recently i bought a some 222R cartridges loaded by rhino with rhino bullets. the first teston the soake papper indicated excellent mushrooming and penetraratin far better than average. if you use or have used these bullets for hunting in africa in any other caliber. please tell me about it.
best regards
yes

My personal experience means I wouldn't ever touch 'em again with a bargepole.

I admit, my experience could have been a one off or maybe they were early bullets that might have been in stock somewhere for a long time but FWIW, here what happened.

I collected my new .404 from the rifle makers and was due to go to Tanzania a few days later. I had no plans to take the .404 with me and hadn't even bought any cases and/or bullets.

That evening I had a call from a buddy who was already up there saying he was in desperate need of a scoped DG rifle and could I bring something up with me.

I told him not to worry and I'd buy components and load ammo the mext morning and bring the 404 with me.

I went to the shop, bought everything I needed but the ONLY SPs they had were the Rhino. I bought them, got everything loaded and that evening, tried to cycle the bullets...... not one of them allowed me to even come close to closing the bolt.

The next morning I called the shop who had made my rifle and sold me the components, explained the situation and asked for advice..... they told me to bring everything down to the shop and we'd suss it out together.

As I drove down there, I made two phone calls. The first call was to Rhino bullets who simply told me it couldn't be their bullets and frankly, their attitude told me they weren't very interested.

The second call was to Gerard of GS Custom to ask if he could suggest anything. He didn't ctiticise the other manufacturer at all but he did offer to ship me some of his bullets overnight so I'd have them by the following morning and he said as I wouldn't have time to pay him, I could pay whenever I got back from TZ. - How's that for great customer service!!

Anyway, back to the Rhinos..... I got to the gunshop and we got busy with the calipers and it turned out every bullet was over a thousandth of an inch oversized.

We pulled every bullet, turned them down on the lathe, reloaded, recrimped and checked they cycled properly.

When I got up to TZ, I gave the client the 404 and the ammo. He was hiring the rifle and paying for the ammo on a per round basis so I'd counted and made a note of number of both softs and solids and kept a record of who used what over the entire time I was up there.

At the end of the first day, they came back with a buffalo that had been shot with a soft........ it penetrated the entire length of the animal including the neck and exited between the nostrils...... That's good penetration from the 404 but piss poor performance from an expanding bullet.

Next up, they shot a buff that was standing side on. The bullet went straight through the buff, travelled on and went straight through a tree of about 28 ish inch circumference and buried itself halfway through another tree of the same sort of size. The tracker cut the (SP) bullet out and showed it to me before giving it to the client. - Other than the rifling, it was perfect. Again, good penetration from the 404 but piss poor performance from an expanding bullet.

The whole season went like that and I was helluva glad to see the end of those bullets.

I don't criticise others for using them but I'll never put another one into any of my rifles.

Personally, I'm not sure I'd even use 'em for fishing weights.

Wow ... Shakari I am a little surprised.

Took 425 gr Rhinos in .458 Acc-Rel (AR) ammo to RSA early last summer. They were loaded to a moderate 2400 fps. Admittedly I was not hunting dangerous game. Really took the rifle to get some early performance info.

After sweating the ammo's being left in Amsterdam by the airlines but finally getting it delivered, the rifle and ammo worked well. It shot a clover leaf at sight-in. Knocked over a nice Wildebeast (literally) and dropped a huge Eland at 186 yards. (Seeing gave me far more difficulty than the accuracy or power of the rifle or the effectiveness of the bullets.)

The PH and company were surprised to find Rhinos in client ammo. Gave them a little tickle I think.

Would I risk it on dangerous game ... probably not ... Woodleighs simply have proven themselves and I don't get enough opportunities to risk a failure.

Mike,

It could be that I was just unlucky and maybe got an early box that incorrectly got marketed instead of scrapped but I take my bullets very seriously indeed and I'm not prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt or a second chance.

I'll stick with Woodleigh or GSC softs and very certainly GSC flat nosed mono solids!

What anyone else chooses to use is entirely up to them.

Damn Steve, that is great penetartion....! Maybe Gerhard can explain how that is possible with a bullet that he did not make?

On a more serious note, I do not doubt your findings, and as you might remember, we had a little rally over this issue before. But I find it hard to believe, as all my own and all the hunters that I know experience points the other way. if there was a problem with rhino, I think in the beginning their bullets frequently lost pedals, even at lowish velocity. this is again contradictory to what you say, that they do not open.

