THE ACCURATERELOADING.COM AFRICAN HUNTING FORUM

Accuratereloading.com    The Accurate Reloading Forums    THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS  Hop To Forum Categories  Hunting  Hop To Forums  African Big Game Hunting    Modern technology for follow up on wounded dangerous game, yes or no?

Moderators: Saeed
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Modern technology for follow up on wounded dangerous game, yes or no?
 Login/Join
 
One of Us
posted
After taking part in following up a shot at Leopard lately I realize quite a lot of the truly dangerous parts of dangerous game hunting, ie following the wounded ones in thick cover and or bad light can be made a lot less dangerous by using modern technology available to the public at this point.

I am thinking of drones and thermal cameras. Enabling you to locate the animal from a safe place and let you know exactly where the threat is as you go in to finish what has been started. Or potentially see that same animal still running and get a chance to intercept it as quickly as possible instead of a long and potentially difficult tracking job to get there.

Positive things as I look at it would be less time from wounding until finishing of the animal and a lot less chance of PHs and trackers getting hurt or killed in the process.

Negatives can probably become a fairly long list. Ethics, sportsmanship, taking the danger out of dangerous game hunting, just to name a few.


Let me know what you think, I am genuinely interested in hearing your thoughts on this.
Also, if you know of someone already using this technology please let me know. I am fairly surprised if this is not yet in use in the hunting industry as it is fairly commonplace in other settings of finding “bad guys” so to speak.

Klein
 
Posts: 101 | Location: Sweden | Registered: 03 March 2008Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Klein:
After taking part in following up a shot at Leopard lately I realize quite a lot of the truly dangerous parts of dangerous game hunting, ie following the wounded ones in thick cover and or bad light can be made a lot less dangerous by using modern technology available to the public at this point.

I am thinking of drones and thermal cameras. Enabling you to locate the animal from a safe place and let you know exactly where the threat is as you go in to finish what has been started. Or potentially see that same animal still running and get a chance to intercept it as quickly as possible instead of a long and potentially difficult tracking job to get there.

Positive things as I look at it would be less time from wounding until finishing of the animal and a lot less chance of PHs and trackers getting hurt or killed in the process.

Negatives can probably become a fairly long list. Ethics, sportsmanship, taking the danger out of dangerous game hunting, just to name a few.


Let me know what you think, I am genuinely interested in hearing your thoughts on this.
Also, if you know of someone already using this technology please let me know. I am fairly surprised if this is not yet in use in the hunting industry as it is fairly commonplace in other settings of finding “bad guys” so to speak.

Klein


It has become somewhat common in the US for deer recovery. There’s an entire YouTube Channel on it. Interestingly a guy just had his drone confiscated under the guise it was used to “hunt” the animal vs. “recovering” the animal (and the entire thing was a clear set up by the Game Warden)
It’s rather amazing watching the videos where the drones locate the heat signatures and how they zoom in.
The technology could save lives for sure but there are certainly questions as to how the technology is used ethically
 
Posts: 99 | Registered: 05 June 2022Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of bwanamrm
posted Hide Post
Whether one considers it ethical or not, I am seeing the use of thermal monoculars more and more in Europe and Asia. In the thick forests it can identify where the animal is and leads to easier recovery. I have not seen drones used except in filming videos. Personally, especially on cats followed up in the dark I am agnostic on using thermal technology. If it prevents serious injuries or death, or aids in recovery of a trophy, why not? As long as it is LEGAL, I'm okay with it.


On the plains of hesitation lie the bleached bones of ten thousand, who on the dawn of victory lay down their weary heads resting, and there resting, died.

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch...
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!
- Rudyard Kipling

Life grows grim without senseless indulgence.
 
Posts: 7532 | Location: Victoria, Texas | Registered: 30 March 2003Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
As a person who has both drones and thermal imaging equipment, my opinion is that they might be helpful. They also might be completely useless under the right set of circumstances .

For example , it would be useless on those animals who have run a long way . In some cases, this can be miles . I also doubt the effectiveness of the thermal imaging in very thick cover .

For something that has not gone far , they might be beneficial.

Also, I have been told that it is illegal to take thermal imaging equipment out of the country.
 
Posts: 11995 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: 26 January 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Hunting in its true form is the pursuit of a game animal by a hunter. Your skill and accomplishment is in the stalking getting close and then killing the animal cleanly and as quickly as possible. Not just going on a hunt to kill an animal by any means possible.

