The Accurate Reloading Forums
Best $3000 Safari Rifle
15 February 2010, 06:20
Idaho SharpshooterBest $3000 Safari Rifle
I have a real nice CZ in .450 Dakota...
I guess I could always download it to what ever puny rounds the Ruger RSM offers. Call me when they have something that will shoot 500gr Woodleighs over 2500fps. I got another one in 505 Gibbs if I need more...
The two Caprivi's I have shot both required loaded rounds to be pushed back and down to fit in the magazine. Kind of like making a standard 98 in 375 H&H with out modifying the action for the longer cartridge OAL. They fixed that yet? Do they hold six rounds in 375 Holland or 458 Lott yet? Didn't think so.
My CZ does...
Cosmetics VS power, that's a real tough one...
Rich
15 February 2010, 07:07
WyoJoequote:
Originally posted by safari-lawyer:
If you had a budget of $3000 to spend on a single rifle that you would use for 99% of your safari hunting over the next several years, what would you buy?
$3000 is for the rifle only. Scope not included.
What if the budget were expanded to $5000?
Build my P-17 into something that begins with a 4.
******************************
There comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor polite, nor popular -- but one must ask, "Is it right?"
Martin Luther King, Jr.
15 February 2010, 15:03
TrapperPSo, all these posts and no one has mentioned the Sako? I have a Mod 75 in 375 H&H with a Leupy 1.5-5 sitting atop that I would sell to someone and I have always thought it a very fine piece. Detractions?
Lord, give me patience 'cuz if you give me strength I'll need bail money!!
'TrapperP'
15 February 2010, 17:38
BuliwyfSterling Davenport .375 H&H.
Sterling Davenport .500 Jeffery
15 February 2010, 19:27
BiebsSterling is a great maker, but even at his very reasonable prices, you'd be way over the $5K cap for this inquiry.
15 February 2010, 21:06
MacD37IMO, a "SAFARI" rifle should have two or three things that deer rifles don't necessarily need! I see a lot of reccomnedations here that are simply not good candidates IMO. #1 for a rifle that may be used for what ever pops out of the bush, no "PUSH FEEDS" need apply, Period!That one thing negates 2/3rds of the rifles reccomended so far.
#2 any rifle that may have to finish a Safari that is 6000 miles from you gun vault needs to have a lot of back-up features! Scopes mounted in quality "return to zero" Quick detach mounts, so a scope can be removed,or a pre-zeroed extra scope and/or installed without haveing the re-zero.
#3 Quality iron sights that are zeroed in perfectly, for back up if anything goes wrong with the scope while you are miles from the bakki, and your extra scope or rifle. the chambering starts no lower than 9.3X62 and preferably at 375 H&H, and up from there.
Since we are talking bolt rifles in the $3000-$5000 range not very many are available that will not require some addtional work to make them a reliable rifle,but a good CRF plateform is the way to start. For about $2500 you can pickup a Ruger RSM in your choice of the available chamberings and start from there, but there isn't much to do to make this rifle a good working Safari rifle. The CZ is another choice that with a little work will be a very reliable working Safari rifle, and the factory chamberings offer a good choice range. Another one that has not been mentioned is the Whitworth African Express on the used market. They come chambered for 375H&H, or 458Win Mag, and are easily re-chambered for 458 LOTT. With a Mod 70 type safety installed, and a good timney trigger, with a little work on the irons sights, and with a set of Warne, or other quality QD rings and bases that rifle can do your dirty work even without the custom maker's names listed so far! The Whitworth will come in under your $3000 low price with all the mods.
.............................
....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982
Hands of Old Elmer Keith
15 February 2010, 21:36
TerryR"for 99% of your safari hunting", that equates to plainsgame, cats and maybe buffalo. I'd put elephant in the 1%. For me that would mean a 375 H&H. I'd look for a Winchester model 70.
16 February 2010, 06:59
OldsargeI'm with Mac. Tack driving accuracy is irrelevant on a safari. What is most important, especially in dangerous game country, is reliability. As in combat, any weapon that requires fiddling is a liability. It must work the first time, the second time and every time after that. Since your PH will be carrying a stopper in case things go south, and they do, what you need is something that feeds 110% of the time. It isn't just the rifle in that case, but the cartridge as well. Square cornered 'modern' cartridges are not a good idea. So what is you choice? A good Mauser 98, original or clone, in .375. Spend the first thou on the rifle and the rest on the gunsmith and the scope. That will give you the best chance of getting home in one piece.
Sarge
Holland's .375: One Planet, One Rifle . . . for one hundred years!
