I have read a lot of reports here of guys who shot sable that just stood around - very unwary or even dumb(Zambia, Tanzania, and delta Moz). I hunted them one or two days with Buzz in Dande (only saw them running), over a week every day in Niassa one year (on them a lot and all mature bulls running for miles)and killed one after tracking last year. After I killed, all the sable we saw were quite wary, and the other guy in my group hunted about a week to get a shot at a good bull. Also, a friend killed one with CM in Dande East during my hunt with Buzz, and his proved wary. Have we just had the exception to the rule? Is it a geographic thing? What are your experiences and thoughts? I know mine is one of my most fond trophies because it took so much to take one, but folks like Frostbit, etc. have a vastly different opinion.

Tim,

Been lucky enough to shoot two.

My sable in Zim was quite the hunt... fewer numbers of sable meant when you found a good bull you had to stay on him.

In the delta of Moz they are wary but found in such large numbers that getting one isn't a question of long tracking sessions. Just spotting a good bull and putting the sneak on him. If he bails you look for the next group and decide if the bull in that group is in a position to stalk or worthy of a stalk. So IMO, more a matter of numbers than geography per se.

Where ever you hunt them they are a majestic trophy and one of the most handsome of antelope!

My 15 days in Matetsi was always around Sable. They are definitely "Dumb" antelope. I got excellent photos over the 2 weeks and they did not become wary after one was shot. I would say they were the most unturned on game animal I have seen in Africa. By comparison, look at the Roan and Tsessebe in Matetsi. They are and have been Royal game for how long? Both were damn near impossible to photograph compared to the well hunted Sable in the very same unit. Sable are pretty and hardly anyone knows how "slow" they are. Hunt them with an open sighted double rifle.

Wow- Navaluk...that is the exact opposite of what I have ever seen, but why I asked. Russell, thanks for the input...and I agree. Actually to me, they are absolutely the most handsome antelope on earth. I know bongo, Mt nyala, and LDE are much higher trophies, but still to me nothing is more striking than a mature sable bull.

I found sable to be fairly easy to hunt. It seemed you could always find a herd within a 1/4 mile from where you saw them last. When it comes to "Dumb" I think Tsessebe takes the cake. I remember driving past them at 30 to 40 yards while they were laying down and they wouldn't even get up.

And for a bit of contrast, I can say that the only time I've ever been around Tsessebee, they were so dumb that I had no interest in shooting one. That was in Botswana, near the Selinda River. They were so tame we drove past them within 10 yards of the vehicle, and they'd just stand there looking as we passed.

Go figure.

I have only hunted them in the Mozambique delta and found their brave behavior, with the herd bull hanging back to maybe protect the herd, made them very vulnerable to hunters. Made me fell a little sad for such a majestic animal. Loan bulls were a bit different. Roan, of the other hand, is a very elusive animal, at least where I hunted them in Cameroon.
Jim

Hey Tim: The bull sable that I hunted and shot in Dande South in 2011 was as wary as all get out. It was a true stalk and chase hunt. I didn't see any Sable there that stood around when they got sight or wind of us. One of our trackers Zito and my bull sable from Dande South:

EUG - much as I have experienced

UEG-

Monster Sable, man, congrats!

Tim-

I've been around them in many countries and under both behavioral circumstances.

Sable are the antelope that I have far and away the most difficulty with .

Stud sable, UEG!

Sable are one of my favorite animals for sure.

Would love to shoot another one.

Tim, my experiences in Tanzania have been grim. I have only seen their south ends heading north! Very wary and wily.

I am hoping my luck changes this year in Mozambique.

Awesome bull, UEG.

Mike,

If you are hunting the Delta in Moz, I predict you won't have a problem. When, where and with whom?

My Tanz experience with Sable was with the Roosevelt sub-species down in the Selous. I could have taken one but didn't, although my partner did. A missed opportunity I have often regretted. My other Sable are from Zim.

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Herald:
I know mine is one of my most fond trophies because it took so much to take one, but folks like Frostbit, etc. have a vastly different opinion.

Maybe location and how much they are persecuted has something to do with the way they react. Tim, my experience is limited in that it is an anecdotal example of one hunt that included Sable. The one I killed presented little challenge, but I do agree they are magnificent looking antelope.

Andrew frequently used the phrase, "They are like chalk and cheese" when comparing Roan to Sable.

They may look somewhat alike but the Roan at Royal were incredibly difficult to get anywhere near, while multiple Sable after I killed mine could have easily been taken.

I find the Sable in the Kafue to be shy in heavily poached areas. But generally they are complacent to the point of arrogance.

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
Hey Tim: The bull sable that I hunted and shot in Dande South in 2011 was as wary as all get out. It was a true stalk and chase hunt. I didn't see any Sable there that stood around when they got sight or wind of us. One of our trackers Zito and my bull sable from Dande South:

That is a beauty mate and looks to be around 47 inches?

Tim: I've taken one or two in my day. I liken them alot to superior free ranging white tail. The little guys 40-44" are not so skittish. Put on an average to good stalk, shoot straight, you'll bring him down...45-47" you're likely gonna have to work a bit harder for him. They don't get that big by being "dumb"...It's takes some survival instincts to grow a 45" half mooned curve right? Now when you're hunting for something in the 48-49" range it's real game on. Every leaf that you might step on incorrectly could send the sable off and running. Those big boys are not just gonna sit around, pose and let you take a cell phone picture of them.

Big sable, and I mean the big ones 46-48", are also very wise at using trees and thick bush to their advantage. They instinctively shield their vitals behind trees, curl their head around the tree and sight danger long before danger gets a chance to cradle a rifle on the shooting sticks.

The exception to all this is, that every once in awhile, one will slip up, let his guard down, and make a fatal mistake. As the hunter you must capitalize on it if given that opportunity, for it all balances out, even on dangerous game I've seen that.

It's not luck. It's when preparation meets opportunity. Hunt long enough in Africa you'll compile a room full of trophies that you worked hard for..and then there will be some that you hardly worked for!

You cannot make a blanket assessment on sable, by just shooting one. That's simply too small of a sample size.

Buzz and I joked in Feb that we hunted harder for the Sable then my Elephant. Not quite but close. My Elephant did come quite easy though. Much more than my last Elephant. Took the shot on day 3 after maybe only 30 or so miles of walking.

Tim,

I don't know how to answer your question exactly but I think "Your mileage may very" kind of sums it up. Different place and different circumstances may equal a sable reacting quite differently. I've driven up on them in a Cruiser and had three bulls just lie there 50 feet from the vehicle as we drove by on the Zambezi Delta. On the other hand we tracked and crawled on our bellies all one day to close the deal on a big bull on a ranch in Zim.

Overall I don't think a sable bull is the sharpest pencil in the box but I don't think they are always a slam dunk either. A perfect example of a different place and different circumstance effecting animals behavior is what DLS said his experience was with tseesbe were they were so they just stood and stared. My experience with them in Bangweulu was that it was nearly impossible to kill one on foot because they never stopped moving away from you.

Mark

Mark's comments about "your mileage may vary" are spot on.

I've shot two sables. My Zimbabwe bull was off and running the instant it saw us. We had caught up to it when it was in a clearing, though. In Zambia, we watched my bull watch us from a grove of trees for nearly five minutes before it turned its head enough for us to judge its horns.

Most lone sable bulls I've seen seemed content to stare at us if they were in any kind of cover. It was as if they believed we couldn't see them if they stood absolutely still.

Bill Quimby

Fairgame: He was 43 3/4", but a real trophy for the Dande South area!

If pressured they can be very switched on. In remote areas they are usually very approachable. Pressure is the dictating factor.

UEG, first of all I have probably hunted Dande East more days than most posters on here, seen what was there and recognizing the lion pressure can clearly say you shot a monster for that area. He is frankly a monster sable for anywhere other than maybe those giants in Zambia. I agree with all that they are a fantastic trophy, not cheap, and anytime I am with a buddy and he gets a quota to hunt one I tell him to go for it. I am curious if you shot this guy near the dam at Murarra camp. Also, who was your PH? I assume maybe Butch Coaton.
I saw a nice 40" bull or so there in 2009 when I shot my lion. I had one around that size so if that is the one you got, I feel good about letting him get to be so great. PM me the details sometime.

Also to Mark Watts, calling a 40-44 inch sable on here as a little guy is probably offensive to most that have worked hard for a nice old bull. My sable quite frankly does not quite go 40 but he has huge bases and was a very old tattered ear bull. There are clearly some sable in Zambia that get into the 50's but for most of us a 40-44 inch bull is a trophy of a lifetime and I would stand by that. Knowing you did not mean offense, I am not trying to pick a fight, just making it clear to all what I think is a nice trophy or not. I can guarantee you most Zim PH's on here would never turn down a 40-44 inch sable for a client as a "little guy".

In closing, I love the Dande areas and have heard from many how much Buzz has done to improve Dande east. I shot my first bull ele there in 2005 and have always had an affection for the area. It is great to see it yielding great trophies.

quote:

for most of us a 40-44 inch bull is a trophy of a lifetime

Any mature Sable bull in the region of 40 inches is a very worthy trophy indeed.

40 plus is gravy.

I have only killed 2 sable, 38 little guy and a 49 both were very easy. I was just lucky to run into the 49 very lucky. Don't know what I am going to do with my little guy now

quote:

Originally posted by jeff h:
I have only killed 2 sable, 38 little guy and a 49 both were very easy. I was just lucky to run into the 49 very lucky. Don't know what I am going to do with my little guy now

For starters show us the photo of the forty niner.

quote:

Originally posted by jeff h:

Don't know what I am going to do with my little guy now

Got a pickup? Horns would look great on the front.

BigBBear: I hunted with PH Lance Nesbitt in Dande South in 2011 and we shot the bull sable up in the steep southern hills of the concession. There were sable there in some numbers, but most were seen far off, and when you tried approaching them, they were on the run and not stopping. Hunting hilly rugged country for sable is a hell of a lot different than hunting them on level ground. In any event, Marc's comments don't offend me. I know Marc and he's shot a lot of fantastic trophies in Africa and he's a great hunter. I respect his opinion. However, with that said, this was, without question, indeed a monster bull for the Dande area and a true hunt. I too, love the
Dande area of the Zambezi Valley-a great place!

Then that was a different bull than i remember but I also remember those guys in the hills. We saw some there as well but the biggest I remember was the one at the Dam. I know Lance well and if you talk to him again tell him Larry Burgin says hi. He was a PH to a friend of mine in 2007 in Tanzania and I was hunting with Bruce Watson. He is and all around great PH. Were there still lots of lions in Dande South when you were there. It was covered up in 2009.

Yes, there were quite a few lions in 2011. And you are right-Lance is a great PH and good friend of Buzz and Dean Kendall, among others. I will maybe see him in 2014 when I return to Zim. I saw him at his restaurant-Roosters in Bulawayo-last September. He was getting ready for a hunt to Moz. at that time.

I spent 15 days amoungst Sable in Matetsi. As far as the big ones being like a whitetail. My experience tells me that is not true. But I saw them only every day for 15 straight days. I do have an early morning photo I took of a lone bull that I walked up into bow range of. I do not know the size but the opinions were 45-47. Looked big to me. Magnificent standing in the morning sun with a oxpecker working his ribcage. They are not as big of an animal as I thought they would be. Pm me if you want me to email you the photo.

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
Mike,

If you are hunting the Delta in Moz, I predict you won't have a problem. When, where and with whom?

My Tanz experience with Sable was with the Roosevelt sub-species down in the Selous. I could have taken one but didn't, although my partner did. A missed opportunity I have often regretted. My other Sable are from Zim.

I have only hunted Roosevelt's sable in the southern Selous, on the ridges flanking the Njenje and Mbarangandu rivers.

Very tough.

I will be hunting the same critters with Guy Whittall this fall, in Niassa province, in northern Mozambique, south of but pretty close to the Tanzanian border.

Good area, from all I've heard.

BigBear: It would never be my intention to be offensive to a fellow hunter. In fact I am all about building other hunters up and promoting safari hunting. The term "little guy" is nothing more than a term of endearment. Come on man. I don't know too much about hunting, but I do know that a 40" sable is thee desired standard. However now, I hope that you would agree... that Jeff H's 38-incher is for real a little guy!

Mike-

Best of luck on your quest for a Roosevelt Sable in norther Moz.

Interestingly, a few years ago there was an attempt to get Moz Sable located south of the Zambezi River re-classified as Roosevelts, primarily because of their smaller size (and because the outfitters could then charge More for the trophy fee!). Although I disagreed with the proposition I agreed that the question should be reviewed. It was and was denied. A proper resolution, IMO.