The functioning of rifles have changed barely from the 1900s to now. What has changed vastly is superior optics, enabling one to shoot something at longer ranges, which in turn has diminished our skills as hunters. I bet that probably 70% of people who have shot Marco Polo and other mountain game in recent year would never have been able to without modern optics.

Ethics and legal biz aside one can keep adding layers of better and more modern technology to kill an animal whose wits have not changed.

I see posts on social media of someone with world record size animals that he takes on every hunt. How is this earthly possible? Surely a helicopter was involved. Do we next debate which model of heli is better than the other.

It will be a sad day when we lose sight of the true objective of why we hunt.

In my opinion (not to point a finger at the person who started this post) if you don't have the experience and stomach to follow a wounded dangerous game animal then you should not be hunting one. To me its akin to getting in to a boxing ring saying I hope i don't get punched!

At what point is enough enough! Only you can answer this question.


Arjun Reddy
Hunters Networks LLC
www.huntersnetworks.com
30 Ivy Hill Road
Brewster, NY 10509
Tel: +1 845 259 3628

Watch GUNSTIX Shooting Sticks in action
Short version https://youtu.be/HYoF1nR9JFo?si=aUeCBW_G5OJAK26f
Long version https://youtu.be/NJ96K8T-ttc

2024 SHOW BOOTHS:
DSC (Dallas 11th-14th January) booth #950
SCI (Nashville 31st Jan-3rd Feb) booth #411
Western Hunting and Conservation Expo (Salt lake city 15th-18th February) booth # 319
 
Posts: 2539 | Location: New York, USA | Registered: 13 March 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Steve Ahrenberg
posted Hide Post
I may be in the minority on this one, and here's why.

The hunting of Dangerous Game, is just that, potentially dangerous. If one isn't in it from the very beginning, to the very end, regardless of the amount of danger involved, stick to hunting Kudu. (which also can be dangerous)

Are we really at a place technalogically that we are looking to lessen the very "alive" feeling of tracking wounded, dangerous stuff into impossibly thick cover?

I spent hours with Alister Norton following up a wounded Lion, in some of the nastiest stuff the Luangwa valley had to offer. It was my poor shot that caused it. After killing it in a charge, I HAVE NEVER FELT SO ALIVE.

Following up Buffalo is always interesting and it's the adrenaline of that follow-up I seek. I want no artificial aids in changing one of the last true adventures on this planet.


Formerly "Nganga"
 
Posts: 3406 | Location: Phoenix, Arizona | Registered: 26 April 2010Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of BaxterB
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
I may be in the minority on this one, and here's why.

The hunting of Dangerous Game, is just that, potentially dangerous. If one isn't in it from the very beginning, to the very end, regardless of the amount of danger involved, stick to hunting Kudu. (which also can be dangerous)

Are we really at a place technalogically that we are looking to lessen the very "alive" feeling of tracking wounded, dangerous stuff into impossibly thick cover?

I spent hours with Alister Norton following up a wounded Lion, in some of the nastiest stuff the Luangwa valley had to offer. It was my poor shot that caused it. After killing it in a charge, I HAVE NEVER FELT SO ALIVE.

Following up Buffalo is always interesting and it's the adrenaline of that follow-up I seek. I want no artificial aids in changing one of the last true adventures on this planet.



I agree with this. Tech creep is getting ridiculous.
 
Posts: 7791 | Registered: 31 January 2005Reply With Quote
Administrator
posted Hide Post
I have been using drones ever since they came out.

Even when I had to install my own camera on it.

But, we have never used them for actual hunting.

Like to locate game.

We only use them after the hunt is finished.

Or for scenery.

Never tried any thermal instruments.

In all my hunting, we have been following the same old system.

Anytime an animal is shot, we follow it Immediately.

Regardless where it goes.

We don’t wait.

We have had a few hairy situations, but never had any problems.


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
 
Posts: 67036 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
I appreciate the perspectives above, but would ask if the trackers get a vote? None of us want to be stomped, gored, or mauled, and that would go for the trackers also. I'm skeptical that a drone would be of much use. I've used thermal and it would often be useful. One challenge would be that southern Africa is generally warmer than Idaho. In cold weather I can see the tracks left by my dogs. In light cover, thermal would reveal the animal. But in very thick cover, no joy.

But two problems. First, using thermal means that one is holding and looking through the device, instead of holding a rifle and being prepared for a charge. A wounded leopard is a considerably different challenge than a wounded deer! Second, as already mentioned, export from the USA would be illegal.
 
