This is perhaps the best testimony one can get from a PH that earns his bread and butter from hunting ... and using Rhino bullets. I now quote him on an e-mail sent to Rhino Bullets ... (and this is why Kobus is selling 600,000 bullets per annum)

"----- Original Message -----
From: Jan Viljoen
To: rhbullet@mweb.co.za
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 2:40 PM
Subject: Form Post from Firefox


Comments = I have hunted with Rhino bullets for most of my Professional Hunting career (10years+), using 243, 7 x 57, 93x62 and 375 calibre rifles, shooting a variety of game from common Duiker to Buffalo. At no stage did I have anything other than superb accuracy and penetration, giving me and my clients quick clean kills. Excellent wound channel and very little damage to the meat/venison. This is a product that I can recommend without the slightest hesitation. Better than anything i have ever used before and that includes well known brand names. Congratulations Kobus and team.


Jan Viljoen
Telephone=+27 82 373 24 38
Fax=+27 53 861 54 98
Email=jwv@intekom.co.za "

Warrior

Warrior

Most of the variation was straight up and down, may lend a hand to different dia. bullets causing more or less pressure and subsequently higher or lower velocities with the same load. Used two different loads with two different powders, both fresh tins purchased at Botha Vuurwapens in Vryburg at the same time as the bullets. Duppie keeps fresh stock so I cant see it being powder or primer related. The same powders and primers delivered excellent groups with both GS and PMP heads.

Like I said, the appearance of the bullets was suspect to start with, they all had varying shaped lead tips and nothing looked uniform. To sum them up they looked plain untidy.
I had very high hopes for them so the disappointment was great.

With regards to my blaming it on the bullet I do 100%. I have been reloading that rifle with various bullets for the past 13 years. It has a 22inch bull barrel and a timney trigger, free floated in an armtec synthetic stock. If you can find me a way to shoot a 12 inch group with normal ammo on that rifle off of sand bags then I will give it to you. It simply does not happen. Using necksized reprimed cases and powder scoop loads it shoots the worst of the worst Hornady 130gr flat based crap into a 2" group at 100m.

If they have improved, I think that is great. But I wont easily waste any more money on them.

quote:

Warrior,

I have contacted Mr.vd Westhuizen and he will check his sales records if he still has them from 2002-2003 and get back to me.He agreed that someone might have tampered with them or a gremlin might have snuck in.It happens...

Cheers,
Mbuyu

Dear Sir,

Kobus asked me to post this for him on AR, since this matter was brought up here ....

AR Readers,

I have received a phone call for Paul Olivier stating that he wrote the letter referring to the complaint about my bullets. He stated that he bought these bullets back in late 2002 or early in 2003. It so happens that we started using pastel booking system in November 2002. I went back in my records and could not find him as a customer as late as Nov 2002. If he bought before I do not have those details on hand, as we had outside bookkeeping services doing our books manually and these records do not exist anymore as they are over 5 years old. Since going on to the Pastel bookkeeping, I have all records available since Nov 2002. I myself cannot remember having any dealings with him.

1. What I find very strange in both cases of over size bullets was that these bullets were not returned for a refund or for me to measure. As I guarantee all my bullets, I do the selling myself.

2. That some how these bullets had grown to a bigger size than what my swaging dies are, cannot be. For those of you that do not know how swaging works, I will give a short explanation.

Bullets are cut under size they are then swaged into the bullet shape under pressure in a bullet die which is 0.02mm (0.25thou) over standard size. They then go through a set of 3 finishing dies which draw them down to size required. So the maximum size the 375 could be if they did not go through a finishing die is 9.55mm (0.376inch) safe to use in any 375.

Just for the record every bullet gets measured in the packing process. We have boards with 20 – 25 – 50 and 100 holes in them. When we pack we have a mounted micrometer which is set at CIP spec, and each bullet is checked for flaws and put through the micrometer, and then into the board once the holes are full of bullets, they are emptied into a plastic bag and put into the boxes. Thereby insuring that bullet diameters are not mixed and bullets are under CIP spec.