Mike, From what I hear there are tons of sable there. I find it funny that sable on the Moz side are common and sable on the Tanz side are Roosevelt- when that Selous/Niassa wildlife corridor is all part of the same system and is protected/managed as such. So how are the sable different subspecies (either way)?

Selous - Niassa Wildlife Protection Corridor
Natural Heritage

The Selous - Niassa Miombo woodland ecosystem as a whole is the largest trans-boundary natural dry forest ecosystem in Africa covering 150,000 km2 and extends across southern Tanzania into neighbouring Mozambique. The wide variety of wildlife habitats - forests, wooded grasslands, open savannahs, granite inselbergs, seasonal and permanent wetlands and rivers - account for globally significant biodiversity. The core conservation areas for its continued existence are:

the Selous Game Reserve (47.000 km2) of Tanzania, UNESCO World Heritage-Site
the Niassa Game Reserve (42.400 km2) of Mozambique
The Selous – Niassa Wildlife Corridor provides a significant biological link between the two reserves and consequently for the Miombo woodland eco-system, thus conserving one of the largest elephant ranges in the world containing also approximately 13% of the world’s remaining wild dog population.

In total the corridor has a size of approximately 17.030 km2. Starting at the most southern border of Selous Game Reserve the corridor extends over 160 km south until reaching Ruvuma River, the border of the Niassa Reserve in Mozambique, where it has a width of 176 km following the river’s course. Long-term conservation management of the Selous and two communal Associations Mbarang’andu and Nalika adjacent to the Selous resulted into larger concentrations of wildlife in the northern part of the corridor. According to aerial surveys undertaken every three years the wildlife populations are relatively stable. In the southern part the wildlife populations are recovering since the communities are actively involved in their management. However, wildlife is still timid and it will need a few more years of protection to reach sizable populations in the south. The main species are: Elephant, Buffalo, Eland, Sable Antelope , Hippo, Lichtenstein Hartebeest, Common Waterbuck, Bushbuck, Common Duiker, Southern Reedbuck, Wildebeest, Zebra, Impala, Klipspringer, Warthog, Bush pig. Leopards are common in the entire corridor whereas lions are more numerous in the northern part. In the south and in particular in Tunduru District man-eating lions are recorded for decades. Spotted Hyena, Jackal, Civet Cat and others carnivore species are also common. Several packs of Wild Dogs are observed in all parts of the corridor.

Hey Tim,

The question of sub-species designation and separation is always a thorny one and no decision ever makes everyone happy. Essentially, I agree with you, that a land border is highly questionable.

I was also involved in the attempt to re-classify Gemsbok taken in Namibia north of Windhoek as Angolan Gemsbok. I happened to agree with this one because it is a land border and not a major river. It was also denied, but the classification of Namibian Gemsbok was established. I find this one to be very vexing, but it is what we now have, so a Gemsbok taken in RSA is different from a Gemsbok taken in Namibia which is different from a Gemsbok taken in Angola. Oh, and don't forget there is a Kalahari Gemsbok in there as well!

Some of this is generated by money, pure and simple, rather than scientific fact. I was once actually credited with a world record Angolan Gemsbok for a period of at least a year. It was then rescinded and re-classified as an RSA Gemsbok. I protested and it was finally re-classified as a Namibian Gemsbok. So maybe the new classification of Namibian Gemsbok is partially my fault? Go figure!!??

at least in Coutada 10( Zambezi Delta) they were pretty damn stupid. getting one of 40 or more inches isn't a problem... we had a 37-38" bull that hung out about 100 yards from camp. saw him every morning when we drove out to hunt.

Tim and Mike,

I am told that genetic testing has proven that the sable in northern Mozambique are indeed of the Roosevelt variety.

Not surprising given the natural corridor that connects Niassa to the Selous.

Clearly, IMO, genetic testing is the only sure way to determine one sub-species from another. Baring natural boundaries of rivers or mountains it seems the best resolution to a sub-species classification. And because of overlap and cross breeding the test population must be large enough to validate the results.

If such testing has been done in northern Moz, I would not be surprised at all if Roosevelt Sable were identified as an occurring species. But I haven't seen the data. Not saying it's not true, just that I haven't read the research.

In the case of the Angolan Giant Sable, cross breeding with Standard Sable has occurred and is even being encouraged, I believe, as the surviving population is so low. I haven't seen any data on this program for a few years, but the intention was to keep the program and the existing population under wraps for security and success of the endeavor. War is tough on animal populations.