Posts: 110 | Location: Idaho | Registered: 07 October 2015Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Todd Williams
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
I may be in the minority on this one, and here's why.

The hunting of Dangerous Game, is just that, potentially dangerous. If one isn't in it from the very beginning, to the very end, regardless of the amount of danger involved, stick to hunting Kudu. (which also can be dangerous)

Are we really at a place technalogically that we are looking to lessen the very "alive" feeling of tracking wounded, dangerous stuff into impossibly thick cover?

I spent hours with Alister Norton following up a wounded Lion, in some of the nastiest stuff the Luangwa valley had to offer. It was my poor shot that caused it. After killing it in a charge, I HAVE NEVER FELT SO ALIVE.

Following up Buffalo is always interesting and it's the adrenaline of that follow-up I seek. I want no artificial aids in changing one of the last true adventures on this planet.



THIS. 100%
 
Posts: 8497 | Registered: 09 January 2011Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Skyline
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
I may be in the minority on this one, and here's why.

The hunting of Dangerous Game, is just that, potentially dangerous. If one isn't in it from the very beginning, to the very end, regardless of the amount of danger involved, stick to hunting Kudu. (which also can be dangerous)

Are we really at a place technalogically that we are looking to lessen the very "alive" feeling of tracking wounded, dangerous stuff into impossibly thick cover?

I spent hours with Alister Norton following up a wounded Lion, in some of the nastiest stuff the Luangwa valley had to offer. It was my poor shot that caused it. After killing it in a charge, I HAVE NEVER FELT SO ALIVE.

Following up Buffalo is always interesting and it's the adrenaline of that follow-up I seek. I want no artificial aids in changing one of the last true adventures on this planet.


tu2


______________________________________________

The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who are bereft of that gift.



 
Posts: 1814 | Location: Northern Rockies, BC | Registered: 21 July 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Agree with Steve and Todd also.
Normaly if you are into a potentially dangerous situation tracking down a wounded animal is because you did something wrong.
You are putting your life and your team,s lifes in danger. You should not be willing to make things less risky for yourself, in fact, it should be you the one leading (In my opinion).
I had to track a wounded lion this year and the only thing I didnt completely like of it is not being the one leading the track, because it was me the one who made the problem.
Dangerous hunting is dangerous, we all have lost friends on this, we are not putting our lives in risk as a hobby, but this kind of situation might happen and you must be ready to take it as it comes, otherwise, do not go for this kind of hunt.
I want to underline something, hunting is not a hobby, hunting is a way of living, thats why Steve felt himself so "alive" doing it.
 
Posts: 197 | Registered: 10 October 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
I had to track a wounded lion this year and the only thing I didn't completely like of it is not being the one leading the track, because it was me the one who made the problem.


It is the sacred duty of the PH to take care of such situations and ensure the safety of his client .... one of the reasons why he is a PH.

And, all the fancy gadgets that have invaded this once noble industry, the term "sport hunting" has lost its charm.
Would I consider deploying thermal imaging equipment? No.

If you want to take up the challenge of hunting DG then be prepared to face the dangers involved which in all fairness are few and far between and definitely not a game of Russian roulette.
 
Posts: 1910 | Registered: 06 September 2008Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Guys,

I just completed a hunt in the UK and Spain. Everybody had thermal monocular units. For what we were doing I think they were a great help. You can scan a wooded hillside and see where the animals are. They also have an incredible range. The guy I shot the Sika with tracked with the thermal and found the deer in about 5 minutes even though there was no real blood trail.

Follow up on dangerous game? I'm not sure. As already stated your not ready to shoot if your looking through the thermal. I also think it would take away from the whole experience.

Mark


MARK H. YOUNG
MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES
7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110
Office 702-848-1693
Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED
E-mail markttc@msn.com
Website: myexclusiveadventures.com
Skype: markhyhunter
Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716
 
Posts: 12877 | Location: LAS VEGAS, NV USA | Registered: 04 August 2002Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
While I feel it has no place in hunting, I’m not a professional, and I’m in the position that I’ve done it probably more than my fair share of times.

This is an interesting ethical question. Is the duty owed to the animal for a humane kill, and the PH and tracker’s risk to life and limb outweigh the slippery slope of using the equipment to remove the element of fair chase?

To me, this is where the PH associations should have a role. This is an ethical debate.
 
Posts: 10666 | Location: Minnesota USA | Registered: 15 June 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Steve Ahrenberg
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Guys,

I just completed a hunt in the UK and Spain. Everybody had thermal monocular units. For what we were doing I think they were a great help. You can scan a wooded hillside and see where the animals are. They also have an incredible range. The guy I shot the Sika with tracked with the thermal and found the deer in about 5 minutes even though there was no real blood trail.

Follow up on dangerous game? I'm not sure. As already stated your not ready to shoot if your looking through the thermal. I also think it would take away from the whole experience.

Mark


Mark -

Do you feel this was a Fair Chase hunt? No right or wrong, just curious.


Formerly "Nganga"
 
Posts: 3406 | Location: Phoenix, Arizona | Registered: 26 April 2010Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Bivoj
posted Hide Post
You can add technologically superior magnum ammo, superior scopes with automatic distance turrets, compound bow that you only hold fraction of weight and you can fairly easy kill animals past 70-80 yards and we can go on and on and on
At the same time, there is more game to hunt then in probably 100 plus years of modern times with some of the greatest conservation
So really there is no right answer, it’s just that when it comes to hunting, we are living in GOOD OLD DAYS


Nothing like standing over your own kill
 
Posts: 617 | Location: Wherever hunting is good and Go Trump | Registered: 17 June 2023Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of MJines
posted Hide Post
So if thermals are unsporting, how about dogs? Is hunting mountain lion, leopard, bear, bongo, etc. with dogs unsporting since the dogs are finding the game? What about using dogs to track and bay wounded game or track and find dead game? My only point is that sometimes it seems that the lines we draw can get pretty thin and awfully subjective. I also think time and common practice have a way of validating practices that may have been viewed as sketchy by some at one time. Thermals are bad, but binos and spotting scopes are okay? Drones are bad but in the hay day of the safari business airplanes were used by some of the doyens in the hunting industry to locate large tuskers. Rangefinders are common today used in conjunction with scopes that have turrets that can be adjusted per the rangefinder data. Sporting? Interesting that thermals are so commonly used in Europe, a place where I find, in general, hunters have a much stronger history of ethical hunting than in most parts of the world, including the US.


Mike
 
Posts: 21241 | Registered: 03 January 2006Reply With Quote
Administrator
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Guys,

I just completed a hunt in the UK and Spain. Everybody had thermal monocular units. For what we were doing I think they were a great help. You can scan a wooded hillside and see where the animals are. They also have an incredible range. The guy I shot the Sika with tracked with the thermal and found the deer in about 5 minutes even though there was no real blood trail.

Follow up on dangerous game? I'm not sure. As already stated your not ready to shoot if your looking through the thermal. I also think it would take away from the whole experience.

Mark


One more reason you won't find me hunting there!

Trackers are always on my mind when I am following a wounded animal.

A few years ago I shot a lion just before sunset.

He took off into grass and bush, I could not shoot him again.

Sun was below the trees, and visibility was not very good.

They took his tracks, two of them.

Alan and me walked side by side, I kept moving into new position as each tracker moved, trying my best to get a better chance at a shot if the lion jumps up.

It took us a bit of time to cover a few yards.

One our trackers saw the lion, dead, 3 yards away!

The professional hunter will try his best, but I guarantee you things can go south very quickly, depending on the situation, where he has no chance in hell in saving your skin.

I don't like gadgets on a hunt.

They are fine to use, but most definitely NOT during the hunt.

I have taken night visions and heat seekers.

We try them out of camp, but never, ever during a hunt.


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
 
Posts: 67036 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Difficult question, worthy of asking. When hunting Muntjac or foxes in the UK I always carry a monocular thermal. If a Muntjac isn't pinned with two broken shoulders or a smashed CNS your chances of finding one in head high blackberry tangles without a dog or a thermal is low.
If I was an African tracker offered a thermal when following a wounded leopard I would grab it. Having said that it would be virtuously useless in rocky country in the evening where every stone would shine bright. No problem taking them to Africa from countries outside the USA. They are common in South Africa.
Would I use one myself when following up wounded DG? NO.
Would I object if a PH handed one to a tracker when following a leopard? No. If you objected and the tracker got carved up how would you live with yourself?
Drones? A very slippery slope!
What is the point of a muzzle loading season in the USA when people use modern barrels and scopes? Should the bow season be confined to long bows?
In 50 years time will they be debating how sporting laser guns are?
Each of us has to decide in each different situation what we personally find sporting. I will be using a thermal this evening when culling rabbits and possums in my Avocado orchard.
 
