What's wrong with looking at them and handling them if the sales staff are happy with it.

Sheesh!!!


Some of the staff may actually like a chance to show their wares to honest hunters and shooters from around the globe. And a positive service attitude may actually enhance their goodwill and reputation, don't you think?

Shootaway,

I am not sure that I am following you in your last sentance.
Please restate your position.
The FRENCH, uggg fashion/perfume company CHANNEL, as in #5 has owned H&H for some no. of years now.

Greek,

G&H NYC showroom is no more....
They have a nice set up in Bedminster, NJ

All,

Don't forget BERETTA when in NYC, they are on Madison Ave, IIRC in the 65st area, a very nice, multi floor building, very nice.

i would like to stop by and handle one too.Just looking at things from both extremes.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Hard working people who have money dress up and have their teeth fixed.People who deprive themselves of everything,ctitisize everyone else on how they spend all their money,reach 70 and have a million dollar property are not rich.Rich people may dress casually ,but the sweater costs 2k.As for H&H,those guns are owned by someone.That same person pays the salary of the guys showing the guns,along with the high rent.It is in their interest of survival to exclude.

Shootaway,
Have you checked your blood pressure lately?

Who really cares if a sweater costs 2k. Does that make it any better than one that costs $100 dollars, I doubt it.
Anyone that wears a sweater that costs 2k is either got more money than they know what to do with
are screaming for attention, hey look at me,
or are retarded and think it is actually better.

Although there is nothing wrong with people having their teeth fixed.
Seems like so many people here in Kentucky forget to do that.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Hard working people who have money dress up and have their teeth fixed.People who deprive themselves of everything,ctitisize everyone else on how they spend all their money,reach 70 and have a million dollar property are not rich.Rich people may dress casually ,but the sweater costs 2k.As for H&H,those guns are owned by someone.That same person pays the salary of the guys showing the guns,along with the high rent.It is in their interest of survival to exclude.

I DEFINITELY disagree with you. I know more than a few guys (usually people who grew up during the depression) with insane amounts of money who would never consider something like a $2000 sweater. One guy I know started his own company in college and has made a fortune. Yet, due to his upbringing, spends money in very interesting ways. He will buy only used cars and drives them into the ground, sent his brilliant kids to public universitys for their undergrad education (then Ivy's for grad school where it mattered), and I'm not sure I have ever seen him in a really nice suit. He didn't scrimp and save for his millions but I would definitely count him as "rich" even by U.S. standards. If he walked into H&H and they pulled the "exclusive" bullshit that you think is "good business", they would be making a HUGE mistake.

John

I remember reading Made in America by Sam Walton.There is someone Who most agree made alot of money.What I find ridiculous is that he says what JTG just said.Grew up in the depression,buys his clothes at Walmart,drives an old pick-up which he uses to carry his dogs in etc...Then he goes on to say he even buys his AIRPLANES used! I said somewhere before on AR about everyone being a SICKO.Look at yourself John,you have to fly to the Yukon to shoot a Mammoth.Many consider that nuts.Jarrod,money was made to spend.Everyone has their way of spending it.If I had millions,I would be living on a Yatch year round,screwing the sexiest bitches,wearing 5000 dollar suits,eating the best foods,visiting the most beautiful places,and build a palace that would put the Taj Mahal to shame.

Shootaway,

I'm not sure I understand your post but I think we agree that...YES everyone is crazy when it comes to money and everyone has their own priorities. I prefer to spend stupid sums of money to hunt rather than invest or engage in other "rational" activities. I know people who do the same but with a focus on cars, planes, or homes. People who grew up or survived the Great Depression are doubly strange when it comes to money. I saw a professor's father who was this way. He had more pensions and investments generating income than either he or his children could ever hope to spend. When he died however, they found piles of alumninum foil, balls of rubber bands and stacks of the wooden clothes pins in his basement. He always drove decent cars and dressed fine but his savings and spending habits had been profoundly impacted by what he saw growing up.

Interestingly, they also found coffee cans full of silver dollars in drawers and, believe it or not, metal band-aid boxes stuffed with cash between the studs of his walls. He could definitely have purchased best-grade rifles from any maker but would NEVER have appeared as though he could have afforded them.

The real question here is, "Are high dollar gun stores rational from a business perspective when they discriminate on the basis of appearance or the car a customer drives up in". To answer that question, let me relay a story told to me by an Idaho relative. A friend of his (an old Potato farmer) walked into a Cadillac dealership wearing his dirty overalls and muddy boots. No one would help him or even ask if he needed a cup of coffee for the longest time so he pulled out his keys and put a nice long scratch down the full length of a pricey Sedan De Ville. Salesmen scrambled to run over and stop him and ask him what the hell he thought he was doing. He simply said, "Boys, now that I have your attention, I would like to pay cash right now for this car....but your shop is gonna fix the scratch"!