16 February 2010, 07:05
Willquote:
Originally posted by Oldsarge:
I'm with Mac. Tack driving accuracy is irrelevant on a safari. What is most important, especially in dangerous game country, is reliability. As in combat, any weapon that requires fiddling is a liability. It must work the first time, the second time and every time after that. Since your PH will be carrying a stopper in case things go south, and they do, what you need is something that feeds 110% of the time. It isn't just the rifle in that case, but the cartridge as well. Square cornered 'modern' cartridges are not a good idea. So what is you choice? A good Mauser 98, original or clone, in .375. Spend the first thou on the rifle and the rest on the gunsmith and the scope. That will give you the best chance of getting home in one piece.
Dang, I haven't seen you post in a coons age.
-------------------------------
Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun.
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and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR
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If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go.
16 February 2010, 07:24
Sendero300Sarge,
How's things ...haven't seen you post in quite awhile....
Sendero300>>>===TerryP
17 February 2010, 03:43
Russ GouldI will build you a Steyr "Bad Boy" in 375 H&H or any of the similar ctgs for half that money. Add a couple of benjamins for NECG banded front with a ghost ring rear. Magazine capacity 7 (yes SEVEN) rounds.
Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC
BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris
Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns
VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear
17 February 2010, 08:22
safari-lawyerDo any of the Winchester buffs have any experience with the Winchester African Express or Safari Express models last offered by the Winchester Custom Shop circa 2006?
http://www.winchesterguns.com/...mily=013C&mid=535912http://www.winchesterguns.com/...fset=%2D1&mid=535911
Will J. Parks, III
17 February 2010, 08:43
SAFARIKIDquote:
Originally posted by Frank Beller:
Biebs: Very well said ...... I totally agree.
DITTO ON BIEBS!...But,what animals are to be taken on that Safari?
"That's not a knife..THIS is a KNIFE" !
17 February 2010, 08:46
SAFARIKIDThis is a very clean,good looking rifle!Not overdone and reeks of Africa
..I would like it in 505 Gibbs
quote:
Originally posted by A.Dahlgren:
I found a Mauser 416 Rigby in Sweden for around 4k(NEW) I have taken everything from Steenbok to Elephant with a 416, a perfect weapon IMO !
"That's not a knife..THIS is a KNIFE" !
17 February 2010, 09:37
martinbnsI would be picking up a Sako 85 Kodiak in 375 H&H for $2,000 cdn plus scope and mounts.
17 February 2010, 13:11
AUSGWHI agree martin bns - I have a Sako Kodiak 375 H+H - it is a great purpose built accurate hunting rifle - it is coming to Africa with me in Sept.
cheers
17 February 2010, 22:10
buckeyeshooterquote:
Originally posted by safari-lawyer:
Do any of the Winchester buffs have any experience with the Winchester African Express or Safari Express models last offered by the Winchester Custom Shop circa 2006?
http://www.winchesterguns.com/...mily=013C&mid=535912http://www.winchesterguns.com/...fset=%2D1&mid=535911
My 470 capstick is a Custom African Express. Recieved September 25, 2001, after a year to make. Would be the one I carry for the big stuff.
17 February 2010, 22:42
Bwana NderoboMy vote goes to the Winchester Safari Express in 416Rem Mag, topped with a Leupold VXIII 1.5-5x20. 400 grainers for the big beasties, 350 grainers for plains game, good out to 300yds. Less than $1,750.00 and off on safari we go...
18 February 2010, 00:09
boom stickquote:
Originally posted by safari-lawyer:
If you had a budget of $3000 to spend on a single rifle that you would use for 99% of your safari hunting over the next several years, what would you buy?
$3000 is for the rifle only. Scope not included.
What if the budget were expanded to $5000?
Save the money from the scope and get a used double and learn to shoot it well.
18 February 2010, 04:34
Use Enough Gunbuckeyeshooter: I do. It's a .375 H&H from Winchester's limited 5 Safari rifle runs.(Gold inlay of lion's head on the floor plate, along with gold outline of Africa and "Big Five" on the floor plate as well). I sent it off to LeRoy Barry of Canyon Creek Custom Gunstocks in Montana, who further customized it for me with a new Bastogne Walnut stock, ebony fore end, custom checkering, beautiful engraving on the rifle barrel, my initials in the gold ring on the trigger guard and a customized silver pistol grip with a leopard's head. It was a nice firearm before, but it's a fantastic rifle now, and it has taken many species of game, including two leopard and one lion.
