This is for those who have yet to see the most amazing cat shot by 505 Gibbs - see hunt report.

It truly is a superb specimen and one of the biggest Lions I have come across. It weighed in at a staggering 500 plus pounds and almost 10 feet long. This beast is a fifth bigger than anything I have weighed. A lion like this would easily be able to feed at a height of 8 feet.

Whilst there are many Lion on this site with bigger manes for me this Lion has everything - mane, size and age. Fantastic trophy and one that will be very hard to beat.

My only regret was that I was not the PH.

The lion is a stud. 500lbs. Wow!

quote:

Originally posted by safari-lawyer:
The lion is a stud. 500lbs. Wow!

Will,

Unfortunately there are many here who will not realize what a great trophy this is. Although I have shot Lion with greater manes there are many other factors to consider.

Pity the trophy value has been reduced to that of a skull measurement.

Not saying I'd have shot the same lion or shot one at all, but I damn near had that hunt bought, but the outfitter wouldn't sell the hunt for his open October dates until he tried to fill it in May. Guess what?....He filled it! Congratulations again 505. What a stud of a lion!!! I'll have my day yet!

Brett

Cat hunting there is a lot harder in October. It is HOT!!!!!

Fairgame, thanks for the comments, although, you have nothing to be envious of, I have seen the lions you hunt, impressive to say the least. Brett, I'd like to say that I'm sorry, but I'd be lying , This deal fell together so quickly for me it was a blur, usually last minute deals that happen like that don't work out, this one did, in spades. anyways, thanks for the kind words guys

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
Fairgame, thanks for the comments, although, you have nothing to be envious of, I have seen the lions you hunt, impressive to say the least. Brett, I'd like to say that I'm sorry, but I'd be lying , This deal fell together so quickly for me it was a blur, usually last minute deals that happen like that don't work out, this one did, in spades. anyways, thanks for the kind words guys

Never shot a 500lb cat. Not even close. That thing is a horse.

fairgame,
interesting, honestly, my experience is limited but I was not aware that a 500lb mature male was that uncommon. I can say that this is the second lion I have seen that came out of the conservancy that weighed over 500lbs. One came off of Genundwe (sp?) 3-4 years ago that maxed a 480+ scale out with part of the cat still on the ground. That cat was 9'10" and extremely old, probably the biggest lion I have ever seen.

He's a big boy. Well done.

Here is a pic that shows a different angle, you can see a fresh cut across his face, he had several others, it appeared he got in a scrap with the male that came over from Banyin.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Never shot a 500lb cat. Not even close. That thing is a horse.

Andrew,

I started a thread on this very subject not long ago. There are a lot of reports of 500lbs lion and 180-200lbs leopard. I think weights are often WAY overstated. What do you figure the largest leopards you have taken run in the Kafue? Here's a link to the discussion: http://forums.accuratereloadin...161098521#5161098521

Brett

Brett,

For past few years we have been involved in scientific research regarding Lion and although not compulsory I weighed what to me was a large bodied cat, and do have a photo of this process, suspecting it to go 500lbs - it weighed in at exactly 400lbs and proves that the guessing of weights is far from accurate. Note that baits are presented not so a Lion can gorge himself so this is not an added factor.

Leopard vary from area to area and for instance the Luangwa cats very rarely go over 140lb and tend to be more slender than the Leopard found on our higher cooler plateaus such as the Kafue. In the Kafue Leopard average out at about 140lb which is large but occasionally a 'monster' it taken and who knows what they weigh but I suspect the 200lb mark is attainable, but not as common as some would have us believe.

Note the Lion I just shot took six of us to lift it off the ground and generally with Leopard we could have done the same task with two?

Brett,

Brett,

For past few years we have been involved in scientific research regarding Lion and although not compulsory I weighed what to me was a large bodied cat, and do have a photo of this process, suspecting it to go 500lbs - it weighed in at exactly 400lbs and proves that the guessing of weights is far from accurate. Note that baits are presented not so a Lion can gorge himself so this is not an added factor.