As to being more than a thousandth of an inch oversize, so they measured .424 instead of .423? Could this have been the local heat of Nelspruit? What calipers where used? Who mesured them, you or Eugene? Do you think that 1/1000 of an inch will result in then not cambering?

yes, back to the original question, they are very good bullets, and Kobus stands by his probuct better than most RSA manufacturers of my acquiantance. I have used or sen them used in .223, 7x57, 7x64, 30-06, 300 WM, 8x68, 9,3x62, 9.3x64, .416 Rigby and rem, .404, .458 WM and various hotter .458's, (my .450 Rigby has propably shot over 500 of their softs and a good 200 of their solids.), .500 Jeffery and A2. This on anything from springbk to elephant cow.

Karl,

Like I say, maybe I got a batch that got put in the wrong bin and should have been scrapped - I certainly wouldn't rule out that kind of human error...... as for who measured 'em, Eugene, his Father & I all measured 'em on 3 separate sets of calipers...... and yes, the difference in size did make a difference..... so much so that I couldn't close the bolt on a single round..... and I'm helluva glad I couldn't because if I had been able to, it could possibly have buggered my brand new rifle at the very least.

As for the heat in Nelspruit theory...... I don't think that's very likely at all.

If a bullet expanded that much in a Lowveld winter where night time temperatures drop below freezing and days barely get into the 20s it would be about as much use as a chocolate teapot in the steamy heat of the Selous where it can get into the 40s huh!

Incidentally, I said over a thousandth of an inch, not a thousandth..... I can't remember how much over it was but seem to recall around 1 1/2 thousandths or so.

As I said earlier. What anyone else chooses to use is entirely up to them but I'll stick with Woodleigh or GSC softs and very certainly GSC flat nosed mono solids!

thanks for replies. i had a problem simillar to steve mentioned with barnes X bullets in their childhood nearly 20 years ago. they actually were acting nice and mushroomed well in my tests but they zipped through roe bucks so well that the poor deer beleived may be it was a bee sting but today there are thousends of hunters loving these bullets and many good report about these bullets too. i have heared many good words about both rhino and Gs bullets too. these are tough bullets both.
cheers
yes

quote:

As for the heat in Nelspruit theory...... I don't think that's very likely at all.

Steve, that was tognue in cheek....!

I took one Eland and some Impala with a 250 gr Rhino SP in a 338 Win Mag.
Perfect performance as far as I could see.

I have limited experience with Rhino bullets but I will certainly never use them again. In my .30-06 (180 gr @ 2 750 fps) they sailed through everything like solids. I had to shoot one impala three times - I could cover the first two holes in his shouder with the palm of my hand. The last round went into the back of the head and ended the fracas. For what it's worth, a friend had almost exactly the same experience with Rhino's in his .30-06, just the 200 grainers.

After my own little mishap I returned what remained of the bullets to the shop I bought them from. The shop owner was on friendly terms with the owner/maker of Rhino and promised to give me feedback. That was four years ago and I'm still waiting.

Considering their cost, I have shunned Rhino ever since and used A-Frame, Woodleigh, Nosler and Hornady ever since. It's called peace of mind.

Some of my friends use Rhino products and they are quite happy with them, but not for me ever again.

It's taken me ages to find these bloody pics I took at the time but I finally managed to find them....... on my phone of all things!

I shot a kudu with my .375 H&H (shot quartering away) and the recovered bullet only had one "petal" left. A bit fragile I´d say.

quote:

Originally posted by Karl S:
they are very good bullets, and Kobus stands by his probuct better than most RSA manufacturers of my acquiantance. I have used or sen them used in .223, 7x57, 7x64, 30-06, 300 WM, 8x68, 9,3x62, 9.3x64, .

Karl:
On what have you used/seen used the 8mm ones? And in what weight(s)?
I'm quite keen on this info, as I bought 2 batches of 200grs Rhinos but haven't gotten to use them on game yet.

The test results seem to indicate excellent penetration; but that the bullets are rather hard making them most suited for heavier species rather than small soft-skinned game.
Also on basis of what I've read users say about them (apart from Steve!) this seems to hold water.

- Lars/Finland

I have used rhino bullets for my 375 and for my 500 asquare and have shot some of 50 animals with them !and i have not had any problems with them .Must say that i have used many diffrent type of bullets but now only use Rhinos

I'd say about the only thing this thread has proved is that their quality control isn't anywhere near as good as it should be because some people have had problems and consequentlt hate 'em whilst others haven't had problems and love 'em.

