The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Would you tell a bad outfitter why you won't hunt with them?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I am shopping for another hunt in Africa and have thinned the options to about 4 different outfits. One outfit came up with exactly what I want for the trip: free range hunting, agreeing to hunt hard for my priority animal, offer extra days if necessary, great prices, extra animals at an even bigger discount. Just an absolutely great deal. Doing my research on the company, I see reports of them getting caught hunting illegally in other countries and other unethical behavior in the recent past. Would you just stop communicating with them or would you tell them exactly why you wouldn't book with them? Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | ||
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Just move on. Nothing good will come out of you calling them out. They will just deny it. And who knows who they know. Some random dude in America isn't gonna change their tune. Plus, who needs a Lacey Act conviction? Hunting: Exercising dominion over creation at 2800 fps. | |||
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I tell people who have outfits which I find interesting that I am sorry and I like to hunt with the fellows I hunt with which I consider friends or that I am not interested in fenced or ranch areas.I still stay friendly with them and I follow there web page from time to time.I would not approach any organization or individual who is associated with fraud or worst things.I may overlook a little deviance after all no one or almost no one is an angel but nothing serious. | |||
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You said it George I like that " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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Yes, yes he did. Dutch | |||
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I will go somewhere else. As I will never be sure that what they promised me is actually going to be delivered. And I will tell them exactly why I am avoiding them. This is the sort of company who do not deserve our business. | |||
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To be clear, I will not book a hunt with them. I was just curious about what people thought about telling them why. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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I would tell them exactly why | |||
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Frank tell them exactly why. Phil | |||
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Personally, I don't believe its worth the agitation to get in to a big argument with them. I just tell them I am not interested, thanks for your time and leave it at that. Who knows, the poor schmuck on the phone may be someone you need to deal with later, and I am sure that outfitters talk about clients as well. I see no need to get into a pissing match with someone and get them mad at me when it will make no difference in what happens (ie I am not buying a hunt regardless of what he says.) I do violate this at times when someone will not leave me alone once I have told them that I am not interested... So far, this has only been Blair Worldwide. On the other hand, I do tell my friends when asked about the issues I have head about, that might make a difference, but telling an employee will not. Face it, either someone has integrity or they do not. Telling them that they screwed someone and that is why I will not deal with them only tells them that I am aware of the issue, not that they didn't know of the issue themselves in the first place. Someone without integrity will often blame someone else instead and you just stepped into their crosshairs. | |||
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crbutler nailed it as far as I'm concerned. "There are worse memorials to a life well-lived than a pair of elephant tusks." Robert Ruark | |||
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To good to be true. Don't know how often I have to say it but I believe ARs hunt report section is one of the best references on the planet. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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The reality is that clients will always be the first to complain even in instances where they do not have any grounds to (and as we have seen even here on AR, there are many such instances), whereas the service provider rarely has the avenue to air any complaints about their customer. Furthermore, a customers word is usually believed ahead of the service providers'. Distinguishing who is right and who is wrong can be a nightmare. But the service provider will often end up the loser either way.... "...Them, they were Giants!" J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset | |||
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Just move on. | |||
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In any circumstance where a service provider is involved, the rule of thumb most always gives the paying client the benefit of the doubt. Its called PR. | |||
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Why bother explaining anything? They know exactly what they have done, and informing them that you know about it (or at least some of it) does nothing constructive. When I get one of those surveys in an email, asking for information so that the business in question can "serve our customers better", I never fill it in. Why should I help them for free? In the case of a known shady operator, what will you achieve...spurring them to better conceal their transgressions, perhaps? The only explanation I would offer, if asked, is that I have chosen to spend my money elsewhere. | |||