18 February 2010, 05:08
RobinOLocksleyquote:
Originally posted by Russ Gould:
I will build you a Steyr "Bad Boy" in 375 H&H or any of the similar ctgs for half that money. Add a couple of benjamins for NECG banded front with a ghost ring rear. Magazine capacity 7 (yes SEVEN) rounds.
Hi Russ,
Your post caught my attention and I immediately checked out your website.Both the Badboy versions look very interesting to me and the price tag very reasonable.
Could you please tell us more about these rifles?Thank you.
Best-
Locksley,R.
"Early in the morning, at break of day, in all the freshness and dawn of one's strength, to read a book - I call that vicious!"- Friedrich Nietzsche
18 February 2010, 05:13
dogcatquote:
Originally posted by Bwana Nderobo:
My vote goes to the Winchester Safari Express in 416Rem Mag, topped with a Leupold VXIII 1.5-5x20. 400 grainers for the big beasties, 350 grainers for plains game, good out to 300yds. Less than $1,750.00 and off on safari we go...
I like this set up but in the .375 H&H. However, the .416 is poison on anything you would want to shoot. I have several M70's, all shoot 1 MOA or less with minimal work. The .375's all shot 1 MOA out of the box with three kinds of ammo.
Spend your money on trophy fees and plane tickets.
18 February 2010, 07:25
Buliwyfquote:
Originally posted by Biebs:
Sterling is a great maker, but even at his very reasonable prices, you'd be way over the $5K cap for this inquiry.
HORSESHIT, Sterling will build a .375 close to $3000 USD and a .500 Schuler Jumbo close to 5K.
18 February 2010, 09:11
Russ GouldWe do 2 Bad Boys
1. Bad Boy IV: New Mauser 98 commercial action, four rounds, hinged bottom metal, standard or magnum bolt face, standard (458) or long magazine (375H&H), Hogue Overmolded stock w full length rail, timney trigger w side safety. This is normally sold as a kit that you can complete (sights and finish). These kits were really cheap but we are just about out of them. We have a couple left in 375 Ruger, one in 458 Win Mag, one complete rifle in 458 Win Mag, and 3 naked actions that we can do pretty much anything with. I may do a 404 on a couple of them, but I have done everyting from a 9.3x62 up to a 470 Capstick. The kits are cheap, but that price is predicated on a good deal we got on some barrels. We are now to the point where we are quoting individual orders according to the barrel specified. If you want a Krieger, you can have a Krieger, but you aren't going to pay $675 for the whole kit.
2. Bad Boy VIII. Steyr Prohunter stainless (blackened or bright) action and stock, custom barrel. We will only make 6 of these, two are done, leaving 4 to go. We lucked into 6 new donor rifles that we got for a reasonable price on a closeout.
Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC
BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris
Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns
VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear
18 February 2010, 11:52
umshiniwamJust thought that I would post the cost of some rifles here in RSA and their equivalent in USD. I often envy yu guys over there when I look at what rifles cost there.
A quick search on the internet found these local prices for rifles.
CZ 550 375 H&H (STD) R15,500 ($2,028)
Remington 700 375 H&H XCR R21,000 ($2,747)
Sako 85 Hunter 375 H&H R25,000 ($3,271)
Weatherby Mark V Synthetic 375 H&H R23,500 ($3,074)
Ruger M77 Hawkeye African 375 Ruger R16,000 ($2,093)
The new Model 70 Safari Express will probably cost at least 21k here ($2,747) and I see that the MSRP is $1,279.
18 February 2010, 12:21
JHunterquote:
Originally posted by umshiniwam:
Just thought that I would post the cost of some rifles here in RSA and their equivalent in USD. I often envy yu guys over there when I look at what rifles cost there.
...yes, it is quite amusing to go to hollands in london and see ruger rsm's on the shelf going for over usd5,000...by the same token (of taxes, duties, multiple margins, etc.) english and european guns cost a small fortune in the states if priced by dealers at the current usd equivalent of the guns' euro/pound cost...
18 February 2010, 18:05
Biebsquote:
HORSESHIT, Sterling will build a .375 close to $3000 USD and a .500 Schuler Jumbo close to 5K.
Might be, but not in the fashion I like my African rifles equipped...high-grade walnut, quarter rib, NECG Express sights, Timney trigger...etc
18 February 2010, 18:30
bluefinCan't see anything over a 375. With the way airlines are going and now some countries on their importation rules, the big bores will become safe queens. We'll all be limited to hunting with our rifles in N America. The only game I see being able to use them on would be bear and elk.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a custom .400+ cannon. Just don't see the practicality (read three hunts or more) of spending the big bucks on anything in the 400 calibre.