Leopard vary from area to area and for instance the Luangwa cats very rarely go over 140lb and tend to be more slender than the Leopard found on our higher cooler plateaus such as the Kafue. In the Kafue Leopard average out at about 140lb which is large but occasionally a 'monster' it taken and who knows what they weigh but I suspect the 200lb mark is attainable, but not as common as some would have us believe.

Note the Lion I just shot took six of us to lift it off the ground and generally with Leopard we could have done the same task with two?

Thanks for both posts Andrew! Seriously though that's the kind of info I like to see. So many people are adamant that their leopard was 150, 170, 200, GOD help me 220lbs or their lion was 500, 550, 600lbs. I think some of it is a fair amount of BS, but others are just misled by well intentioned PHs with extremely inaccurate guesses. Just a thought.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:
Thanks for both posts Andrew! Seriously though that's the kind of info I like to see. So many people are adamant that their leopard was 150, 170, 200, GOD help me 220lbs or their lion was 500, 550, 600lbs. I think some of it is a fair amount of BS, but others are just misled by well intentioned PHs with extremely inaccurate guesses. Just a thought.

Brett

And that is why I am so impressed with the 505 Gibbs cat. However there are many more professionals out there who are more experienced than I am, so yes it would be interesting to hear if they put these animals on the scale? I think young Sharp does and has probably shot more Leopard than I have had hot dinners.

This sounds very similar to the issue we have here in the states with Deer (whitetail). It seems the magic number for a monster whitetail is 300lbs, I have weighed literally hundreds of deer and I think the largest I ever saw personally was 230lbs and that was a PIG, everyone thought that deer would weigh over 300. People don't realize that a 200lb deer is a big mature deer. I guess the 2 questions that should be asked are "was a scale used?" and "did you see it?", although, that may be kind of like asking a fisherman how big of a fish he caught.

The weight of some of these lions (and leopards) can be drastically impacted by how much they had just eaten. I killed my first lion on a natural buff kill. It had absolutely gorged itself. It's stomach looked like a 9 month pregnant woman. I am guessing the lion had 50-75 pounds of meat in its stomach. If we had scales, there is no doubt in my mind that this would have had a major impact on the lions weight.

Just yesterday, there was a show on Animal Planet about the things that could kill you in Africa. Needless to say lions were included. I laughed when they said the typical lion weighed over 500 pounds. I guess I have been hunting the wrong places!

Andrew: Neat research and way overdue. Not only weights Brett, but horn length and body length too have become tremendously overstated. It's just so convenient nowadays to say the buff's horn width was 40 inches, the leopard's body length is 7 feet, the lion's body length was 10 feet. Yes it's attainable but it's not happening with the frequency that some are reporting.

The estimates and actual measurements are often far apart.

Same thing with whitetail 505 gibbs. you're dead on with your statement. Congrats on a fine lion as well. Looks like you were dead on with your rifle too.

quote:

Originally posted by SableTrail:
Andrew: Neat research and way overdue. Not only weights Brett, but horn length and body length too have become tremendously overstated. It's just so convenient nowadays to say the buff's horn width was 40 inches, the leopard's body length is 7 feet, the lion's body length was 10 feet. Yes it's attainable but it's not happening with the frequency that some are reporting.

The estimates and actual measurements are often far apart.

Same thing with whitetail 505 gibbs. you're dead on with your statement. Congrats on a fine lion as well. Looks like you were dead on with your rifle too.

Moja,

We are only participating in the research. The research is being conducted by the quite attractive Dr Paula White - in conjunction with our Wildlife Department.

There is a quite amusing story to go with this.

I was hunting with two clients one day and we were walking the fringes of an open plain and around the corner heard a Warthog making the most dreadful noise. Being inquisitive it was decided to go and have a look. The noise was repetitive and the poor pig was in much distress. What we stumbled was the good doctor locked in her car, windows up 'calling' for Lions through a large speaker attached to the roof rack.

As she had not seen us I sneaked up behind the vehicle and shook it violently.

Needless to say she refused me sex that evening.

Guys - The Kafue lions are hands down the smallest bodied lions I have ever seen, PERIOD!! No question weights are often over-estimated, but most lions in other locations throughout Africa are certainly bigger than the lions of the Kafue, guaranteed! I have weighed 2 lions, one went 489lbs, the other went 503lbs. Neither had a chance to get full on meat, as I shot em within 2 minutes of getting to the bait. The other lions I have mounted, are considerably larger than the lions from the Kafue, where Andrew is talking about. Also, rarely do the lions skulls there even go 25", other places I have shot several lions with 25" - 26 3/4" skulls. Location plays as much of a factor in weight & size as it does in mane genetics.

