I think this thread has been JACKED

I hunted with a German outfitter who was in camp hunting with two German clients. Although they conversed in German, they made attempts to include me in the conversation. In Cameroon, everyone including the people who I shared the camp with spoke French, yet again they were very accommodating an I rarely felt left out. This sprinkling of different cultures made both hunts cool. And shame on me for only being fluent in one language. Then I shared a camp with two Englishmen, and I didn't have a clue what in the Hell they were talking about most of the time!

My experience thus far with Afrikaans is not so good. It was my first hunt, in SA, and the owner of the operation was a real piece of work. I never saw him eat, just drink, drunk from morning until night. Ex Army Col, spoke (slurred) often of how he and his pals were planning to put things "back to how they used to be". He'd talk to the PH I was hunting with in Afrikaans and it was obvious they were talking about me, and per the PH it usually revolved around how to get more money out of my pocket. I am sure there are some great Afrikaans, but he was not one of them.

PS - I don't know anything about Highveldt.

Jeff, yes it has been hijacked, however, I consider the level of discourse to be higher than usual, which is a definite plus! I am wondering however, if Afrikaans is like the French language ie. fiercely defended but getting rather passe as the English language becomes the "lingua franca". That's why I asked my question above.
Peter.

Sorry but the Quebecois are about as bilinglual as the parisians or a lot of americans. They expect everyone to speak their lanuage period. That is as unreasonable as many of us from the states expecting everyone to speak english. It is also just as rude. If you can speak the language even poorly you should try when in a foreign country from your own. You should also speak the language of the foreinger if you can to make them feel more comfortable. It dosnt matter what language it is. You are correct in that this thread has been hijacked. I apologize for my part.

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Martin,
Next time your at my house for a nice steak dinner, I'm assuming we all speak english, my wife and I will converse in Spanish. your post indicates you should learn Spanish or eat somewhere else. Common courtesy dictates we all speak the common language that everybody understands.
Chipolopolo

Mas cervasas por favor

Hey martin how's this for english FUCK YOU

Some of ya'll need to spend some time in South Texas. There's english, spanish and some language spoken by the manual laborers that only they understand.

My trip to S Africa was quite good. I found everyone spoke excellent english and made every effort to speak it or explain what they were saying unless they were talking with a tracker or maid. I also found the S Africans to be overly, shall I say, proper? That I'm sure was the product of a very professional owner/operator.
I couldn't have been more pleased with the folks there.

Heck, I would have loved to have shipped my dall ram guide in Alaska to S Africa for some proper manners and professionalism. For all I care they could have used him for rugby practice.

Understandably, hunters get annoyed when the PH's speak another language to their friends/workers/collegues. We forget that it is just as annoying when hunters/observers jabber away in another language in front of the PH, not including him - while they are perfectly capable of speaking English. And that's done for basically the same reasons as were mentioned here - it being akward speaking to a friend or family in a second or third language. Hunters from Europe tend do this a lot - not because they are inherently rude, but because thay can. But, it remains an uncomfortable thing to experience ...

What do you call someone who speaks three languages? Trilingual.

What do you call someone who speaks two languages? Bilingual.

What do you call someone who speaks one language? An American.

My last PH spoke at least five languages. Swahili, Arabic, English, Maasai, and Kikuyu. Maybe more than that, but I didn't ask him.

It's ridiculous for a tourist hunter to expect to constantly hear English spoken. My PH always made sure I knew what was going on and often translated what the trackers, game scout and driver were saying. I never felt left out of anything.

Which one will end first...this thread, or my crapy experience with Highveldt Taxidermy? I have an idea but I'm not willing to wager anything.

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Mas cervasas por favor

What's a "cervasas" some weird french-Canadian drink? jorge

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I wonder if a commission was involved.

It's the African way! Of course one was involved. I don't necessarily care that it happens, I just find it refreshing when someone involved with it admits that it happens.

What, don't commissions happen in America then?

Funny that. I seem to remember the Times of London publishing a piece the other day where a group of US Judges in the juvenile court had been caught taking commissions on every youngster they sent down rather than put on probation etc........ Maybe the paper got it wrong though? http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t...s/article5864483.ece

C'mon guys, commissions are perfectly legitmate in most businesses all over the world. Whether it's cars, planes, medical services, insurances or almost anything else. There's even immense companies such as commission junction make fortunes out of it. Hell, even Cabela's pay commissions through their affiliate programme.

What you've got to remember is that no-one but an idiot would send business to a wrong 'un simply because he wants the client to come back and therefore his first loyalty will lie with his client. Other examples is a GP wouldn't send his patient to a bad surgeon and a lawyer wouldn't send his client to a bad barrister. Both however, will get some kind of referral fee aka commission somewhere along the line.

South Africa or Africa is no better and no worse than anywhere else in the world.

Steve,

You are correct about the commission situation here in America. It happens more than people know or care to know and of course the cost is passed onto the consumer. I am a CPA here and in the past have conducted audits of all types of businesses and have seen all kinds of "commission" arrangements some are even written into contracts.

A little back to Highveldt, I have never used them but have toured their place and the work I saw there looked very good. They even had some pieces that they had done for some museums. I just prefer to have my taxidermy done close by so I can readily see the progress and have anything changed as I see fit.

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:

quote:

Mas cervasas por favor

What's a "cervasas" some weird french-Canadian drink? jorge

Mexican for "beer"

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Originally posted by chipolopolo:

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:

quote:

Mas cervasas por favor

What's a "cervasas" some weird french-Canadian drink? jorge

Mexican for "beer"

That would be "cerveza."

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Originally posted by chipolopolo:

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:

quote:

Mas cervasas por favor

What's a "cervasas" some weird french-Canadian drink? jorge

Mexican for "beer"

No, "cerveza" would be Spanish for beer. There is no such thing as the Mexican language, even though I find their accent pedantic...jorge

quote:

Originally posted by chipolopolo:
Jet,
not to worry, I learned that in RSA everything is greased. The Outfitter get his the PH gets his the dip & pack gets his. Nobody does nothin for good service or integrity. It just a little what what here and there. To bad some over there could give shit.
Chipolopolo

I will agree Chipolopolo's post about kick backs is not 100% true. But there are far to many African outfitters that use a taxidermist's or shipping agent solely because they pay them the best kick back. I can tell you more hunters would return to South Africa if the outfitters made sure the clients were not getting ripped off by over charging taxidermists and shipping agents they recommend!

Yes kick backs are paid by some taxidermists here in the US and many parts of the world. Most of the time it's a guy doing piss poor work and it the only way he can get taxidermy work. I know of a guy in Florida that pays a 50% kick back to "anybody" that sends him fish. You can guess how good his work is and how many repeat clients he gets! Here in Alaska kick backs are by law illegal - of coarse it impossible to enforce and there are always somebody that in it solely for the money. Call what you want, Just don't call it a Ethical way to conduct business.

Commissions are totally different! Booking agents and Insurance agents are perfectly legitimate examples were commissions are paid to the "Salesman". The client knows hes is bing sold a product and the agents is bing paid a commission .

A great example of hidden commission arrangements is lawyers. Nobody will every accuse them of Honesty & Integrity!

BTW the judges who took the "commisions" will soon be taking an extended vacation and get to experience the justice system from the other side. That taxidermst in florida wouldnt be Grays would it. Another totally Bs opertion who rips more people off than any other I have seen in the states. Now back to Highveld. I have never dealt with them. when I visited their studio I was so unimpressed i told the ph with me no way. I checked out a couple of others and was pleased with what I saw.