A 9,3/286gr Rhino bullet recovered from a hippo - shot at point blank range - retained weight 267gr or 93.4%:





The 286 gr Rhino Solid Shank bullet is awesome.

Warrior

To illustrate the kind of performance that one can typically expect from a Rhino bullet, here is another example - a 400 gr bullet shot from a .416 Rigby. Hanke Hudson of VTL shot a Blue Wildebeest at 80 paces with a muzzle velocity of 2,320 fps. The bullet penetrated completely, and was found on the far side under the skin.

The retained weight was 394 grains or 98.5% and the expanded diameter measured 21 mm. Sterling performance.



Warrior

Just another example of a retrieved 380 gr Rhino RN bullet shot in a 375 H&H:[/B]

Buffalo bull shot at 50 meters by Dr Gert van Niekerk:




Warrior

Gary Bauer shot a vbuffalo with his 458 3" Express at 2,230 fps and remarked ... "Hit the second last rib on left hand side, travelled through rumen, diaphragm, left lung, cut the aorta and was found against the first rib on the right hand side. I am very happy with these bullets, as was Koos Badenhorst, the developer of the Express and who was also present on the hunt."



Warrior

thanks för replies. there are always cases of failure for any kinds of bullets.
if they are too soft they will explod at impact with shallow penetration as result and if bullet is tough needs some resistance at impact like hitting a rib to oppen upp and mushroom, the acuraccy of rhino cartridges in my 222 has been excellent so far and they have mushroomed nicely in my tests on soaked papper.
regards
yes

I’ve used Rhino soft point bullets in .223, 7x57, .308, .375 H&H and .404 J. In a PH career spanning 10 years, I ended up using Rhino bullets exclusively in my back up rifles.

I’ve dealt directly with the owner of Rhino, Kobus vd Westhuizen, on numerous occasions and he has always been helpful and willing to back his product up. I would recommend Rhino bullets any day.

I have used rhino bullets mostly in my 375 H&H the 270 grainers and on plainsgame they work like a charm good penetration very good wound channel and a lot of blood to follow the animal. I would take on buffalo with them anytime.

Charl as used them in his 308 even at lower velocities the 180 gr bullets opened just fine and gave excellent penetration. As I recall Charl dispatched two wildebeest with them last year and the were both shot lengthwise with bullets sitting just underneath the skin on the opposite side. retained weight between 85 and 100 % on most of our recovered stuff.

I have also seen them work in 9.3x62, 8x68S, 300 win mag and 35 Whelen

Animals I have seen taken with Rhino bullets, Blue and black wildebeest, zebra, eland, giraffe, warthog, hippo, crocodile, steenbuck, duiker, bushbuck, mountain reedbuck, warthog, red hartebeest, springbuck, gemsbuck, nyala, waterbuck, ostrich, blesbuck, impala, kudu, baboon, jackal and bushpig.

Then with a bit of toungue in cheek Steve, when was the last time you were in the veldt as between myself Karl, Riaan and Charl being in the field the whole time and seeing bullet performance first hand.

Here, is the only recovered bullet I still have the rest was given to Mauritz Coetzee and the African Outifitter magazine. Wounded Impala with 180gr 300 win mag velocity of 3100 fps running away shot hit just left and below the tail and the bullet was found just under the skin in the neck. The impala went down spectacular with running flat out making a somersault before hitting the ground it was a sight to see. Range was just over 100 meters.




I am not a one bullet man only and use Remington, Hornady, Impala, Barnes, Swift and Rhino and will use the GS custom 450gr for our 458 when we get the license.

The new .375/380 gr Rhino's do mushroom better than the previous version as some changes have been made - it can clearly be seen in the petals.



Warrior

The last bullet on the far right explains why the Rhino bullet is the leader of the pack. Some of my testing:



Warrior

The Under Cover Rhino Bullets Rep has arrived!!

And the score is:
Will use again - 6
Wont use again - 3
Head of Clandestine Operations - 6

The next picture shows two perfectly expanded Rhino bullets that were retrieved from buffalo.
They are 430gr Rhino's, shot at a MV of 2,250 fps in a 416 Rigby.
One just cannot ask for any better than this.



This was upfront, not under cover - did not earn a cent.
Too many people are using Rhino's and like them, wonder why?
Feast your eyes once more over these 2 bullets.
And I just love it when I load these Rhinos.
It must burn your ass.