18 February 2010, 18:47
MikelravyFor me 99% of hunting can be done without dangerous game rifle. 300 or 338 for 99% and something bigger for the very occasional buff hunt. Don't want to be saddled with heavy cannon for everything
19 February 2010, 08:30
Alberta CanuckI don't know anything about airlines rules and new gov't regs but know what I would take for rifles if I was going to go to Africa...which I am not.
In 1972 I bought a number of used doubles in England for approx. $300 Canadian apiece. One was a beautiful Simson .470, Another a hand-detachable box-lock WR ,450/.400. Either of those would be okay for me. I'd have to borrow one of them back, but that could be done.
But as a more all-around gun, most likely I'd take my Musgrave .404 Jeffery. Trevor built it as a bespoken rifle especially for me. Brand new laid down in Canada it cost me 1,600 rand back when the exchange rate was 4 rand to the U.S. dollar. It is still lying around here dreaming of next fall and another hunting season.
There are a few advantages to being old. Not many, but some.
19 February 2010, 11:47
shakariYou have no end of choice out there and this
http://www.shakariconnection.c...ultimedia-guide.html might help you in your research and decision.
20 February 2010, 03:52
Oldsargequote:
Originally posted by Will:
quote:
Originally posted by Oldsarge:
I'm with Mac. Tack driving accuracy is irrelevant on a safari. What is most important, especially in dangerous game country, is reliability. As in combat, any weapon that requires fiddling is a liability. It must work the first time, the second time and every time after that. Since your PH will be carrying a stopper in case things go south, and they do, what you need is something that feeds 110% of the time. It isn't just the rifle in that case, but the cartridge as well. Square cornered 'modern' cartridges are not a good idea. So what is you choice? A good Mauser 98, original or clone, in .375. Spend the first thou on the rifle and the rest on the gunsmith and the scope. That will give you the best chance of getting home in one piece.
Dang, I haven't seen you post in a coons age.
I've been busy with other things. But I retire in June so once again it's time for dreams of Africa and preparatory sundowners.
Sarge
Holland's .375: One Planet, One Rifle . . . for one hundred years!
20 February 2010, 13:52
shakariYou might also consider something from Sabi Rifles in Nelspruit at
www.sabirifles.co.za I'd have thought they could do you something in that price range and FWIW, they've built two fifles for me that I'm delighted with.
21 February 2010, 04:32
BigFiveJackSteve,
How many rounds fit in that "extended mag" top
rifle please? {and please state it's caliber}
Jack
OH GOD! {Seriously, we need the help.}
21 February 2010, 10:48
Mike_DettorreI would find me a used CZ in 9,3x62...put a few hundred into it and go hunting and not worry about how much my rifle cost.
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.
What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
21 February 2010, 12:09
shakariJack,
It's a .500 Jeffery and holds 3 + 1.
The extended mag wasn't made by Sabi Rifles but by my old friend Peter Lang in Wales. He's a right clever bugger and all I did was send him all the relevent measurements. It arrived in the post a few months later and fitted perfectly.
22 February 2010, 05:44
fredj338You can certainly do it for a lot less than $3000! A CZ w/ M70 safety, rebedded, good glass, you are there. A M70 in 375 or 416 ( would favor 375 for the verstiity & use here in the states too), rebedded, good glass, you are there. Same for a RSM. If you just want a custom rifle, then go for it. Use a M70 or Mauser or whatever action, custom wood, etc & spend as much as you like, but factory guns will work just as well w/ a tiny bit of tweeking. Then you have more money for trpohy fees!
LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT!
22 February 2010, 11:51
BigFiveJackquote:
Originally posted by shakari:
Jack,
It's a .500 Jeffery and holds 3 + 1.
The extended mag wasn't made by Sabi Rifles but by my old friend Peter Lang in Wales. He's a right clever bugger and all I did was send him all the relevent measurements. It arrived in the post a few months later and fitted perfectly.
CLEVER is an understatement!
Jack
OH GOD! {Seriously, we need the help.}
22 February 2010, 16:47
shakariJack,
That's not the half of it. The floorplate is hinged and secured by an allen screw with anti vibration washer and the allen screw is the same size as my scope allen screws, so I can keep a cut down allen key in the stock and the inside of the floor plate is slightly machined out to accommodate the spring when it's under full compression.
The DVD I posted a link to above is unbelievably good, esp at the price it is, but not even that has those little tricks in it.
22 February 2010, 17:06
Peterquote:
I would find me a used CZ in 9,3x62...put a few hundred into it and go hunting
Sometimes the obvious needs to be restated!!! Still some of the other options presented were kind of fun.
Peter
Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong;