I am putting together a new .375HH. I am debating whether or not to have open sights on the barrel.

Here is why -

1) I have never had occasion to use open sights in 10+ safaris.

2) I am over 60 and not so sure of my eye sight should I use open sights.

3) I use a 1.7x10 scope normally and have yet to have an issue.


Do any of you really use iron sights other than the double rifle folks?

My personal reasons for open sights:
1. resale
2. personal aesthetics
3. I use QD mounts if I have a scope (mainly claw-type) and never have had a "return to zero" issue.
4. Even at 70, I feel comfortable with shots on impala-sized game at 50-60 yards.
5. Iron sights don't fog up in the rain or fail due to recoil or a stumble and thud on the side of a hill.

That said, I always use a slightly over-sized front bead and an express rear sight with a white line (maybe warthog tusk) in the center.

Works for me.

Shootaway uses open sights so they must be an absolute requirement!

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
My personal reasons for open sights:
1. resale
2. personal aesthetics
3. I use QD mounts if I have a scope (mainly claw-type) and never have had a "return to zero" issue.
4. Even at 70, I feel comfortable with shots on impala-sized game at 50-60 yards.
5. Iron sights don't fog up in the rain or fail due to recoil or a stumble and thud on the side of a hill.

That said, I always use a slightly over-sized front bead and an express rear sight with a white line (maybe warthog tusk) in the center.

Works for me.

+1 (although I have a few more years to get to 70 ), I just think a rifle looks better with iron sights and the idea of having a back up if a scope goes out or you need the wide open field of view with the iron sights on a follow up appeals to me.

The only rifles that have open sights that I have hunted in Africa with:

458 Win Mag pre-64 Super Grade. Just too cool to not have with open sights.

470 Nitro double rifle.

Have also hunted with 375 H&H; 375 Wby; 338 Win Mag; 270 Win; 260 Rem. All have only telescopic sights. So, except for the romance, I don't use open sights.

All my African guns have open sights for back up. Used them once when I damaged a scope with a stupid fall. I recently put a Burris Red Dot on my customized Ruger RSM 416 Rigby. Really slick for my aging eyes (up to 100 yards.) Would love to use this on my next buff.

I agree with all that has been said above.

My last two safaris to Zambia, I have taken an open sighted 404 Jeffery and taken two Buffalo with them.

My next safari is back once again to Zambia, and this time I am taking my 458 Lott with open sights for Buffalo. No problem. I am however, taking a 375H&H as my medium with a scope. Best of both worlds. I plan on using the 458 Lott open sights for any shot under 100 yards. Over that, I will pass it off to my wife or tracker and take the scoped 375.

My rule, for just myself, is anything under a 400 caliber is scoped. Anything over 400 caliber is open sights. All rifles, however, have open sights.

Works for me.

YMMV

Ross,

IMO If your putting together a 375 there's no reason to add the expense of open sites. Take a spare sited in scope with you and your good. I haven't killed anything with open sites since about 1979. When I lived in AK I had a short barreled 458 that I carried when camping and when I had a full custom rifle built a few years ago I had a detachable ghost ring added with a fiber optic front bead installed mostly because of the gunsmith's urging. No I don't think a 375 needs open sites.

Mark

Rifles without sights look strange to me...unless its a synthetic "bean field" type rifle.

Open sights yes! Especially when they are done right, put on a good, fitted rifle and installed/sighted correctly(in other words, the gunmaker knows what he is doing).You don't want a rear sight that has to be moved so far right or left in order to shoot bullseye or one that is filed down so much that it will obscure your sight picture.Imagine an expensive custom rifle with the rear sight so far to the right that you have to extend your neck so you could align the sights.

I have a 300 H&H pre 64 Winchester that I bought to hunt in Africa with Iron sights. For practice I have a push feed Winchester 270 and a 22LR we made with similar weight, balance, stock and sights.
I will practice by shooting 1-200 rounds of 22 and 20-40 rounds of 270. The 300 gets shot about every fifth practice session.

I have also switched to irons for hog hunting. I have been having shots at under 25 yards and a scope doesn't work well that close.

For all of the above I do take a scoped rifle should it be needed.

M

I too like iron sights, at least on wood/blued rifles.

quote:

(although I have a few more years to get to 70 Big Grin),

Mike, is that "years"...as in plural? :-)

All of our 375 and up rifles carry first class iron sights with scopes on Talley steel QR rings. I shoot most naturally with a scope, but if the brush is thick, the game is wounded and dangerous and it's raining iron sights are kinda nice.