As for Shakari’s story, again these bullets grew to more than 0.02mm (0.25 thou) over die size. The only way this can happen is if someone tampered with these bullets (put them in a vice and give them a light squeeze this will bring there size up by what ever thou you want.) the question is, was this done in my factory or people that have an ulterior motive. I will leave that up to the reader to decide, as for the wonderful penetration only a fool will believe that a soft nose bullet did not deform or open after penetrating a Buff plus 1 ½ tree. You must think every one on this site is an idiot.

I ask again why these bullets were not returned for a refund and for me to measure as they are not cheap. The funniest thing of all is that this is the only complaint I have ever had about over size bullets, and imagine both of you belong to this site and both decided to write in. Real life is really funnier than fiction.

The fact that I get repetitive business with from clients, ensure that I listen to my customers, but then they have to come back to me – not 8 years later !!!

Kind regards

Kobus van der Westhuizen
Rhino Bullets
East London

quote:

Originally posted by Warrior:

Dear Sir,

Kobus asked me to post this for him on AR, since this matter was brought up here ....

AR Readers,

I have received a phone call for Paul Olivier stating that he wrote the letter referring to the complaint about my bullets. He stated that he bought these bullets back in late 2002 or early in 2003. It so happens that we started using pastel booking system in November 2002. I went back in my records and could not find him as a customer as late as Nov 2002. If he bought before I do not have those details on hand, as we had outside bookkeeping services doing our books manually and these records do not exist anymore as they are over 5 years old. Since going on to the Pastel bookkeeping, I have all records available since Nov 2002. I myself cannot remember having any dealings with him.

1. What I find very strange in both cases of over size bullets was that these bullets were not returned for a refund or for me to measure. As I guarantee all my bullets, I do the selling myself.

2. That some how these bullets had grown to a bigger size than what my swaging dies are, cannot be. For those of you that do not know how swaging works, I will give a short explanation.

Bullets are cut under size they are then swaged into the bullet shape under pressure in a bullet die which is 0.02mm (0.25thou) over standard size. They then go through a set of 3 finishing dies which draw them down to size required. So the maximum size the 375 could be if they did not go through a finishing die is 9.55mm (0.376inch) safe to use in any 375.

Just for the record every bullet gets measured in the packing process. We have boards with 20 – 25 – 50 and 100 holes in them. When we pack we have a mounted micrometer which is set at CIP spec, and each bullet is checked for flaws and put through the micrometer, and then into the board once the holes are full of bullets, they are emptied into a plastic bag and put into the boxes. Thereby insuring that bullet diameters are not mixed and bullets are under CIP spec.

As for Shakari’s story, again these bullets grew to more than 0.02mm (0.25 thou) over die size. The only way this can happen is if someone tampered with these bullets (put them in a vice and give them a light squeeze this will bring there size up by what ever thou you want.) the question is, was this done in my factory or people that have an ulterior motive. I will leave that up to the reader to decide, as for the wonderful penetration only a fool will believe that a soft nose bullet did not deform or open after penetrating a Buff plus 1 ½ tree. You must think every one on this site is an idiot.

I ask again why these bullets were not returned for a refund and for me to measure as they are not cheap. The funniest thing of all is that this is the only complaint I have ever had about over size bullets, and imagine both of you belong to this site and both decided to write in. Real life is really funnier than fiction.

The fact that I get repetitive business with from clients, ensure that I listen to my customers, but then they have to come back to me – not 8 years later !!!

Kind regards

Kobus van der Westhuizen
Rhino Bullets
East London

Kobus,

I can't speak for anyone else but the reason I didn't return them was because I was was due to fly to Tanzania the next day and couldn't buy any other bullets in time for my flight. I had no choice but to make them work by having an expert put them in a lathe and reduce them to the correct size.

I remember talking to you at the time and also remember you told me it couldn't be the bullets and that was pretty much the end of the conversation.

As for it not being possible for the bullets to be oversize..... impossible or not, mine were oversized and I even posted 2 pics of them being turned down on a lathe to make them the correct calibre.

Of course, there's always the possibility that my custom made .404 had an undersize barrel but I've bought several other makes of 404 bullets since then and they all fit just tickety boo.

As for your other theory...... yup, I'd really be likely to squeeze every bullet in a damn vice to change the shape of them for no good reason and when I have about 24 hours to go before taking a brand new rifle to Tanzania..... to say nothing of the fact that the pics I posted would show irregular machine marks if that were the case. As for a third party committing saboutage, if that were the case, I'd guess it must have been done in your factory because I seem to remember opening a sealed box.... might be wrong on that but I don't think so - I don't know who suggested that one to you but it's about as likely as the heat of the lowveld making then expand theory. Whoever suggested it, I bet his name wasn't Sherlock Holmes.

I should point out as I've previously stated that I really don't care what other people use and in fact, I don't even criticise them for their choice but having had the bad experience I had with Rhino bullets, I choose not to use them again.

All that said, a lot of the pics here prove you have a good design and I'm impressed by that..... but some of the comments would suggest (to me at least) some possible quality control issues.. at least in the past.

I wish you good luck with them though.

ADDED

I missed the penetration issue. Whether you like it or not, that's exactly what happened.

I'll also add that all the pics of dead animals (and indeed occasional, veiled personal insults) don't prove anything. No one is suggesting that the bullets don't ever work..... just that there appears to be some quality control issues.

Apart from the quality control thing, everything else is pointless at best.

Another success story by Jan Viljoen ...

"----- Original Message -----
From: Jan Viljoen
To: RHINO BULLETS
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 11:57 AM
Subject: 243 100 gr Rhino op 'n Gemsbok


On Friday 17 July 2009 a friend ask me to assist his son 13 years in hunting Gemsbuck. He used my 243 Sako Forrester loaded with 100gr Rhino bullets – 40 gr S365. Bryan took the shot at 110 meters, just behind the elbow. The Gemsbuck staggered around and around in circles for a few seconds and went down – dead as ‘n doornail. Upon skinning the animal the bullet was cut from the far shoulder underneath the skin. It went thru the ribs, vitals and far shoulder blade with incredible little damage to the meat and retain it is weight at 97.1 %. Well knowing the ability of the Rhino bullet I wasn’t really surprised but just to verify used a friends micro scale just to check – 97.1 % again.

I’ve been hunting with Rhino bullets on 243, 7mm, 93 x62 and 375 for almost 10 years now and they have never let me down. Used to the best bullets and well known brands I have hunted with clients from the US and Spain (sometimes using what they brought with) and nothing can compare when it comes to performance, availability, price. For once I can now also say “ proudly South African”. Congratulations Kobus and Team on a exceptional product.

Jan Viljoen
Professional Hunter
082 373 2438"

I smell a rat and I say bullsh*t!

I’ve dealt with Kobus for a decade. I’ve shot a lot of his bullets, in various calibers. I’ve been to his factory and have taken clients there to buy bullets “fresh of the press”. I’ve been to his home and I’ve collected bullets there. I’ve never known Kobus to be anything but frank, honest, humble and dedicated. In my dealings with him, Kobus have always asked more questions than he has made statements.

I’ve never had, or seen, any Rhino bullet fail. I’ve used them on various animals, ranging from steenbok to white rhino. I’ve heard from one very knowledgeable and experienced acquaintance that a Rhino bullet fail on one of the elephants he hunted. The elephant died and the recovered bullet did not match the picture perfect ideal.

I doubt that Kobus can walk on water. I’m sure that he has turned out and sold one or more bullets that might not have been absolutely perfect. I’ve used less than perfect bullets from other premier bullet manufacturers. I’ve not had a Rhino bullet perform in any (noticeable) less than satisfactory manner. I guess if I keep on hunting, I may.

I do believe that some of the Rhino critical posts made here are bona vide observations. I do believe other Rhino negative posts have been made with ulterior motives.

This so beautiful .... twin brothers and sisters !!!


"----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Sowry
To: rhbullet@mweb.co.za
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 9:26 AM
Subject: Recovered bullets

Hi Kobus,

Recovered bullets shown in photo as follows (from left to right):

458 – Swift AFrame, 500gr, wetpack
458 – Rhino 485gr, wetpack
416 – Rhino 430gr, wetpack
416 – Rhino 430gr, zebra
416 – Rhino 430gr, Buffalo
416 – Rhino 430gr, Buffalo
416 – Rhino 430gr, Buffalo
416 – Rhino 430gr, Buffalo
416 – Rhino 430gr, Buffalo
416 – Rhino 450gr, Buffalo
416 – Rhino 430gr, unfired
416 – Rhino 450gr, unfired

That 450gr 416 after first test appears to be perfect, velocity was about 2200ft/sec.
The velocity for the 430gr’s/ 416 was 2300ft/sec


Regards,
Richard Sowry"






Warrior

Are Rhino Bullets available in the US currently?

Allen

quote:

Originally posted by Warrior:

quote:

Warrior,

I have contacted Mr.vd Westhuizen and he will check his sales records if he still has them from 2002-2003 and get back to me.He agreed that someone might have tampered with them or a gremlin might have snuck in.It happens...

Cheers,
Mbuyu

Dear Sir,

Kobus asked me to post this for him on AR, since this matter was brought up here ....

AR Readers,

I have received a phone call for Paul Olivier stating that he wrote the letter referring to the complaint about my bullets. He stated that he bought these bullets back in late 2002 or early in 2003. It so happens that we started using pastel booking system in November 2002. I went back in my records and could not find him as a customer as late as Nov 2002. If he bought before I do not have those details on hand, as we had outside bookkeeping services doing our books manually and these records do not exist anymore as they are over 5 years old. Since going on to the Pastel bookkeeping, I have all records available since Nov 2002. I myself cannot remember having any dealings with him.

1. What I find very strange in both cases of over size bullets was that these bullets were not returned for a refund or for me to measure. As I guarantee all my bullets, I do the selling myself.

2. That some how these bullets had grown to a bigger size than what my swaging dies are, cannot be. For those of you that do not know how swaging works, I will give a short explanation.

Bullets are cut under size they are then swaged into the bullet shape under pressure in a bullet die which is 0.02mm (0.25thou) over standard size. They then go through a set of 3 finishing dies which draw them down to size required. So the maximum size the 375 could be if they did not go through a finishing die is 9.55mm (0.376inch) safe to use in any 375.

Just for the record every bullet gets measured in the packing process. We have boards with 20 – 25 – 50 and 100 holes in them. When we pack we have a mounted micrometer which is set at CIP spec, and each bullet is checked for flaws and put through the micrometer, and then into the board once the holes are full of bullets, they are emptied into a plastic bag and put into the boxes. Thereby insuring that bullet diameters are not mixed and bullets are under CIP spec.

As for Shakari’s story, again these bullets grew to more than 0.02mm (0.25 thou) over die size. The only way this can happen is if someone tampered with these bullets (put them in a vice and give them a light squeeze this will bring there size up by what ever thou you want.) the question is, was this done in my factory or people that have an ulterior motive. I will leave that up to the reader to decide, as for the wonderful penetration only a fool will believe that a soft nose bullet did not deform or open after penetrating a Buff plus 1 ½ tree. You must think every one on this site is an idiot.

I ask again why these bullets were not returned for a refund and for me to measure as they are not cheap. The funniest thing of all is that this is the only complaint I have ever had about over size bullets, and imagine both of you belong to this site and both decided to write in. Real life is really funnier than fiction.

The fact that I get repetitive business with from clients, ensure that I listen to my customers, but then they have to come back to me – not 8 years later !!!

Kind regards

Kobus van der Westhuizen
Rhino Bullets
East London

Dear Sir,

As to our conversation yesterday and the my posting you will note that I had contacted you back then and returned the bullets to you and you had sent me a new batch.You had also stated in our conversation that it is possible that someone in your factory might have made a mistake or tampered with them and this could not be ruled out.I had also assured you that I had not tampered with them myself in any way as I have no reason to try and discredit you or your product and I have only posted my personal experience with said product.I will try to go through any records that I still might have to see if I might still have any record of the transaction.

