I have been involved in two lively debates on the forum recently about "distance to shoot dangerous game" and "stopping rifles".
With these in mind I would like to add some video supporting my view.
The first is a side on brain shot performed by my hunting companion and Buzz Charlton .Hunter was under 20yds and using a 458 Lott.The video could be better but the animal drops onto its feet at the shot then rolls over.Why you would dilute this experience by long range shooting baffles me.
Elephant with 458 Lott

The next two video's are of me and Alan Shearing.I am using my 500 double. It is the same kill viewed by different cameras.We were lucky enough to have two camera men on the day.Please note the time taken between shot one and two during which period I have recovered from the recoil of the 500,reaimed on the now moving skull,and properly brained the elephant.There may be some men who could accomplish this feat with a comparable bolt gun(500 Jeff.etc) but I most certainly not one of them.I will not brag I am even good enough to be considered an ordinary shot but with a little practice down at the clay taget club with a twin trigger shotgun it is easy.I feel under these conditions a double is far superior to a bolt.
I fired both shots,Alan did not fire his rifle.
500 double one
500 double two

Over to the forum for discussion.

A couple interesting videos but not sure they prove anything of note, except a couple things I wouldn't admit! Sorry, just my opinion.

Take care.

They certainly prove a point Bill,

That if the brain is hit, it makes no difference what caliber is used.

If it is not, it makes no difference either.

I am adding one buffalo clip to my list on the Video Album thread.

Poor thing was shot with lowly 375, the minimum caliber. Still, she dropped like a wet sack of potatoes

quote:

Still, she dropped like a wet sack of potatoes clap

Just how many wet sacks of potatoes have you shot anyway?!

You have to ask Roy Vincent.

Apparently a wet sack of potato drops down very fast, hence comparing it to that elephant.

This only applies to real hunters, who use just one barrel.

It is not very sporting, not to mention ethical, to use two barrels.

After all, you really want to give the animal SOME chance of killing you

Dear Saeed,
In the video where I am shooting it illustrates,
rather conclusively,that a heavy rifle(~500) will produce a profound effect on an elephant WHEN THE BRAIN IS JUST MISSED.The general comments from all in attendance at the time was (as stated previously)"If that was a 375 you would have been shooting it up the arse rather than the head with the second shot".Surely you can agree with that conclusion?

You forgot distance.

You and Ray have been shooting those wet sacks of potatoes at great distances, haven't you? Admit it.

I do not doubt, though, the stopping power of a souped up 375 on a medium sized russet Idaho potato.

Dear Will,
Perhaps you have hit on it.
This discussion ,deep down,is really about the size of your potatoes,not if they are wet or not.

quote:

Originally posted by wombat:
Dear Saeed,
In the video where I am shooting it illustrates,
rather conclusively,that a heavy rifle(~500) will produce a profound effect on an elephant WHEN THE BRAIN IS JUST MISSED.The general comments from all in attendance at the time was (as stated previously)"If that was a 375 you would have been shooting it up the arse rather than the head with the second shot".Surely you can agree with that conclusion?

I have shot an elephant and missed the brain, he dropped down and I was able to give him another shot.

Again, with only a 375.

My experience with "those in attendance" is that they will tell the client what they think he wants to hear.

quote:

My experience with "those in attendance" is that they will tell the client what they think he wants to hear.

Except for Roy.

I hate you, too. Now you have cast doubts in my mind that when Buzz told me he loved me as the best elephant hunter ever, might be, however slight, an exaggeration.

quote:

Except for Roy

I know, I know. As far as he is concerned, a client can never do anything RIGHT! At least I could not do anything right.

He was always nice to Walter though!

We've had Alan miss taking a video of something becuase he could not stop shaking from laughing. He would say "can you two be nice to each other for a change?"

He is still dreaming of that happening!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
You have to ask Roy Vincent.

Apparently a wet sack of potato drops down very fast, hence comparing it to that elephant.

This only applies to real hunters, who use just one barrel.

It is not very sporting, not to mention ethical, to use two barrels.

After all, you really want to give the animal SOME chance of killing you

Man do I feel like a fish out of water on this one! However, when I win the LOTTO for a few million I'm gonna book a whole summer, and do nothing but shoot elephant in every country where they are legal to hunt to catch up with you guys. I'll use the 375 H&H, 450/400NE 3", and 500 NE so I can talk with some background. I'd bet, however, that my opinions will still be dismissed as have no experience to back them up!

That's alright though and I'll have a barn full of ivory anyway.

quote:

I'd bet, however, that my opinions will still be dismissed as have no experience to back them up!

Why should you be treated any differently than all of us?

If you think winning the LOTTO is going to give you a special status here at AR you are dreaming my friend

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
[QUOTE]My experience with "those in attendance" is that they will tell the client what they think he wants to hear.

"Except for Roy."

That's for sure. I can remember shooting various animals that dropped within sight, and Roy would point out how my shot could have been better, if I'd only have put it 'here', which was usually only a few inches from where the bullet entered.

As for long distance shooting with Roy, never gonna happen. Roy loves to crawl your butt right into a herd and get very up close and personal with those buffalo and jumbos. I've shot two elephants and four buffalo with Roy, and five of those animals were shot at less than 30 yards, with one elephant and two buffalo at less than 15 yards.

If you want to get up close and personal, Roy is the guy to hunt with.

I was hoping for a little more fire in the debate.

quote:

Originally posted by wombat:
I was hoping for a little more fire in the debate.

Everything that had happened to you on those video has happened to many of us, so you won't get any heated debate from me on them.

But, if you REALLY want to see down-your-throat-what-a-silly-thing-to-do debate, on your next elephant hunt you might wish to spear him.

You will get REAL close for that.

And I can assure you I will lead the heated debate

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

I'd bet, however, that my opinions will still be dismissed as have no experience to back them up!

Why should you be treated any differently than all of us?

If you think winning the LOTTO is going to give you a special status here at AR you are dreaming my friend

Status is not something I need, but the money would allow me to catch up a little with those who have hunted Elephant. MY bag on elephant at this time is - ZERO, and not likely to change if I don't win the LOTTO.

quote:

Originally posted by wombat:
I was hoping for a little more fire in the debate.

Sorry, but, almost overwhealmingly, everyone agrees that they would prefer to shoot DG at close range rather than from a distance.

The difference is that some will take an opportunity at DG from greater distances when closing the gap is not a reasonable option.

There is not much to debate in that. It comes down to the hunters own personal choice.

So ,it seems ,you all agree a double is infinitely more useful (as I do)?

quote:

Originally posted by wombat:
So ,it seems ,you all agree a double is infinitely more useful (as I do)?

I certainly don't!

And judging by how many people use bolt action rifles, they don't either