Ross you may not use them, but they look cool and just to know that they are there. But you need a good set of open sights which can be done if it is a custom rifle. NECG has some good sights

Arjun

Why do you think Trijicon invented the RMR? Like the rest of you folks, we are in our 70's. Is the gun for you or is it to help your estate executor dispose of your stuff? On my trips to SA, I had an extra, zeroed in scope and a RMR for nose to nose follow-ups'. I never used them and after I got my Dagga Boy, I left the spare scope with my PH as part of his tip. I really like the Trijicon scopes with the cross hairs and the green center dot.
Favor Center

Most traditional rifles/firearms in general come off the assembly line already fitted with irons, basic but functional.

If one chooses to have a rifle built from the white then the bells and whistles are entirely dependent on wallet capacity in securing the best that the market has on offer.

Regarding functionality, they all work if the eyesight is normal/good and that, by and large normally holds true up to a certain age when difficulty in lining up 3 objects simultaneously kicks in.

If a scope is undesirable then another set of options would be a Peep which would eliminate having to line 3 objects as the pupil automatically finds the center of the ring and you would only have to align the foresight on the target. It is very efficient/quick but has its limitations on distances over 70m depending on the aperture of the ring - the tighter the better.

The other alternative to the Peep would be an aim-point and I believe to have been among the first to "desecrate" a DR by fitting a Panorama multi-reticle on my .500 which has proved its worth, aesthetics be damned.

I have used iron sights on bolt action rifles to shoot game, both on purpose and because I had a scope go south on me.

I am not religious about it, but I would rather have them than not.

A good claw mount is an option?

Open sights are great for working in thick cover of for follow ups on dangerous game. They give you the best possible field of view and more importantly for me I can see what everyone else is doing.

My advise if you have sights on the guns then practise with them and see how you go. It is one sight formation that will not fail you in the field but obviously there are limitations.

As stated Surefire7 shoots open sights and very well indeed. His first buff with me was a running shot as it burst from cover at our feet. Prior to that we were pushing through some incredibly thick grass where a scope would have been a hinderance.

I am 63 and have worn glasses since I was 12. Last week I was at the range with my .375 H&H and was testing the return to zero of my EAW mounted Trijicon 1-4 Accupoint. I decided to try the iron sights just to see how I could do: 1.5" group 3 inches high at 100 yards. I was shocked that I could do that with iron sights. Seeing game and the front sight is a different proposition, however.

Still, I would want hem as a backup on anything 375 and over.

You don't need iron sights anymore as today's scopes are of much better quality. Nearly all PHs prefer you use a scope as they are more accurate with less wounding and follow up. I would still bring a sighted in back up scope and rings just in case.

I have irons as a backup. I have a second scope as well, but it's kept in camp.

Dave

I'm now 61 years old & have shot iron sights at least reasonably well all my life & am next to hopeless with a scope & if anything, I shoot better with irons now than I did 20 years ago but admittedly can't read close up for shit without glasses.

That said, most but not all of my shooting has been at relatively close range.

Open sights not only need to fit the eye, they also might need filed for the load you choose -- weight of bullet. I'd just have two rifles with you in case the scope on one goes funk. My ZKK 602 got refiled for the load I had on hand/gave my 'smith. FWIW, I am also 60 and can't shoot for beans without a scope, so...

2 cents

I did a safari with Martin peters and to change it up used a .458 Lott open sights from the little guys to the big guys. It was challenging and I really enjoyed it. I now use a scope on everything but my double but prefer O.S. on bolt rifles for back up.

quote:

Originally posted by bwanajay:
. . . on everything but my double . . .

. . . saying that has a nice ring to it doesn't it.

Just Toasted a Swarovski Z6 1x6 that was installed on my 400H&H. Luckily it was at the Range at home and not on the Range in a camp. Extra scope always a plus, irons hard to make them fail.

quote:

. . . saying that has a nice ring to it doesn't it. Mike

Yes it does!

I would 100% have open sights as a plan B. Costs so little and can make a tremendous difference if shit goes south. Don't see a down side.

quote:

Originally posted by bwanajay:
I did a safari with Martin peters and to change it up used a .458 Lott open sights from the little guys to the big guys. It was challenging and I really enjoyed it. I now use a scope on everything but my double but prefer O.S. on bolt rifles for back up.

Hi Jay,
I'd personally forget to bring a scope next year but hey thats a personal decision

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:

quote:

Originally posted by bwanajay:
I did a safari with Martin peters and to change it up used a .458 Lott open sights from the little guys to the big guys. It was challenging and I really enjoyed it. I now use a scope on everything but my double but prefer O.S. on bolt rifles for back up.