Posts: 296 | Location: New Zealand  | Registered: 24 March 2018Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
In 50 years time will they be debating how sporting laser guns are?


In 50 years from now due to the anti-hunting politics and the way they are gaining ground, I very much doubt there will be much if any, hunting allowed.
 
Posts: 1910 | Registered: 06 September 2008Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Great discussion! First one in awhile without mud slinging or Jeffive calling me a cunt...

Anyway, I see this both ways.
On DG, make your shot count, allow the PH to shoot a follow up. That takes care of most issues. If you lose one, sometimes I see the PH's use dogs. So, why not thermal imaging to find heat in the low light? Dogs are better but I would use thermal imaging to end this quickly.

I have experienced one full on lion charge and one buffalo that just ran in my direction. In both cases, they were dead but had enough life left to do me some damage. The PH's shot in both cases as did I and it ended.

However, if I had "lost" the buff or lion at the end of the day, I would use thermals to find them. I see this no differently that using extra PH or dogs or extra local guys to help out.

As to locating game, I have used thermals on hogs and coyotes. Works great.

So, there is an ethics line on this. I suggest we each listen to the other and see where we land.
 
Posts: 10207 | Location: Texas... time to secede!! | Registered: 12 February 2004Reply With Quote
Administrator
posted Hide Post
I think ethics end where human life is in danger here.

In a bad situation, I would use whatever is in my position to end the problem!


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
 
Posts: 67036 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Steve Ahrenberg
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by dogcat:
Great discussion! First one in awhile without mud slinging or Jeffive calling me a cunt...

Anyway, I see this both ways.
On DG, make your shot count, allow the PH to shoot a follow up. That takes care of most issues. If you lose one, sometimes I see the PH's use dogs. So, why not thermal imaging to find heat in the low light? Dogs are better but I would use thermal imaging to end this quickly.

I have experienced one full on lion charge and one buffalo that just ran in my direction. In both cases, they were dead but had enough life left to do me some damage. The PH's shot in both cases as did I and it ended.

However, if I had "lost" the buff or lion at the end of the day, I would use thermals to find them. I see this no differently that using extra PH or dogs or extra local guys to help out.

As to locating game, I have used thermals on hogs and coyotes. Works great.

So, there is an ethics line on this. I suggest we each listen to the other and see where we land.


Great, intuitive post. And yes, great discussion.

Yea, I had to depart the P&G myself. Any disagreement with the "mob" results in wide use of expletives. I lost mucho respect for several members due to their inability to discuss without being called names such as you were.

As to use of technologies in DG hunting. I think we, for the most part are a romantic group. We care about the romance and traditions of old Africa, and try to hunt in that same manner. (I do)

Once I leave the cruiser, on track of say, Buffalo, we are doing absolutely nothing different than the old timers did. We tend to use old and traditional African cartridges, extensive use of Doubles and Express rifles.

For me, the romance and traditions of old Africa are important. I won't even use trail camera's to hunt cats. Silly? Perhaps. But from my time watching pro's like Wayne Grant, Alister Norton set baits, and analyze tracks, mane hairs they aren't really necessary?

I hunted Tanzania with an American guy. He had no clue of how to get a cat in a tree. It was obvious, he couldn't get a Leopard in a tree if there were 1000 Leopards and only one tree.

The delta between real experienced Cat hunters and that fellow was stark.

Dogs; I have had interesting discussions about the use of dogs with my wife. She isn't really a hunter but has pretty strong opinions as to the Fair Chase nature of dogs. She has really made me think about that. And to be honest, my mind isn't really even made up yet.


Formerly "Nganga"
 
Posts: 3406 | Location: Phoenix, Arizona | Registered: 26 April 2010Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Steve Ahrenberg
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
I think ethics end where human life is in danger here.

In a bad situation, I would use whatever is in my position to end the problem!


I can understand the part about human life being in danger. But isn't it all by our own choice?

Once it goes sideways, are we to lean on technology for help?


Formerly "Nganga"
 
Posts: 3406 | Location: Phoenix, Arizona | Registered: 26 April 2010Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
I can understand the part about human life being in danger. But isn't it ll by choice?

One it goes sideways, are we to lean on technology for help?