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I feel that it depends on how certain you are of the information you have on their transgressions, if you personally know the people involved, then you should tell them that, although your dealings so far have been perfectly pleasant, that you share a common acquaintance who has had a negative experience, and that given the relationship with one party is stronger than with the other, that you will not be booking with them. Don’t go into details or accusations, they will know what you are talking about, and if you can remain civil it shouldn’t compromise your reputation either. | |||
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I guess it all depends upon your reason for not booking. Two years ago when I was looking for a non exportable bull elephant hunt an outfitter in RSA with a good reputation as a plains game operation offered me a hunt. We exchanged a few emails, and I asked how large a property we would be hunting and it's exact location. Turns out the property was only 5,000 acres along the Limpopo River and dependent upon elephants crossing the river from Botswana. I told him I wouldn't even hunt plains game on a property that small let alone Elephants. He wasn't very happy but it wasn't anything personal. It just wasn't the kind of hunt I wanted. Tom Z NRA Life Member | |||
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I will give thousands of dollars to friends or people I have hunted with before on a handshake alone. New ones I trust, but verify. You never know if you can trust them until you trust them. I have no problem telling someone exactly what my feelings and thoughts are, then moving on. | |||
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I think it's more important to question why you thought they were good, before someone straightened you out. I personally would be more concerned with my own poor judgment. | |||
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In this case I was shopping for hunts, visiting websites and checking out properties and prices. Then in emails to ask for details and updated pricing I received their best offers. Then I did an internet search on reviews of their company I came across news articles and posts on this site and other sites outlining instances where the company was caught hunting illegally in other countries, taking American hunters to illegally seized lands and offering illegal ration hunts in foreign National Parks. I checked with a couple of PHs from the company's home country and the country they were hunting illegally in and they told me that they were satisfied with the accuracy of the reports on the company's illegal operations. So since I have not accepted their offer, I thought that I would ask on here whether I should tell them my reasons for not hunting with them. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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To answer your original question I would just break communications and leave it at that. If they pressed the issue and asked why you are no longer communicating then you have a choice. 1) Just say you decided on a different outfitter. 2) Tell them the negative info you found and then tell them you found another outfitter. I suspect they know the info is out there for those that do their due diligence. Cheers Jim ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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My view, too. | |||
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I just move on. There's no point in getting into a debate once I'm no longer interested. Picture the conversation: I am not interested in hunting with you because: You are a crook; your hunts are canned; Your former clients don't like you, the experience, or the hunt; fill in a negative. He'll disagree and we'll get into a debate; not likely a nice one. What is that likely to accomplish? He's not going to change and I'm not going to change my mind. | |||
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I look at it a little differently than most here. I see no reason to not tell them that I won't hunt with them because of their past illegal activities. They need to know that there are consequences for their illegal hunts. 465H&H | |||
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I'm with 465. I see no reason to not tell them why I've chosen to hunt with someone else. The truth hurts sometimes, that's just the way it is. | |||
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Ya'll make a good point. And it's not like I'm trying to make friends and influence people at that point. Couple of minutes of my time and then walk away if they try to explain themselves. Not much time lost. | |||
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Not sure what telling them would accomplish....naming them here would accomplish something, though. Antlers Double Rifle Shooters Society Heym 450/400 3" | |||
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As an outfitter i would appreciate at least a call that said i have decided to book elswhere. I just had a group of three drop of the face of the earth. We had 7 phone calls were we discussed everything and added an extra guy and set dates. I mailed the contract and now havent heard from for three weeks. I cant get messages returned or emails. I know i have never been charged or even accused of any wrong doing and i cant find any negative reveiws out there on me. I am now looking for another group to take that week. I feel bad if it is some weird thing and two weeks from now they call back and i have rebooked that week. My point is from this side it would be nice to hear the thanks but no thanks message. | |||
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Hntnhrd: They probably have nothing bad to say but only feel bad about taking so much of your time and then backing out. I agree that common courtesy would require a return call and under this circumstance at least a bit of an explanation. If I was in your shoes, I'd move on. No signed contract -- no reservation of dates and no apologies if they come back. You have a calendar to fill. And if they can't understand that, you really don't want to do business with them. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Would you tell a bad outfitter why you won't hunt with them?
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