Best,

John

In my personal experience both the people in the beretta and the h&h showroom in new york are nicer than hell, went into both of them 2 years ago (age 20) at the time and shot the shit, spent about 1 hour at h&h and didn't buy anything, then went to beretta and spent about an hour and a half talking with the salesman upstairs. I did end up buying a nice 20 gauge 28 gauge shotgun set, but I wasn't planning on doing it and when i first walked in I was wearing running shoes a t shirt and jeans and was with one other friend my same age... I was extremely impresed by the beretta salesmans patience even though my friend asked about 20 minutes worth of stupid questions about silencers and machine guns... And would definitively buy from them again or just stop by to shoot the shit.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnTheGreek:

The real question here is, "Are high dollar gun stores rational from a business perspective when they discriminate on the basis of appearance or the car a customer drives up in".

JTG

I think you actually need to read the posts in this thread. Only one member has said they had less than satisfactory service. Most posters, most of whom seem to be ordinary enough guys and not seriously buying seem to have got exemptlary service and attention. Which is obviously the way for these shops to do it.

I think your "discrimination" comment is from your own pre-conceived biases.

Just curious,the guys that saw and held those bolt rifles,are they much better than your ordinary Remington or Winchester?Is there a big difference in quality?

Shootaway,

They appear beautiful.
The should operate perfectly.
They should be maintained well.
They should last, performing at the highest standsards, baring an odd ball event like an ellie stepping on one, till Christ returns, even if that is another 2000 years from now. (I hope he does not wait that long!)

"...that same person pays the salary of the guys showing the guns,along with the high rent. It is in their interest of survival to exclude"

I was responding to the above quote. I don't see much of a practical difference between the terms "exclude" and "discriminate" if the exclusion is based on an invidious distinction between customers. I also agree, from personal experience, that high dollar shops are not usually going to "exclude" those who only appear unable to afford the product being sold.

Best,

John

I have been in the H&H gunroom in London a couple of times and always been very well treated. I liked the old shop better (pre-Chanel) and have a few trinkets I bought there (including the cap I wear in my avatar). I also bought a few very nice second hand books in the basement, they don't sell old sporting books there any more. So much for Chanel. Still, I would never miss their gunroom when I visit London. And no, I don't think I will ever afford a Holland and Holland gun, and don't pretend it either, but I was still very well treated. Last time I was invited to see the gunroom without asking myself.

Regards,
Martin

When I was 21 and still had all my hair , I was home from the Navy on leave in Casper, WY and me and my father went into a dingy smoke filled pawnshop to look for something interesting to trade for.

The guy was a fat beareded loudmouth, but he was really into Weatherbys. In fact he had about 20-30 new ones in his rack.

I asked him if I could look at one and he told me my father could. I asked him why, and he said it was a Weatherby worth $1500 dollars!

At the time I was pretty put off, but now I just realize he was a complete idiot. About 3 months earlier I had bought my father a Steyr-Mannlicher Luxus that was close to a $3500 rifle.

Mark Basner once told me, you treat everyone like the same money or not. You want to continue to stay in business. Those young guys that want your rifles at 20 can usually afford them at 30. 10 years is nothing.

I know someone who is probably the most succesful gun saleman/gunshop owner in Canadarobably sold a gun to every hunter in this entire province.He has sold guns to me and my family and friends.He hs been selling guns for over 50 yrs.I believe he has developed a sense as to when a sale is going down,and when someone has dropped in to throw the bull or to pass some time.He is often heard saying "I am very busy" He has avoided talking to me or showing me rifles when he knows I just dropped by for a pound of powder and some bullets.I say to myself he is just tired.That doesn't stop me from returning.One thing that does is a price that is not competitive.Even if his price is a little more expensive I still go.I feel I am supporting a real good business person.About H&H,there is exlusion going on,when they choose their showroonm in manhatten,not making their rifles available in most publications,choosing who will be allowed to sell their rifles,the quality offered etc...

quote:

I know someone...

shootaway...how well do you really 'know' Rxxx?

Rxxx is one of the more knowledgeable gun shop owners around. He also knows how to sell. He's in touch with his customers. Rxxx would never turn any potential customer away. He's also located close to his customer base as is H&H. Neither have turned me away nor have they avoided talking to me no matter what I was wearing.

Canadian Lefty,no one is going to turn anyone away if they sense you want to buy a rifle.