ther also..

Mike

So all these are on the same street?

Personally,I would not go into a place like that if I did not want to buy a rifle right there.Hundred thousand dollar rifles are not meant to be touched by numerous hands.If I owned the place I would throw all of you out.Seriously!

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Personally,I would not go into a place like that if I did not want to buy a rifle right there.Hundred thousand dollar rifles are not meant to be touched by numerous hands.If I owned the place I would throw all of you out.Seriously!

That for sure sounds like the makings of a winning business plan.
Why dont you sleep it off man and come back when you are sober.

Bulldog,

One thing I found funny while at Purdeys was a customer (the only other one actually) who came in with his Purdey 12 gauge to have it cleaned. And I'm not talking about them checking over and inspecting the gun as they might do once every so often, but just cleaning the barrels etc after the guy had been on a shoot the weekend before. I guess he didn't want to get any nitro solvent on his own hands...

Since I know several owners of both Purdeys and H&Hs, who are not in my opinion the biggest gun enthusiasts in the world (they can afford the guns, but are not very interested in guns), they at least take pride in wiping over their own guns after shooting.

Shootaway,

You have to be kidding.

First of all, who is to say that we were not in the market for one of their shotguns or rifles? I was not, but you didn't know that, so in theory I could have been.

Second of all, if we were not in the market right now, maybe we could be potential future customers? And just how would the staff at Purdeys, H&H or whom ever it may be judge this? By our cloths? The guys at H&H, Boss, Purdey etc. are smart enough to know that not everyone capable of purchasing their products walks around flaunting that on a daily basis by "dressing up". In fact quite a few nowadays do the opposite and dress casually because they are in a position to do exactly as they wish, and don't give a damn about what other people think.

As Jarrod said, your way of thinking is far from being a smart business plan...

I would prefer visiting a Winchester or Weatherby showroom if there is such a place.I hate getting people's hopes up thinking there going to sell me a rifle when I don't plan on buying one.I would like to one day buy a custom rifle.I think 10000 is the max I would spend.I might even build one myself seeking the expertise of various craftsmen instead of from a single shop,if convinced it would make a better gun.I wouldn't spend a dime more no matter how much money I had in this world.

Weatherby had a showroom, when I was las there in 2000. You could handle all the current rifles but they didn't sell them.

I made an appointment to look at a Rigby/Rogue River rifle like Boddingtons 8mm magnum and when i arrived the cunt at the door wouldn't let me in. I told her I had an appointment and she stormed off. So I drove back home and said fuck it.

I talked to Geoff a few months later and he asked me why I never showed up. He had promised me a signed copy of Craig's Book but I wasn't going to get blown off by some ninny making $8.50 an hour answering the phone.

quote:

Originally posted by D99:
Weatherby had a showroom, when I was las there in 2000. You could handle all the current rifles but they didn't sell them.

I made an appointment to look at a Rigby/Rogue River rifle like Boddingtons 8mm magnum and when i arrived the cunt at the door wouldn't let me in. I told her I had an appointment and she stormed off. So I drove back home and said fuck it.

I talked to Geoff a few months later and he asked me why I never showed up. He had promised me a signed copy of Craig's Book but I wasn't going to get blown off by some ninny making $8.50 an hour answering the phone.

Ok so what was the final outcome?
Where do you have to make an appointment to look at a rifle?

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Personally,I would not go into a place like that if I did not want to buy a rifle right there.Hundred thousand dollar rifles are not meant to be touched by numerous hands.If I owned the place I would throw all of you out.Seriously!

SHOOTAWAY,

Those rifles ARE made to be shot, dropped, draggged through the bush, etc. It's just a question of an owner doing what he wants to do with it. Most who can go for a new one, can afford to have it "kept up" by the maker.

quote:

Originally posted by ErikD:
Bulldog,

One thing I found funny while at Purdeys was a customer (the only other one actually) who came in with his Purdey 12 gauge to have it cleaned. And I'm not talking about them checking over and inspecting the gun as they might do once every so often, but just cleaning the barrels etc after the guy had been on a shoot the weekend before. I guess he didn't want to get any nitro solvent on his own hands...

Since I know several owners of both Purdeys and H&Hs, who are not in my opinion the biggest gun enthusiasts in the world (they can afford the guns, but are not very interested in guns), they at least take pride in wiping over their own guns after shooting.

Did they clean it for him?

quote:

Originally posted by bulldog563:

quote:

Originally posted by ErikD:
Bulldog,

One thing I found funny while at Purdeys was a customer (the only other one actually) who came in with his Purdey 12 gauge to have it cleaned. And I'm not talking about them checking over and inspecting the gun as they might do once every so often, but just cleaning the barrels etc after the guy had been on a shoot the weekend before. I guess he didn't want to get any nitro solvent on his own hands...

Since I know several owners of both Purdeys and H&Hs, who are not in my opinion the biggest gun enthusiasts in the world (they can afford the guns, but are not very interested in guns), they at least take pride in wiping over their own guns after shooting.

Did they clean it for him?

I can assure you that owners of Holland and Hollands and Purdeys are quite capable of cleaning their own guns.

But why would they want to?

I know I could have went down to the local gas station and called and got in. But I didn't feel like it was worth my time. After the cunt gave me the brush off.

I would still love to have one of those 88 Winchesters they made in 358, and another one in 6.5-284.

I,ve come across people who have been succesful in business and who don't know anything about the product they are selling.D99,about that bitch,I wouldn't let her bother me.Sometimes owners don't have complete controll over all that is going on in their businesses.Other times there is someone turning out good things and he does not get a word said about him.He remains non-famous to the majority.

quote:

Originally posted by bulldog563:

quote:

Originally posted by ErikD:
Bulldog,

One thing I found funny while at Purdeys was a customer (the only other one actually) who came in with his Purdey 12 gauge to have it cleaned. And I'm not talking about them checking over and inspecting the gun as they might do once every so often, but just cleaning the barrels etc after the guy had been on a shoot the weekend before. I guess he didn't want to get any nitro solvent on his own hands...

Since I know several owners of both Purdeys and H&Hs, who are not in my opinion the biggest gun enthusiasts in the world (they can afford the guns, but are not very interested in guns), they at least take pride in wiping over their own guns after shooting.

Did they clean it for him?

They took it in for cleaning, and promised to have it ready for his next shoot if I recall correctly. The man probably wasted more time going down to Purdey, then he would have used cleaning the gun himself. Differant strokes for differant folks...

quote:

Originally posted by ErikD:

quote:

Originally posted by bulldog563:
Did they clean it for him?

They took it in for cleaning, and promised to have it ready for his next shoot if I recall correctly. The man probably wasted more time going down to Purdey, then he would have used cleaning the gun himself. Differant strokes for differant folks...

Jolly Good.


.

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:

quote:

Originally posted by ErikD:

quote:

Originally posted by bulldog563:
Did they clean it for him?

They took it in for cleaning, and promised to have it ready for his next shoot if I recall correctly. The man probably wasted more time going down to Purdey, then he would have used cleaning the gun himself. Differant strokes for differant folks...

Jolly Good.


.

Actually, the customer had an accent that sounded more like he was Russian.

I will add my 2 cents worth, you should never judge a person by what they are wearing. I went to a Cabelas store with a sizeable year end bonus looking at Merkel 470 and was told by a sales person "You don't need a double rifle" and he and the rest of the people went on with other business. Not that they were busy, but ultimately they lost the sale. I kind of wish I would have bought it then anyway, but it really ticked me off and I decided I'd go somewhere else and spend my money. Unfortunately I didn't spend on a double rifle. Sometimes people should just be nice. You don't have to listen to some of the crazy stories, but you can at least be pleasant and tell someone you're available if they need any help.

Mike,

Your negative experience at the H&H showroom is much different than I've seen.

I've stopped in there four times in the past 6-8 months and have always been impressed with their courtesy, willingness to talk and let me look at rifles of interest. I was in blue jeans at least two of those times and made it clear I was unlikely to buy new from them. We've talked about used doubles, their problems finding same, repairs, the new H&H 400, etc.

Bet you have a better experience next time.

Emory

quote:

Originally posted by ErikD:

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:

quote:

Originally posted by ErikD:

quote:

Originally posted by bulldog563:
Did they clean it for him?

They took it in for cleaning, and promised to have it ready for his next shoot if I recall correctly. The man probably wasted more time going down to Purdey, then he would have used cleaning the gun himself. Differant strokes for differant folks...

Jolly Good.


.

Actually, the customer had an accent that sounded more like he was Russian.

You've of course heard the one about the Russian at the pheasant shoot?

When asked if his pheasant shoot on the weekend went well, he replied

"Nyet, only three peasants!"

The Gunroom salesman said

"Sir you mean pheasants?"

"Nyet!" replied the Russian, "The damned peasants wouldn't pick up my birds!"

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:

quote:

Originally posted by ErikD:

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:

quote:

Originally posted by ErikD:

quote:

Originally posted by bulldog563:
Did they clean it for him?

They took it in for cleaning, and promised to have it ready for his next shoot if I recall correctly. The man probably wasted more time going down to Purdey, then he would have used cleaning the gun himself. Differant strokes for differant folks...

Jolly Good.


.

Actually, the customer had an accent that sounded more like he was Russian.

You've of course heard the one about the Russian at the pheasant shoot?

When asked if his pheasant shoot on the weekend went well, he replied

"Nyet, only three peasants!"

The Gunroom salesman said

"Sir you mean pheasants?"

"Nyet!" replied the Russian, "The damned peasants wouldn't pick up my birds!"

Hey! That was the guy I'm talking about! Or at least he had the same attitude!

quote:

Originally posted by Kurick1:
I will add my 2 cents worth, you should never judge a person by what they are wearing.

How right you are. I know a few people right off the top of my head that could buy just about any gun they wanted, but to look at their clothes and talk to them you would think they couldnt afford to eat.

My uncle for one. There is no telling how old and outdated some of that man's clothes are. I would say he has more money than I will ever see. He more or less lives off the interest.

I stopped in at the NYC H&H store a few years ago looking exactly like a poor graduate student on a job interview down the street (which is exactly what I was). If I remember correctly, I was actually carrying my luggage with me and on the way to Penn station. It didn't matter that I looked like an impoverished tourist, I was treated VERY hospitably in the gun room.

Best,

John

When I visit a nice gunshop and I see a gun that I know is out of my reach I just tell the truth..Sir, I don't have the money to buy that gun but may I handle it? Thanks God they have allways allowed me to do it.

L

Hard working people who have money dress up and have their teeth fixed.People who deprive themselves of everything,ctitisize everyone else on how they spend all their money,reach 70 and have a million dollar property are not rich.Rich people may dress casually ,but the sweater costs 2k.As for H&H,those guns are owned by someone.That same person pays the salary of the guys showing the guns,along with the high rent.It is in their interest of survival to exclude.