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. Simply on ivory weight what constitutes a good shooter of an ele in todays terms? I know there are huge differences between Bots ele and Caprivi ele and Valley ele et cetera. And leaving aside the actual hunt and walking hundreds of miles in the sun, mock charges, angry cows and all. If you are looking at a trophy ele bull hunt what would you pull the trigger on nowadays to make that good trophy bull ? . "Up the ladders and down the snakes!" | ||
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No experience hunting ele, so what do I know? I do recall hearing some old time pros shooting for 30-35 lbs and up. If Nyshens would take a 40 lb’er, I reckon I could hang my hat on 50 lbs. Literally | |||
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In my experience, it wholly depends on where. I hunted Botswana, NG41 for my one and only Jumbo. I shot, mid-day on day 2. We had already walked up to ~15 bulls, all in the 50# range by then. Min was 59 & 60. if I a guy was patient, I believe in an area like NG41 or the Delta units, a 70 is entirely possible on a 14 day hunt. That may not be possible in some Zimbabwe or Tanzania area's. As an aside, when I hunted CAR, we stayed at Erik Mararv's father home the arrival day. He had photo's of the real forest giants we've all heard about. Multiple 100#. Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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50lb ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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For a very long time, a 50 lb bull has been a good one in many areas. Botswana obviously changed all that, but still today, a 50 lb bull is pretty good in lots of places. That said, there are places today where a fellow stands a good chance of killing a very large bull, not just in Botswana but also Namibia, Zimbabwe, some areas in Tanzania and Mozambique (if you are OK with not bringing your ivory home). The key is knowing where specific blocks are that tend to produce big ivory and WHEN. Many of these areas have typical size prospects during most of the year but for certain windows of time the chance for big ivory goes up significantly. I’ve been looking at doing another elephant hunt in a few years, specifically focused on taking a bull bigger than my larger bull, which was a 58x54 from Deka many years ago. Still researching options but one thing has become very clear to me - I’ll probably be hunting early in March-April or late from mid-September to mid-November. In a few areas, at the right time of year and with enough time dedicated to the search, a bull from 70-90 lbs is possible with a little luck and patience. | |||
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I have no idea, but my impression is that 100lbs were pretty rare always, but 50lbs are more common even today. I know plenty of people who have shot 50lbs elephants (incl myself), but it was always rare to get a 100lbs elephant it seems. Best regards, Dennis | |||
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In my mind, there is a huge difference between a good sized elephant and an exceptional one. From a hunting probability standpoint I’d think getting something over 70# is the equivalent of the 100# bull of the golden age. You need to hunt in an area known for big elephant and put a lot of time and shoe leather in for that. A 50# bull today is a good trophy, if the bull is old and on its last set of teeth. Again, though, the “trophy” category is really up to the hunter. If you worked your tail off, and shoot an ancient 35# broken tusked bull that you are happy touching your tusks and remembering your hunt, that is what the real trophy is. | |||
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For the record, I would never equate my recent 50# bull to a 100# bull in the old days. In my opinion, a 50# bull is a solid trophy, but nothing spectacular or out of the ordinary. (However, all bulls are special when you are holding the ivory!) Sure, location makes a difference, and many places in Zim, for instance, a 50# bull is top end or even beyond reasonable. With adequate time and the ability to walk, I don't think it is a particularly high bar in many other locations, but still a solid trophy. Some days I think we all get too hung up on the numbers. Sure, I want to shoot bigger ivory, who doesn't. But if 5-10 pounds of ivory makes your hunting experience different, one way or the other, you might want to re-examine your priorities. And without getting simply lucky, areas that routinely produce bulls of 70# or more are considerably more expensive that other "average" areas. Go figure. Bill | |||
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yes and the haut chinko was known for those heavy ones like tchad as well but the yaringas and poachers from sudan kill it all ... | |||
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i shared a bunch of campfires with shooters of #100lbs but they did that in the 50s and 60s mostly and seen only the end of it shamefully poachers used helicopters and 12.7mm to get the ivory ... | |||
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Hunting CAR was truly an amazing experience. The extreme contrast between the Bako's and the Savanna's and those contrasts being merely a few feet apart, needs to be experienced to be fully understood. The Chinko; We spent a few days down on the Chinko river hunting Roan. Coming home late one evening, Erik told us at the dinner table that the CIA had landed on his airstrip and came into camp. They were looking for Joseph Kony and his LRA. Come to find out, the LRA had taken 3 American hostages (IIRC)very near where we were hunting. We were driving one afternoon from Mbare camp to Bongo camp. We came head to head with a string of Sudanese Poachers riding donkeys. There were 5-6 of em if I recall. Some had AK's. They were the fiercest looking men I'd even seen. As we passed, I made eye contact with them. All of em' nodded their heads as kind of an acknowledgement of one another, as we went by. After that I told Mike (Fell) "Man, I'd have loved to have pictures of those guys". Mike told me they likely would have been fine with that had we stopped. I've hunted pretty much everything, everywhere and nothing stands out in my mind like CAR did. It wasn't poached out when I was there. Just Elephants. there was plenty of everything. Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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I have only hunted elephants in Zimbabwe, since 1982. I have shot many, sometimes more than one in a year. Biggest one was 57 pounds. Rest were smaller or no tusks at all. | |||