Hi Jay,
I'd personally forget to bring a scope next year but hey thats a personal decision

Adam, we pressured Jay to buy a double . . . an English double no less . . . for the trip. No worries on him bringing a scope.

I bet it wasn't too hard to Pressure him for such a purchase

There are open sights and then there are aperture and ghost ring sights.

The former work fine for close to medium range work if you are young. The older you are the harder they become to use, esp in low light when your pupils are dilated. The problem is the rear sight gets really fuzzy and the front bead can double on you, making it hard to hit anything at any distance. You can mitigate this by wearing an out-of-date (ie weak) set of prescription lenses, but this will slightly compromise your ability to pick out game.

The apertures are the answer. Even if you are older, a ghost ring will sharpen the sight picture and is just as fast as express sights. A true aperture type sight is more precise but generally not as rugged and slower to use. A client of mine, shooting a Ruger 375 No 1, took 7 animals all one shot kills with an aperture last year. The longest shot was an eland at 350! Shot buffalo, 2 warthogs, giraffe, 2 zebra .... and the amazing thing is this gent can't shoot scoped to save his life. It's that target panic thing. There is no visible wobble with irons, it looks rock steady so you are less likely to jerk the trigger.

There is no doubt in my mind that just about anyone can learn to use iron sights effectively. Even at longer range, a trained shooter can put a shot into the vitals every time.

So here are a couple of setups that I really like.

1. XS makes a series of backup sights that fit onto the rear scope base.
2. Better than that, a gunsmith in Idaho makes a Win 70 scope base with an integral pop-up ghost ring that is fully adjustable. His name escapes for the moment but someone will know who I am talking about.
3. Cheap solution: Williams
4. Neat solution: Redfield used to make a really cute folding ghost ring that screws to the rear scope base.
5. Classy solution: NECG makes rugged receiver sights for several brands of rifle.
6. Elegant solution: Sako used to make a two-position rear aperture that mounts on their proprietary integral dovetail. Rugged, adjustable, and instantly switchable from 100 yd position to 200 yd.

My recommendation is to forget the scope altogether, and shoot an aperture. This is for bush conditions, not Alaska or Montana.

I'm getting to the point that I want to use more open sights while I can. I've use some camp guns with open sights on varmints and such (except the one I will describe below), but it takes knowing the "hold."

I had quite an experience with a buffalo using an open sighted .458 Zavastava (sp?) in Argentina. It was about 100 yards at maybe at 30 degree uphill angle. It dropped and bellowed shortly after. We waiting for the upset herd to clear when it got up a few minutes later! This was rocky terrain and I sent a couple more into the buff, but they were not placed as well as they should have been. After 5-7 kms in the hills, other back up shots by the crew, we were able to finally put it out of its misery.

After skinning, we saw that it even had a 500gr high spine hit along with many other hits. I could have made it easier with a scoped gun knowing the sight picture better.

I have no use for them on safari, so non of my rifles have them.

Same goes for very low power scopes, like 1-5X etc.

At 67, my eyesight is not what it used to be, and I like my rifles to be multi purpose.

That way I can shoot anything from 5-500 yards if the need be.

Also, I find having a scope makes it much easier hunting in the bush, where one has to place his bullet between all sorts of obstacles
.

Except for things moving at very close ranges,a scope is much easier to shoot with.I remember practicing 20yrs ago offhand, with a scope at 200yds and 300yds and I would do as good or better than I shoot today with open sights at 100yds.So it's not always to make it easier that I choose open sights.

I will add that shooting irons you can call your shots better than with a scope. Last year I shot a buffalo with an iron-sighted 404 and could clearly see the bullet impact of both the first shot, as well as the second shot on the departing buff. Both shots looked good and he went 80 yards max.

Shooting with a scope, you rarely see your bullet impact due to the jarring of the sight picture under recoil, and the fact that this induces a blink in most people. Even experienced varmint shooters report that shooting anything bigger than a 22-250 makes it impossible to "call" the shot as the sight picture moves too much.

When you are shooting irons, it's easier to keep the eye open. Indeed, while shooting service rifle competitively, I was able to see the bullet heat trail through the air and call the shot at 200 more often than not.

quote:

ozhunterone bet it wasn't too hard to Pressure him for such a purchase

Adam, The Jines Terminator strikes again

I enjoy hunting with open sights very much, although I admit most of my "money shots" have been with a scope. There is no doubt a scope is better IN ANY SITUATION, but I take some pride in making shots out to 200 yards on game.

quote:

Open sights-Who really uses them?

I have been to Africa several times and hunted only with open sights.



This picture also confirms I resolved what was formerly a problem with Photobucket!!!