Warrior

Some more recovered Rhino's (and to proove to the only undercover agenda seeker on this post (VV)that I do not only report on the good ones, some less than perfect ones as well) (solid and second pic, 1st bullet are not Rhino's):





And here is a .450 Rhino (500gr) out of a buffalo compared to a 400gr .416 from "another RSA manufacturer". Rhino on left if its not obvious...

Like I said, I might just have been unlucky and maybe got a batch of bullets that should have gone into the scrap bucket and accidentally got put in the wrong place.

Also like I said, I choose not to use 'em again but I don't criticise others for using 'em if that's what they like.

Funny thing about bullets and hunters. Everyone has such strong opinions and so many people brook no argument about their own opinions........ The attitude is very often just that they're right and anyone who disagrees is wrong.

On the subject of bullets. I spoke to Ken Stewart today and he's bringing out a new range of target/practice jacketed bullets called the targeteers and calibres will be from 9.3 to 577. Prices in the range of R5 - 6 each.

Also on the same subject, has anyone seen or tried the new Woodleigh Hydro range yet?

They look bloody odd to me but they've got a good write up.

quote:

Everyone has such strong opinions and so many people brook no argument about their own opinions........ The attitude is very often just that they're right and anyone who disagrees is wrong.

Steve, you are 110% correct there. I have seen hunters on hunt "believeng" something different happened, even though I saw it differently, and even sometimes if you look at the video afterwards, things happened slightly different than what story is stuck in someone's head. The same with bullets, so one has to remain very objective.
No bullet will be 100% infallable, I now use mostly Barnes (TSX and solids) for big calibers and Swift A-Frames for smaller calibers, mostly because of the deal I am getting from them, and also because I believe they are the best overall

Bullet debates always seem to raise the temperature for some reason..... but it ain't ever gonna change.

The Woodleigh bullets I mentioned are the weirdest looking things I ever seen in the bullet world and I'll be interested to hear about hunter's experiences with them.

Check these links:

http://www.woodleighbullets.co...Monos%20page%201.pdf

http://www.woodleighbullets.co...Monos%20page%202.pdf

The first batch of Rhino bullets that I bought was in 2002,.458 500gr and loaded in my .458 Lott to 2300fps and was greatly impressed with them.The next batch that I bought and loaded was supposed to be .458 calibre 485gr bullets but I could'nt load them as the crimping cannelures differed on almost every bullet and the weight differences varied between 460gr and 490gr.I returned them to Rhino who sent me a new batch in the same calibre and weight, but I was very dissapointed in them as they seemed to be a lot more fragile than the 500gr bullets I had used earlier and in the end stopped using them at all.They were meant to be used on buffalo but the first two animals I shot with them a Hartebeest and Sable they completely broke up,all petals broken off and very poor penetration,from then on just stuck to the solids that I had.During this period I had also ordered their .375 300gr bullet for use in my .375H&H and had the same problem as Shakari,I loaded them but none of them would chamber in my rifle.When i measured them they were all .385 calibre.Since these incidents I have never used Rhino bullets again.

quote:

Originally posted by mbuyu:
The first batch of Rhino bullets that I bought was in 2002,.458 500gr and loaded in my .458 Lott to 2300fps and was greatly impressed with them.The next batch that I bought and loaded was supposed to be .458 calibre 485gr bullets but I could'nt load them as the crimping cannelures differed on almost every bullet and the weight differences varied between 460gr and 490gr.I returned them to Rhino who sent me a new batch in the same calibre and weight, but I was very dissapointed in them as they seemed to be a lot more fragile than the 500gr bullets I had used earlier and in the end stopped using them at all.They were meant to be used on buffalo but the first two animals I shot with them a Hartebeest and Sable they completely broke up,all petals broken off and very poor penetration,from then on just stuck to the solids that I had.During this period I had also ordered their .375 300gr bullet for use in my .375H&H and had the same problem as Shakari,I loaded them but none of them would chamber in my rifle.When i measured them they were all .385 calibre.Since these incidents I have never used Rhino bullets again.

This is weird to say the least, but not for me to say, as I do not make these bullets - I have used them in most calibers myself, save for the .458 and bigger. We have never ever experienced an over size bullet in the .375 that is commonly used between a friend of mine and my son. I thus find this very hard to believe.

I therefore decided to phone Kobus van der Westhuizen for clarification, because I noticed the writer has only 4 postings to his credit, no indication of loaction, etc.

1) Kobus has no recollection of such an incident ever happened, and he kindly asked that you phone him so he can discuss the matter with you, and at the same time check his sale records to you and proof of payment.