I know alot of Phs get kick backs and thats why they will push a certain taxidermist.A year ago i was hunting with with a PH and i asked him who does he suggest to his clients.His answer to me was he doesnt.He said he was in the hunting business not taxidermy.He said if something goes wrong he gets the phone call from the client,If its late,got lost, wasnt done proply he gets the phone call and gets into trouble by the customer.He said its just not worth the 10% that he would get as a kick back or losing the customer over.He said if the client really insists he will suggest at least two taxidermist but the client must make up his own mind of were they must go and he must make all payment direct without involving him.,

HIGHVELD is like old people screwing..... Slow and not much to look at!

quote:

Originally posted by jimmara:
I know alot of Phs get kick backs and thats why they will push a certain taxidermist.A year ago i was hunting with with a PH and i asked him who does he suggest to his clients.His answer to me was he doesnt.He said he was in the hunting business not taxidermy.He said if something goes wrong he gets the phone call from the client,If its late,got lost, wasnt done proply he gets the phone call and gets into trouble by the customer.He said its just not worth the 10% that he would get as a kick back or losing the customer over.He said if the client really insists he will suggest at least two taxidermist but the client must make up his own mind of were they must go and he must make all payment direct without involving him.,

The sad truth is that the Outfitter is by law forced to make sure the client gets his trophies, only then is the hunt over...... It is one of the things that will hopefuly re-addressed under the new proposed legislation. It is a bit blaze of someoen to say they do not care.....

This thread is a big part of the reason why we bought shares in a very well known taxidermy business, and is setting up a satelite shop on our ranch. Then we have a direct stake in what's going on, and I have control over my clients trophies..... The shipping agents is a new story all together......

quote:

Originally posted by 8x60s:
It would appear Chipolopolo has amassive chip on his shoulder

As a matter of fact Chip is a very balanced person he has a chip on every shoulder

chip you have a reason to be unhappy but it only makes sense that a outfitter wants the best for his client and if a taxidermist buggers your client around you must sort it out that is the only way you will get return business ifyou look after your clients they will look after you and if you think your taxidermist is more important than your client you will soon have no trophies to take to your taxidermist.

the best man for the job and you are only as good as your last job that is my motto in live

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:

quote:

Originally posted by chipolopolo:

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:

quote:

Mas cervasas por favor

What's a "cervasas" some weird french-Canadian drink? jorge

Mexican for "beer"

No, "cerveza" would be Spanish for beer. There is no such thing as the Mexican language, even though I find their accent pedantic...jorge

Point taken, although Spanish is the national language of Mexico. It therefore follows that "Mexican" for beer would be "cerveza", (that's what I always said when I was in Mexico, usually followed by the brand name, such as "Corona" or "Dos Equis", followed by "Por favor"), unless the Mexican speaks English and finds himself in a bar in Brooklyn. There, he would most likely say, "Beer" or "Gimmie a Bud", or something like that.

Sorry if I came across like a smart ass Jet, (I am!) I was just reacting to the original poster's lack of knowledge. Not you! jorge

Jorge,
My lack of knowledge? have you been chased out a tent on the border at 2 am by MEXICAN ILLEGALS, have you lost a job to a MEXICAN ILLEGAL? Its god damn Mexican down here where I call home, brother.

And .375, I thought we were becoming pals? Now your going to make me post that conversation we had about those "nut cutter" shorts you guys wear over there.

quote:

Originally posted by chipolopolo:
And .375, I thought we were becoming pals? Now your going to make me post that conversation we had about those "nut cutter" shorts you guys wear over there.

The guys imported that pants from Phoenix Arizona apparantly they are a top seller there and in high fashon the okes here just cut the suspender part of

[/QUOTE]
The guys imported that pants from Phoenix Arizona apparantly they are a top seller there and in high fashon the okes here just cut the suspender part of [/QUOTE]

Infinito.Is that a law in south africa only or in africa in General.
At least if you give your client a choice of taxedermist to go to he cant blame you if their impala comes out looking like a reedbuck.

quote:

Originally posted by chipolopolo:
Jorge,
My lack of knowledge? have you been chased out a tent on the border at 2 am by MEXICAN ILLEGALS, have you lost a job to a MEXICAN ILLEGAL? Its god damn Mexican down here where I call home, brother.

And .375, I thought we were becoming pals? Now your going to make me post that conversation we had about those "nut cutter" shorts you guys wear over there.

No biggie, I try to as accurate as I can on all my posts to preserve credibility and there is no such language as "Mexican" although I must admit I find it amusing, kinds like when people say "ax" instead of "ask"...jorge

quote:

No biggie, I try to as accurate as I can on all my posts to preserve credibility and there is no such language as "Mexican" although I must admit I find it amusing, kinds like when people say "ax" instead of "ask"...jorge

Looks to me like your the one with language difficulties on this thread
Chipolopolo

quote:

Originally posted by jimmara:
Infinito.Is that a law in south africa only or in africa in General.
At least if you give your client a choice of taxedermist to go to he cant blame you if their impala comes out looking like a reedbuck.

Sir, It is only in South Africa as far as I know. Outfitter keeps responsibility untill you open the crates back home.

QUOTE]Originally posted by infinito:

quote:

Originally posted by jimmara:
Infinito.Is that a law in south africa only or in africa in General.
At least if you give your client a choice of taxedermist to go to he cant blame you if their impala comes out looking like a reedbuck.

Sir, It is only in South Africa as far as I know. Outfitter keeps responsibility untill you open the crates back home.[/QUOTE]

Charl,

With all due respect and in a friendly and non-confrontational manner, I want to disagree with the statement that it is a 'law' that a South African Hunting Outfitter remains 'legally' responsible to ensure that his client gets his trophies.

It can indeed become a 'legal requirement', as you say, if, and only if, a clause to this effect is included in the Remuneration Agreement between the outfitter and the client. Then it is part of a contract that the hunting outfitter has to legally adhere to under South African contract laws. I include a clause in the RA for all my clients in which it is clearly spelled out that my responsibility towards the client’s trophies ends with the delivery of the properly field prepared trophies and his instructions to the taxidermist of his choice.

It is admitted that I do not know all the nine Provinces' Nature Conservation Ordinances and the Regulations published well enough to state categorically that there is no regulation published that makes the Hunting Outfitter legally responsible to ensure that a client gets his trophies. I have certainly not seen anything like that in the regulations pertaining to those provinces in which I act as a HO. If there is such a regulation in any that you know of, please post the relevant quote and prove me wrong!

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

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"ax" instead of "ask"...jorge

Jorge, did you miss the Diversity Training class in the Navy?!!! Having said that. that is one my my (many) pet peeves, especially from educators!
Peter.

Yep. And I went out of my way to correct them
jorge

I wonder if something has happened at Highveldt. I got all of my heads mounted there in 06 and they look great and arrived in Canada within the year as promised at the agreed price. A friend went a year later, May 07, he also used Highveldt and I don't think he's seen his taxidermy yet. I'm feeling a little bad because I think I influenced his decision to send them there a bit. Now I'm hearing the original posters story and it makes me wonder what's going on there.

I think part of the problem is the taxidermist does not give you a choice of shipping agents. You have to right to ship with whomever you chose. However they point you to the person greasing their dirty hands. Then the shipping agent is beholding to the taxidermist. We the "customer"
is squeezed for whatever they can get. NEVER AGAIN WILL I USE AN AFRICAN TAXIDERMIST.
I know all are bad, I hate to paint all with the same brush, but when your trophies are in Africa
YOU HAVE LITTLE TO NO RECOURSE. At least here in the states you can hire a attorney.

Got a story to tell want to make sure my trophies are in the air.

I have always tried not to be rude and would ask questions if another language was used to get what was going on...
But I also remember somebody commenting about the ph making a rude comment about the clients wife in Africanns, but the mistake was that the client knew the language..

Mike

My hunt was in September of 07. Trophies were in there shop and funds were transferred to them before the end os September so work could begin right away. Still no trophies and no date given when I might expect them.Guess I will get them when I get them.

They recently asked for final payment but made no arrangements for shipping so .......

quote:

Originally posted by eyedoc:
My hunt was in September of 07. Trophies were in there shop and funds were transferred to them before the end os September so work could begin right away. Still no trophies and no date given when I might expect them.Guess I will get them when I get them.

They recently asked for final payment but made no arrangements for shipping so .......

Eyedoc, same thing here. I asked for the shipping box size and weight. They (another taxidermist) could not supply. I told them when you have it boxed and give me the size and weight, I will make final payment.
NEVER AGAIN WITH A AFRICAN TAXIDERMIST