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i meant they kill all the elephants. the viande de brousse by local poachers was nothing and yes it was the paradise on earth. | |||
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Steve, sometime after you hunted with Erik, Scott Limmer was hunting with him and they ran into the LRA out in the forest. A running gun battle ensued and miraculously neither Erik or Scott was hit but Erik’s truck looked like Swiss Cheese from what I was told. They got to a village where he got on Sat Phone and called Ripcord. The next day a column of heavily armed mercenaries arrived, loaded him up and got him to a clearing where a helicopter evacuated him back to Bangui. Then they got him on a jet and got him out of the country. Scott told me later that the biggest surprise was getting a shipment 6 months later that contained his bongo! | |||
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been evacuated 3 times to bangui and everytime it was the legion but it was before ripcord ... | |||
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It comes as a surprise, with a dab of irony to boot, that 50/60lb Elephants are considered fair game but to some individuals, those with a sense of conservation, seem to think it is the proper thing to do to walk away from that elusive 100 pounder so it may continue to spread its genes. A 50/60lb Elephant is an adult bull at around 35/40 years, still in its prime and spreading its genes at the first opportunity and assuming the quality of genes will carry to the next generation that is good and well though one also has to consider those of the recipient.  A 100lb Elephant on the other hand will be well into his 60s and very likely to be on his last legs; procreation will be a difficult task for him to accomplish for a number of reasons: the sheer weight of his ivory will be cumbersome in achieving his goal and the ever present younger bulls will not take kindly to his antics but let's give him some benefit of doubt that he might slip one in from time to time. Fact still remains that during his prime this 100lb Elephant has inseminated scores upon scores of females and his genes have already been fairly well distributed hopefully to produce males with a tendency to produce heavy ivory as his father. What makes him so special today other than having one of these few remaining giants available for the photographic crowd to ogle and goggle at and be given a name? | |||
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True story. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Depends on area. In northern Zim, a 50# has always been a nice trophy; but in Bots, you'll see lots of 50#. Science has proven that tusk size doesn't always equate to age, and genetics plays a big part. In some areas, genetics are getting worse. Zim has an elephant overpopulation, and they seem to want more cows hunted rather than bulls. As of right now, a tuskless cow is cheaper than a buffalo or sable in Zim, and they are not shy about big quotas on cows. | |||
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Consider both the price and the overall hunting experience. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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That's an amazing story. The hunting tales that come from that region of Africa are mind blowing. I'm sure you heard about them (Erik) supposedly killing some illegal miners and being jailed for an extended period? Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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I've got a pair of Bots bulls, 63x60 and 60x58 and to me that is a great trophy. I will be back in Wanke, Deka are late summer and if i see a 50 pounder, I will not hesitate. Dan, I love the Ele bulls in Deka, Wanke and area bordering Botswana. I have shot 5 bulls in this general area in 2011 and 2012. Did not know you had been there. York, SC | |||
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Buzz Charlton has stated that the average 30 to 35lb bull taken in the Zambesi Valley is on the young side and probably at peak breeding age. The problem with a moratorium on such bulls for 20 years or so is the loss of income and meat for the community and operators. I have argued before on this forum that if we were all serious about conserving and improving the species we would only be shooting the very young bulls that cause all the trouble with crop raiding or the truly ancient bulls with their face shrunken in and tusks often broken. The hunt experience for genetically inferior animals can be just as exciting as hunting for genetically superior beasts as any experienced European hunter will agree. Few PHs would be thrilled to be faced with a regulations requiring them to accurately age an elephant bull as being less than 25 or more than 50 years old. It would only work if the clients refused to hunt breeding age bulls. In the meantime, as I know few will agree with me, I will carry on looking for tuskless cows next month. Part of the problem is old fashioned government regulations in countries like Zambia where the cost of culling a tuskless cow is the same as taking a 60lb bull. Being a hypocrite I know which I would shoot under those regulations! | |||
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