Kind Regards,

Paul Olivier

quote:

Originally posted by AllenBosely:
Are Rhino Bullets available in the US currently?

Allen

Yes, they are. You can purchase them here.

Sure looks like quite a bit more than a thou being turned off the bullet in Shakari's photo. The mark of material being removed is consistent over the 180 degrees that is visible, so that blasts the manufacturers' theory that "The only way this can happen is if someone tampered with these bullets (put them in a vice and give them a light squeeze this will bring there size up by what ever thou you want.) the question is, was this done in my factory or people that have an ulterior motive."

Taking cheap shots questioning the integrity of those who have had problems with a product says a lot about the manufacturer and their pimp.

quote:

Taking cheap shots questioning the integrity of those who have had problems with a product says a lot about the manufacturer and their pimp

WELL SAID

quote:

Originally posted by Vlam:

quote:

Taking cheap shots questioning the integrity of those who have had problems with a product says a lot about the manufacturer and their pimp

WELL SAID

+1

To say nothing of the fact that for a bullet manufacturer to suggest a .404 bullet that behaves like a solid couldn't penetrate the width of a buffalo and one and a half smallish trees displays (at least, in my opinion) a somewhat alarming lack of relevent practical experience of ballistics.

What strikes me as particularly odd is that a lot of guys here seem to interpret my and a few other's comments as saying the Rhino bullet's aren't any good at all and reply by posting umpteen pics of animals killed and/or recovered Rhino bullets as though they think that proves something.

We're not saying they don't ever work. What we're saying is that we had problems with the ones we bought which would indicate the quality control issues might need addressing.

It isn't the ones that work that have anything to do with this thread, it's the ones that don't work or don't fit.

IMO Kobus would be better advised to address his quality control problems rather than attacking his customers or ex customers.

Incidentally, I came across the empty box that held my problem bullets. It must be the same box because I've only ever bought the one box and FWIW, the batch number is: 55 162.

quote:

Originally posted by mbuyu:

quote:

Originally posted by Warrior:

quote:

Warrior,

I have contacted Mr.vd Westhuizen and he will check his sales records if he still has them from 2002-2003 and get back to me.He agreed that someone might have tampered with them or a gremlin might have snuck in.It happens...

Cheers,
Mbuyu

Dear Sir,

Kobus asked me to post this for him on AR, since this matter was brought up here ....

AR Readers,

I have received a phone call for Paul Olivier stating that he wrote the letter referring to the complaint about my bullets. He stated that he bought these bullets back in late 2002 or early in 2003. It so happens that we started using pastel booking system in November 2002. I went back in my records and could not find him as a customer as late as Nov 2002. If he bought before I do not have those details on hand, as we had outside bookkeeping services doing our books manually and these records do not exist anymore as they are over 5 years old. Since going on to the Pastel bookkeeping, I have all records available since Nov 2002. I myself cannot remember having any dealings with him.

1. What I find very strange in both cases of over size bullets was that these bullets were not returned for a refund or for me to measure. As I guarantee all my bullets, I do the selling myself.

2. That some how these bullets had grown to a bigger size than what my swaging dies are, cannot be. For those of you that do not know how swaging works, I will give a short explanation.

Bullets are cut under size they are then swaged into the bullet shape under pressure in a bullet die which is 0.02mm (0.25thou) over standard size. They then go through a set of 3 finishing dies which draw them down to size required. So the maximum size the 375 could be if they did not go through a finishing die is 9.55mm (0.376inch) safe to use in any 375.

Just for the record every bullet gets measured in the packing process. We have boards with 20 – 25 – 50 and 100 holes in them. When we pack we have a mounted micrometer which is set at CIP spec, and each bullet is checked for flaws and put through the micrometer, and then into the board once the holes are full of bullets, they are emptied into a plastic bag and put into the boxes. Thereby insuring that bullet diameters are not mixed and bullets are under CIP spec.

As for Shakari’s story, again these bullets grew to more than 0.02mm (0.25 thou) over die size. The only way this can happen is if someone tampered with these bullets (put them in a vice and give them a light squeeze this will bring there size up by what ever thou you want.) the question is, was this done in my factory or people that have an ulterior motive. I will leave that up to the reader to decide, as for the wonderful penetration only a fool will believe that a soft nose bullet did not deform or open after penetrating a Buff plus 1 ½ tree. You must think every one on this site is an idiot.