Lions will weigh more if gorging on meat, but that will usually only be a factor if you are hunting them early in the morning when they have been feeding all night. When was the last time you sat at the bait in the evening, the lion shows up, and you sat that for 2 hrs watching him gorge himself?? I would say most lions will weigh between 450 - 480 pounds on average. I do have one lion that I was never able to weigh, he is mounted 6 feet away from the lion that weighs 489lbs with a 26.5" skull. He is obviously larger than the lion that weighs 489!

I weighed my Zim Leopard on accurate scales. He went 150 lbs on the nose (16" skull). My client's Leopard weighed 167 lbs with a 17" skull. No BS here and neither had the chance to feed.

quote:

Originally posted by L. David Keith:
I weighed my Zim Leopard on accurate scales. He went 150 lbs on the nose (16" skull). My client's Leopard weighed 167 lbs with a 17" skull. No BS here and neither had the chance to feed.

Huge. I want to see 200lb on a scale.

My leopard weighed 71 kg. (156 lbs.) Skull 16 4/16" Length with tail 7' 2".

Dave

Does that make it a 45/70 lion since it is so small?

465H&H

this leopard weighed 84kg and was 7'6", yes we used a scale and yes I saw it

505, what a monster...and despite the BS, they don't come much bigger that that!!

Is that a Zim cat??

By the way fellas,

I'm not much for "score" or measuring my animals so I never paid much attention to it, but I am wondering, how do you determine the score of a cat's skull...is it length + width?? and is that after drying??

quote:

Is that a Zim cat??

Yes, Save Conservancy, Leon Duplessis, the leopard master

You have done well. The most amazing cats. Just out of interest how tall are you?

4'3"

Andrew: Serves you right! How's a young lady to carry out her research with pranksters like you in the bush!

505 Gibbs: Nice leopard. You can tell that's a heavy cat. You're a strong man, I can see the strain on your face and in your arms and at least 24-inches of the cat is still on the ground.

It gets me when these guys can pick up the entire cat, with no visible straining, the cat's tail is completely off the ground...and they say it's a 7-and-a-half foot cat weighing 180 pounds.

Eland Dung!

I stopped doing the bear hug pickup of the cats after I shot my first of four leopards. You see there was a tick that conveniently decided to switch sides at some point when I was being photographed embracing the leopard. Later that night at about 2:00 a.m. I let out a bloody yell that woke up everyone in camp. Kappie my cameraman came rushing to my tent with his torch and handgun.

I felt pain in the "groin" area but couldn't see anything. I put my glasses on and noticed the tick's feet wiggling, he had already chewed into my flesh and his head was fully inside. The extraction was even more painful!

Ever since that day, I decided to never pickup a leopard. (Don't know what got into Aaron when he decided to pickup that lion!) When I think of dangerous Africa, that night with the tick is what I remember.

200# spotted mister, 7'10" 17 15/16 skull, zim lowveld
i'll have to get a picture of my lion that did go over 500 10'2" 27" skull also in zim lowveld, on the same hunt to boot. i think i used up my lifetimes worth of luck on that hunt.

Marc,

I found one in the Sea Cliff hotel on the way out "lodged" in the same vecinity! I believe it hitched a ride from one of the buffalo that road in the truck. I guess never pick up hitch hikers in Africa!

Brett

Man, the blind I killed the lion out of was infested with Bonte Ticks, you know, the big ones that have a 1/8" drill bit for a straw. Talk about the heebeejeebees, between that and the bats flying into the blind and fluttering around my head all night, sheesh

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
200# spotted mister, 7'10" 17 15/16 skull, zim lowveld
i'll have to get a picture of my lion that did go over 500 10'2" 27" skull also in zim lowveld, on the same hunt to boot. i think i used up my lifetimes worth of luck on that hunt.

Outrageous.

I believe Hemingway wrote about such a cat taken with a .505.