Problem issues have always been conducted and concluded without use of gadgets other than the use of artificial light in the event of a follow-up on a cat in the darkness; others are left until morning and are usually found dead, on their last legs or rather pissed off and material to trigger the adrenaline flow.

If not encountered, they can be considered as survivors and classified as "wounded and lost".

Mishaps have been rare (few and far between) and those that have had consequences are mainly due to negligence though more people have either been injured or even killed by "friendly fire" than by a mauling or a goring.
 
Posts: 1910 | Registered: 06 September 2008Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Good discission but there's another consideration: Once you've wounded an animal do you not have a responsibility to finish it as quickly and humanely as possible?

A technology that might be wholly inappropriate for locating game before the shot might allow matters to be brought to a conclusion quicker and cleaner afterwards.


"If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump
 
Posts: 9580 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: 09 December 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Once you've wounded an animal do you not have a responsibility to finish it as quickly and humanely as possible?


That would be the ethical side of the equation though is not always doable seeing most African states do not allow hunting after sundown other than exceptions by some to time being extended to "last light" when hunting Leopard in particular but where following up on a wounded one has no time limit.

Any other species of game are supposed to be hunted between sunrise and sunset and if a wounded animal is not recovered before total darkness, it is to be followed up the next morning to be found or not, eaten by Hyenas or whatever is immaterial.

It is also doubtful that a thermal imaging device would be that effective in dense thickets where a wounded cat would take cover but where a powerful flashlight would immediately pick up its eyes.

Maybe we should just try and keep DG hunting as traditional as possible and accept the "bells & whistles" that technology has given us for our welfare and comfort back in camp.
 
Posts: 1910 | Registered: 06 September 2008Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by fulvio:
quote:
Once you've wounded an animal do you not have a responsibility to finish it as quickly and humanely as possible?


That would be the ethical side of the equation though is not always doable seeing most African states do not allow hunting after sundown other than exceptions by some to time being extended to "last light" when hunting Leopard in particular but where following up on a wounded one has no time limit.

What rules and methods of hunting are applied on a private ranch is another kettle of fish altogether.

Any other species of game are supposed to be hunted between sunrise and sunset and if a wounded animal is not recovered before total darkness, it is to be followed up the next morning to be found or not, eaten by Hyenas or whatever is immaterial.

It is also doubtful that a thermal imaging device would be that effective in dense thickets where a wounded cat would take cover but where a powerful flashlight would immediately pick up its eyes.

Maybe we should just try and keep DG hunting as traditional as possible and accept the "bells & whistles" that technology has given us for our welfare and comfort back in camp.


The thermal scanner also presupposes that the target wounded animal is the only animal in the thick stuff. I can't speak to Africa but here if you track a wounded buck into the thickest cover in the County there's probably several animals already there.


"If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump
 
Posts: 9580 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: 09 December 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Guys, thanks for all your comments so far! Great discussion!

I do not have the “correct” answer to this question. No one does I think.

At times I make a living where facing two legged dangerous game in hostile environments is part of the job description and I immediately realized that following leopard blood in complete darkness aided by flashlights only is not up to modern day tactical protocols. That was what made me post the question here.
(In a similar situation “at work” a team mate would grab a drone out of his backpack and within 30 seconds we scan the area with high resolution thermal imaging from the air and locate threats before making a plan)

I’d say I would not have wanted to miss out on the extraordinary experience of going after a potentially not yet dead leopard, shoulder to shoulder with my PH and the trackers. A bunch of minutes of my life I will forever remember with great joy. But I probably feel that way because non of the people I put I harms potential way got hurt in any way. Had the outcome been different I probably would carry that regret on my shoulders for the rest of my life instead.
That being said, I would do it that same old fashioned way again if there ever is a next time.

However, if tracking fails or if the situation gets too dangerous to keep tracking at night. I think I would prefer to use technology to locate my dead leopard and save that trophy from being eaten by hyenas during the night.


History teaches us that we do not learn from history I guess.
Every piece of equipment we use today was “new” at some stage. Some prefer long bows and spears still to this day while others draw the line when we mention thermal imaging. Nothing wrong with either approach, you can make good arguments for both.

The fact that this new technology today is available will result in it being used for hunting by someone eventually. Probably good to have the discussion amongst our ranks and be prepared to condemn the obvious misuses of it and learn to live with the fact that we will never all agree on what is the right use of it.
 