I ask again why these bullets were not returned for a refund and for me to measure as they are not cheap. The funniest thing of all is that this is the only complaint I have ever had about over size bullets, and imagine both of you belong to this site and both decided to write in. Real life is really funnier than fiction.

The fact that I get repetitive business with from clients, ensure that I listen to my customers, but then they have to come back to me – not 8 years later !!!

Kind regards

Kobus van der Westhuizen
Rhino Bullets
East London

Dear Sir,

As to our conversation yesterday and the my posting you will note that I had contacted you back then and returned the bullets to you and you had sent me a new batch.You had also stated in our conversation that it is possible that someone in your factory might have made a mistake or tampered with them and this could not be ruled out.I had also assured you that I had not tampered with them myself in any way as I have no reason to try and discredit you or your product and I have only posted my personal experience with said product.I will try to go through any records that I still might have to see if I might still have any record of the transaction.

Kind Regards,

Paul Olivier

Welcome to AR Paul.

Walter says hello.

He is asking me if I would take our 700 rifle hunting this year. Whe I asked him why he sais "So we can have a shooting contest between all the PH. Roy, Alan and Paul! Hahahaha! That is going to be so funny. Load the 1500 gainn bullet for them"

700

Roy and Alan are coming here next month, and I hope to see you in October.

Saeed

I think I have an explanation for what Steve experienced with Rhino bullets.

We got some 700 caliber bullets from DKT, and could not get them to load in our rifle.

We measured them and they were exactly 0.700 in diameter. Trouble was that this diameter extened too far forward for the bullet to chamber in our rifle.

We turned a bit off from the front half of the bullet, and all worked well.

Saeed,

It wasn't that I'm afraid as we had to machine down the entire length of the bullet rather than from the business end just down to the cannelure.

We obviously had to machine down to the cannelure and then turn the bullet around and machine the back end to the cannelure.

I can't for the life of me remember how much we had to take off but it was over a thou and could well have been considerably more..... but as you'll see from the pics, it was a significant amount. - I'm actually glad it was, because if I'd been able to close the bolt on them but they had still been oversized the consequences could have been very serious indeed.

Hi Saeed
very funny pictures now i understand why men needs circumcision for avoiding chambering problem
we can call those bullets after that machining HILAL BULLETS
cheers
yes

Hello guys
I have used Rhino for the last 7 years, never had any problem in caliber 3006 with the 180 gr Rhino
6,5x55 with the 140 grs and at last 375H&H Mag with 250 grs for Plains game, 270gr for a combined and finally the 300 grs for the large animals in Norway such as the Norwegian Moose.

In 3006 the 180 grs bullet had to be seated a litle bit deeper than normal, at normal lenght the bullet fastened in the barral grows, after seating them 2mm deeper its worked well.
In the 6,5 caliber and 375 caliber I set as the standard lenght for the bulletweight in the caliber.

180 gr Rhino from a Zebra.

the 3006 with 180 gr Rhino

quote:

IMO Kobus would be better advised to address his quality control problems rather than attacking his customers or ex customers.

Shakari,

I do not doubt for 1 minute that you had a problem, I think it is the process of reporting and handling the problem.

I don't think Kobus is attacking his customers, this is not his style, he has to many repeat business for this. Most will testify that he is helpful, but what he is saying or expecting is that unhappy customers will report back asap when a problem is observed, not years later:

1. Send the ammo back, so he can check it out
2. When found to be faulty he will replace the bullets or give a refund.

It is that simple ... if this was not done, Kobus has no means to assess the situation.
I guess this is fair.

Another way to report the problem was to give exact measurements ito

- Bullet length
- Bullet Diameter
- Bullet weight

so that it could be compared with the spec sheet - and this could have been done telephonically as a first step.
Then it could be followed up by returning the bullets so the manufacturer as the opportunity to assess.
And then to make the customer happy.

If this simple process is not followed, you won't get restitution.
It is like buying a faulty camera, and you decide not to return it to the shopkeeper.

This is how I see it.

Warrior

quote:

Originally posted by Warrior:

quote:

IMO Kobus would be better advised to address his quality control problems rather than attacking his customers or ex customers.

Shakari,

I do not doubt for 1 minute that you had a problem, I think it is the process of reporting and handling the problem.

I don't think Kobus is attacking his customers, this is not his style, he has to many repeat business for this. Most will testify that he is helpful, but what he is saying or expecting is that unhappy customers will report back asap when a problem is observed, not years later:

1. Send the ammo back, so he can check it out
2. When found to be faulty he will replace the bullets or give a refund.

It is that simple ... if this was not done, Kobus has no means to assess the situation.
I guess this is fair.

Another way to report the problem was to give exact measurements ito

- Bullet length
- Bullet Diameter
- Bullet weight

so that it could be compared with the spec sheet - and this could have been done telephonically as a first step.
Then it could be followed up by returning the bullets so the manufacturer as the opportunity to assess.
And then to make the customer happy.

If this simple process is not followed, you won't get restitution.
It is like buying a faulty camera, and you decide not to return it to the shopkeeper.

This is how I see it.

Warrior

I think you need to re-read my posts mate.

In summary, I had 24 hours to load ammo for my new rifle because I unexpectedly had to take it to TZ at very short notice. I bought the only SP bullets available..... which were Rhino SP.

I loaded them, couldn't close the bolt on any of them and with the clock ticking, took rifle, ammo and everything else down to the shop where we measured them, found them to be oversized and machined them all down to the correct size. (see pics)

On my way to the shop, (saturday lunchtime BTW) I called Kobus and whilst he didn't quite tell me to f**k off, his attitude made it quite plain he wasn't interested. His only real comment was "it can't be my bullets, it must be the rifle"

It wasn't the new rifle, it was the bullets. 3 separate people measured them on 3 separate sets of calipers and they WERE oversize. After we'd machined them down to the correct size, they chambered perfectly.

When the various clients used the Rhino SP bullets in Tanzania, the bullets all behaved like solids and didn't expand at all. By the end of the season, the bullets had all been used and although I was glad to see the back of them, I was obviously unable to send any back because I didn't have any left.

As for Kobus not attacking his customers.

The message that was posted that claimed to be from him (and I have no reason to disbelieve it's authenticity) said:

"As for Shakari’s story, again these bullets grew to more than 0.02mm (0.25 thou) over die size. The only way this can happen is if someone tampered with these bullets (put them in a vice and give them a light squeeze this will bring there size up by what ever thou you want.) the question is, was this done in my factory or people that have an ulterior motive. I will leave that up to the reader to decide, as for the wonderful penetration only a fool will believe that a soft nose bullet did not deform or open after penetrating a Buff plus 1 ½ tree. You must think every one on this site is an idiot"

If you look at the pics I posted, you'll see uniform machine marks all the way around the bullet so his idea of saboutage is nonsense as is his intimation that I might have done it.

Like I said earlier, I'd bet whoever suggested that one to him, wasn't named Sherlock Holmes!

Not only do I consider his comments insulting to me, I reckon it also displays a remarkable lack of knowledge of ballistics etc if he thinks a .404 that behaved like a solid isn't capable of that kind of penetration.

I'm not suggesting for a moment that his bullets are no good..... the pics of those that worked show good performance..... but that isn't the point.

The point that I and a few others are trying to make is that we had problems with them and the one thing those problems all have in common points to a lack of quality control.

The claim that the factory puts all the bullets through sized holes actually proves a lack of quality control because my bullets and probably those of the other guys, obviously couldn't have been passed through the holes...... therefore, whoever is in charge of that part of the operation, obviously isn't doing their job properly.

I'm not criticising anyone for using Rhino bullets and nor am I suggesting they're no good.

All I'm saying is that I had problems with them that I feel could be prevented in the future by better quality control and that after my experience of them, I would not be willing to use in my rifles them again.

Whether other people choose to use them is entirely up to them.