2) Kobus also stated that it is not possible that a .375" Bullet can come out at .385". Typically his bullets run a 1/4thou under spec, as they are solid shank bullets.

Kobus asked that you please phone him within the next 24 hours.
His cell number is 082-374 6440
His home landline is 043- 736 1822 (you may call him in the evening, no problem)


Thanks
Warrior

Warroir, seeing that you neglected to give Kobus's number, I took the liberty to post it here:
+27 43 7366942
+27 43 7361822
Hope this helps.

I bought them once. Had terrible accuracy and the bullets were all different in appearance with varying degrees of exposed lead tip. Did not measure them as had not tools.
Still have about 70 left, one box unopened as I am not willing to shoot them at anything living, rather use a sierra match king in the right place than a rhino in the poor animals arse. Tried different seating depths and loads, spread would be as much as 30cm at 150m.

My rifle shoots sub moa groups at 200m with barnes, GS, Sierra, Hornady and PMP
The rhinos were a disappointment to say the least as I like to shoot local products.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
It's taken me ages to find these bloody pics I took at the time but I finally managed to find them....... on my phone of all things!

What in the world is going on here Steve ..!!

quote:

Tried different seating depths and loads, spread would be as much as 30cm at 150m.

Vlam,

And you blame this on the bullet - near 12 inches of spread.
This is unheard of, but you say all other bullets group less than 1-inch.
Did these Rhino bullets land sideways or were the holes round?
What is the caliber and the weight?
This is definately something to explore further.
Did you discuss this with Kobus?
I am sure he would like to know more about this.

Warrior

Hey Warrior,

quote:

It must burn your ass.

It used to, when I still tried to use Rhino. Since changing to "another RSA manufacturer", all burning has stopped. Life is cool man.

And the score is:
Will use again = 6
Wont use again = 5
Head of Clandestine Operations = 9

Your imaginary score means shit !!!
Kobus sold 600,000 bullets last year.
That is what counts.

Warrior

quote:

Originally posted by Warrior:

quote:

Originally posted by mbuyu:
The first batch of Rhino bullets that I bought was in 2002,.458 500gr and loaded in my .458 Lott to 2300fps and was greatly impressed with them.The next batch that I bought and loaded was supposed to be .458 calibre 485gr bullets but I could'nt load them as the crimping cannelures differed on almost every bullet and the weight differences varied between 460gr and 490gr.I returned them to Rhino who sent me a new batch in the same calibre and weight, but I was very dissapointed in them as they seemed to be a lot more fragile than the 500gr bullets I had used earlier and in the end stopped using them at all.They were meant to be used on buffalo but the first two animals I shot with them a Hartebeest and Sable they completely broke up,all petals broken off and very poor penetration,from then on just stuck to the solids that I had.During this period I had also ordered their .375 300gr bullet for use in my .375H&H and had the same problem as Shakari,I loaded them but none of them would chamber in my rifle.When i measured them they were all .385 calibre.Since these incidents I have never used Rhino bullets again.

This is weird to say the least, but not for me to say, as I do not make these bullets - I have used them in most calibers myself, save for the .458 and bigger. We have never ever experienced an over size bullet in the .375 that is commonly used between a friend of mine and my son. I thus find this very hard to believe.

I therefore decided to phone Kobus van der Westhuizen for clarification, because I noticed the writer has only 4 postings to his credit, no indication of loaction, etc.

1) Kobus has no recollection of such an incident ever happened, and he kindly asked that you phone him so he can discuss the matter with you, and at the same time check his sale records to you and proof of payment.

2) Kobus also stated that it is not possible that a .375" Bullet can come out at .385". Typically his bullets run a 1/4thou under spec, as they are solid shank bullets.

Kobus asked that you please phone him within the next 24 hours.
His cell number is 082-374 6440
His home landline is 043- 736 1822 (you may call him in the evening, no problem)


Thanks
Warrior

Warrior,

Thank you for the phone numbers I will contact him and clarify.

Thanks,
Mbuyu

Tanzania

Warrior,

I have contacted Mr.vd Westhuizen and he will check his sales records if he still has them from 2002-2003 and get back to me.He agreed that someone might have tampered with them or a gremlin might have snuck in.It happens...

Cheers,
Mbuyu

I've got a +1 for Rhino bullets. 220GR at relatively low velocity in my 30.06 worked perfectly on gemsbuck with the recovered bullet looking like the "picture postcard" mushroom after leg-heart-leg shot. Recovered under the skin on the far side. The noble beast collapsed at the shot.
JCHB.