Posts: 101 | Location: Sweden | Registered: 03 March 2008Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
So long as there aren't too many hot rocks around to cause confusion, thermals are just as effective in daylight as the dark. In very dense cover it can be hard to distinguish between a bird or a deers ear sticking up. It does, however let you know there is something there. Much more effective than any light at night.
In the 1950s scopes were still considered not quite sporting or manly. We all use them now.
If you have a thermal with you to find shot game sooner or later it becomes tempting to use it to find small game. I have done so. It is a slippery slope.
Soon you will see PHs using them to locate Blue duikers and Grysbok in dense cover. Whether we accept their use is up to the individual and the particular circumstances.
If you or your PH can't find a buffalo without a thermal you should go home.
 
Posts: 296 | Location: New Zealand  | Registered: 24 March 2018Reply With Quote
Administrator
posted Hide Post
Point is no matter what ethics one has.

One should use whatever technology at hand to prevent serious wounds to the people involved.

There is a great difference between taking all these gadgets to make your hunt a walk in the park.

And using them to avoid someone being killed.


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
 
Posts: 67036 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Absolutely

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
I may be in the minority on this one, and here's why.

The hunting of Dangerous Game, is just that, potentially dangerous. If one isn't in it from the very beginning, to the very end, regardless of the amount of danger involved, stick to hunting Kudu. (which also can be dangerous)

Are we really at a place technalogically that we are looking to lessen the very "alive" feeling of tracking wounded, dangerous stuff into impossibly thick cover?

I spent hours with Alister Norton following up a wounded Lion, in some of the nastiest stuff the Luangwa valley had to offer. It was my poor shot that caused it. After killing it in a charge, I HAVE NEVER FELT SO ALIVE.

Following up Buffalo is always interesting and it's the adrenaline of that follow-up I seek. I want no artificial aids in changing one of the last true adventures on this planet.


White Mountains Arizona
 
Posts: 2849 | Registered: 31 December 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Cougarz
posted Hide Post
Of course one could eliminate all danger by staying home and logging into a drone site that uses a rifle that shoots the animal and does the follow up if necessary. If the world comes to that sorry state count me out.

Like Arjun mentioned, when does it stop being hunting if your afraid to follow through no matter what the situation?


Roger
___________________________
I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along.

*we band of 45-70ers*
 
Posts: 2797 | Location: Washington (wetside) | Registered: 08 February 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Charlie64
posted Hide Post
.

"As long as it is legal", is my approach.

I and most hunters I know here in Germany are using hand held thermals at night and scope attachments for hunting wild boar. It has changed the whole way pigs are hunted - easier to identify sows and boars, less wounding and ability to hunt every night regardless of the moon! It also means that most hunters nowadays come home with a pig when pigs are out and about, whereas 20 years ago you would rely on the full moon to see the pigs and 1 in 10 hunts was successful.

Have used thermals in Austria to locate chamois and in the UK on muntjac during the day. Also legal.

Have yet to use one in Africa but I am sure in the years to come more and more technology will come in to play.

Remember also the time factor - yesteryear one would go off on a 21 day or 1 month safari! Nowadays we are cramming our hunting into 3 and 5 and 7 day windows and expect the same results as in a 15 or 21 day safari.

Would you rather go home with your trophies after 5 or 7 days using modern technology or empty handed not using whats available.

What ever floats your boat as long as it is legal IMO!


Ps would I use a handheld following up on wounded DG - no. Eyes and ears and both hands on my rifle - no time to play around with thermals and the like in such situations.

.


"Up the ladders and down the snakes!"
 
Posts: 2262 | Location: South Africa & Europe | Registered: 10 February 2014Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
The tech creep has gotten out of hand for sure. On the other hand, as clients, we are far less likely to get ourselves hurt than the trackers/PHs. Easy for us to be "brave".
 
Posts: 989 | Location: AL | Registered: 13 January 2003Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Michael Robinson
posted Hide Post
My answer is yes.

I would be willing to use any modern technology that would assist in tracking down and killing a wounded dangerous game animal.


Mike

Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer.
 
Posts: 13399 | Location: New England | Registered: 06 June 2003Reply With Quote
  Powered by Social Strata  
 

Accuratereloading.com    The Accurate Reloading Forums    THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS  Hop To Forum Categories  Hunting  Hop To Forums  African Big Game Hunting    Modern technology for follow up on wounded dangerous game, yes or no?

Copyright December 1997-2023 Accuratereloading.com


Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia

Since January 8 1998 you are visitor #: