The two recent threads on shooting from a truck and archery buffalo disgrace got me to wondering about this. What actions do you think that hunters do that put us into a bad light with non-hunters? Forget antis, as they don't like anything we do including eating meat.

The attitude of non-hunters about our sport can have a determining factor on what hunting laws are passed and most can be convinced one way or the other by facts.

465H&H

I think we give non-hunters way too much credit as far as determining what is ethical and what isn't concerning hunting.

For example, I've been hunting for 43 years. The vast majority of that in Texas for Whitetail Deer out of blinds, often over feeders, and using tree stands while archery hunting.

Before I joined this forum I had no idea that people found the use of a blind or tree stand as objectionable. I doubt non-hunters make a distinction at all over most of the things we split hairs over. I doubt most non-hunters even have a clue as to why we would consider shooting from a truck as being objectionable.

From most conversations I have with non-hunters, they don't care about the methods at all. They care if the meat is eaten and they tend to think that ALL African game is endangered.

Spot on, Todd Williams.

I got news for you, no matter what you do its going to offend somebody. What makes hunters look bad to me? Its bending over backwards for people who on a good day you would never let shine your shoes or invite into your home or share a campfire with. I don't apologize for hunting fishing or shooting what ever kind of rifle shotgun pistol or artillery( a friend restored a French 75 to working order, its a blast to shoot). Why should you bend over for anybody?

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
The attitude of non-hunters about our sport can have a determining factor on what hunting laws are passed and most can be convinced one way or the other by facts.
465H&H

Laws against hunting get passed, just like it did here in Colorado in the early 90's to stop bear "baiting", and hunting with dogs, because LIBERAL - ANTI HUNTING groups ran completely false tv ads saying "how sporting is it to bait a bear with a jelly donut", "Hunters are shooting sows with cubs", etc, etc. It was totally pathetic. Nothing more than a play on people's emotions.

Despite the fact that the CDOW Biologists not only opposed the law, they gave a public statement laying out facts in favor of said hunting methods, as vital to needed bear harvest, the law was passed.

The outcome had nothing to do with the facts, the non-hunting majority was swayed by false propaganda, period! Now we have an over abundance of bears in CO, evident by the bear/human conflicts over the past 10 yrs.

Regardless of facts, we are constantly portrayed in a bad-light. I agree, the non-hunting community is the key to the future of hunting, but facts will have little to do with it IMO.

465H&H:
As a teacher for my career I can agree with Todd that others feel the meat must be eaten and all African game is endangered. Most antis know nothing of what we do but in a world where food is prepackaged. We have lost our place on the food chain. Most antis I know eat meat on a regular basis but the actual thought of killing the animal is beyond their comprehension. Another fact is what I call the Disney effect. Urban kids grow up thinking animals have human emotions as to Tigger, Dumbo, Bambi, the Lion King, etc., and to kill one of these creatures is akin to murder.

About two years ago Oprah Magazine had an excellent article by a woman who wanted to experience a true Thanksgiving dinner and hunted and killed a turkey. The outrage was amazing! Countless readers cancelled their subscriptions and the forum posts went on forever. Now, these people had turkey for their Thanksgiving but the though of killing it was out of their minds.

As the world becomes more and more urbanized, we are fighting a battle we can't win.

The few antis who know a a bit about hunting have spoken to me of their disgust of shooting penned animals such as elk and deer behind fences. As a teacher it was nearly a daily issue between parents, students, fellow teachers, and administrators.

Funny, all the anti hunters I know are also strongly pro abortion.
Cheers,
Cal

For me, nothing is worse than after the hunter takes the animal, he immediately whips out a measuring tape and starts talking about what he will score.

Tembo:
Thank SCI for that.
Cal

I have found that most non-hunters I "know" (I am not talking about some casual acquaintance) come to realize that there is value to hunting...once they realize the resource is managed, utilized once harvested, the hunting was ethical and done in a safe manner...having respect for the laws, the sport and the animals we hunt goes a long way...

Many of those same people would find the Televised Hunting Shows distasteful...I find many of those shows objectionable as well....

The blood and gore of some photos/videos posted on the internet (most of what I seen on AR is perfectly fine) such as blow up varmints is a bit much...

Outside of "media" there is little contact a non-hunter would have with the sport other than personal relationships....

Social "attitudes" that look down on hunting and hunters have been built up over years...as the sport has fallen in particpation, at least from a percentage of the population....

The stories of poaching and there is plenty of poaching in this country...lack of respect for others property, etc is certainly viewed as a negative...

The negative stories about hunting and supposed hunters (poachers) usually make the paper and news....the positive stories about hunting and conservation do not make headlines..

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
The two recent threads on shooting from a truck and archery buffalo disgrace got me to wondering about this. What actions do you think that hunters do that put us into a bad light with non-hunters? Forget antis, as they don't like anything we do including eating meat.

The attitude of non-hunters about our sport can have a determining factor on what hunting laws are passed and most can be convinced one way or the other by facts.

465H&H

Things some hunters do that can make "non-hunters" see us in a bad light:
1- Post videos on youtube that show the hunter "hootin' n hollerin' it up"
after a kill; especially if he/she is smearing the animal's blood on their,
(the hunter's own) face while wearing a big, stupid grin; and similar red neck
antics.
2- Showing blood in photos/videos
3- a. Showing video of a wounded and DOWNED animal NOT being promptly
approached so it can be put out of it's misery with a coup de grace; and further,
showing the animal writhing on it's side, kicking it's legs, obviously suffering,
while the hunter talks to the camera or others with him/her!
(b. The video need not show the coup de grace as that might unsettle non-hunters;
even though they know, logically, that is the next obvious step in the long process
called hunting. After you've shown the shot that DOWNED the animal cut the footage
to a scene of the hunter speaking, saying that he put the beast out of it's misery
as quickly as possible.)

quote:

Before I joined this forum I had no idea that people found the use of a blind or tree stand as objectionable. I doubt non-hunters make a distinction at all over most of the things we split hairs over. I doubt most non-hunters even have a clue as to why we would consider shooting from a truck as being objectionable.

That is about as accurate as it gets. Anti-hunters minds are made up and will not be changed. Non-Hunters are usually more open minded and seem to be mainly concerned about what happens to the meat.

The first year I hunted in Colorado, 1992, was the year they passed the bear hunting regulations which are based on pure emotional issues, not sound game management practices.

Lots of things in todays world make hunters look bad and I am not sure anything can be done to correct that, simply because we all view hunting differently.

There are rotten people in all walks of life.What makes them look bad? No point in filling the forum with threads like this,IMO.Hope we just don't find these people in camp with us.

Disrespect, in any way, to the game animal, before, during or after the kill.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Disrespect, in any way, to the game animal, before, during or after the kill.

Completely agree, especially standing or sitting on the dead animal.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Tembo:
Thank SCI for that.
Cal

SCI, Boone and Crocket, P&Y, Rowland Ward, Ect.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
There are rotten people in all walks of life.What makes them look bad? No point in filling the forum with threads like this,IMO.Hope we just don't find these people in camp with us.

once again, you lost me. why would people like that be in a hunting camp??? are hunting camps in Canada different than elsewhere?

quote:

Originally posted by PD999:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Disrespect, in any way, to the game animal, before, during or after the kill.

Completely agree, especially sitting on the dead animal.

Sorry don't get that one!! Somehow sitting on a Buffalo while waiting for the truck to show up is no less respectful than cutting its skin off and eating its backstrap. It's dead, it doesn't care.



Notoriously disrespectful Zambian PH Andrew Baldry and a Buffalo that really doesn't care at this point.

A Client showing what a crack shot he is...and then misses a target on 50 yards...10 times...took the rifle by him and shot in the bull the 1st, 2nd and 3rd time...

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Disrespect, in any way, to the game animal, before, during or after the kill.

Mrlexma,
I agree completely.

I would add that the "bubba factor" on TV from the likes of Waddell and others does not help. The good 'ol boy syndrome and the "I do this because of my heritage" is lame.

We hunt because enjoy it.

I see the same thing in golf. You can play the game as it was meant to be played, respectfully, by the rules and with good manners or - you have the John Daly crowd shouting "you da man!" after every shot.

Personal decorum and manners go a long way in life.

I live in Cairo and you cannot believe the number of local people that are apologizing to me about the antics of "thugs" at the US embassy. They are embarassed by the behavour of their own people.

I am embarrased when I see those two idiots represented by Bushnell hunting in Africa or anywhere hooting and hollering over thier "kills". Same for the Duck Commanders.

Yes disrespect, in any way, to the game animal.


A lot of non-hunters don't like trophy pictures. Especially when the hunter tries to make himself look like a hero.

Disrespect and/or an attitude of superiority toward camp staff, trackers, etc. is not cool. Ask their names and address them as such. Try to get to know them. I know 98% of readers already know & do this. Not meaning to preach to the choir...

You Tube videos & very immature trophies..... there's one of the latter on another forum right now & the if the obvious immature age of the animal isn't bad enough, what's almost worse is the fact the hunter seems totally unaware of the scale of stuff up he's committed.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
I think we give non-hunters way too much credit as far as determining what is ethical and what isn't concerning hunting.

For example, I've been hunting for 43 years. The vast majority of that in Texas for Whitetail Deer out of blinds, often over feeders, and using tree stands while archery hunting.

Before I joined this forum I had no idea that people found the use of a blind or tree stand as objectionable. I doubt non-hunters make a distinction at all over most of the things we split hairs over. I doubt most non-hunters even have a clue as to why we would consider shooting from a truck as being objectionable.

From most conversations I have with non-hunters, they don't care about the methods at all. They care if the meat is eaten and they tend to think that ALL African game is endangered.

Exactly right

quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
I think we give non-hunters way too much credit as far as determining what is ethical and what isn't concerning hunting.

For example, I've been hunting for 43 years. The vast majority of that in Texas for Whitetail Deer out of blinds, often over feeders, and using tree stands while archery hunting.

Before I joined this forum I had no idea that people found the use of a blind or tree stand as objectionable. I doubt non-hunters make a distinction at all over most of the things we split hairs over. I doubt most non-hunters even have a clue as to why we would consider shooting from a truck as being objectionable.

From most conversations I have with non-hunters, they don't care about the methods at all. They care if the meat is eaten and they tend to think that ALL African game is endangered.

Exactly right

This...

I think that in answering this question it is important to distinguish between "anti-hunters" and "non-hunters." I doubt there is anything we could do-- bar no longer being hunters-- that would satisfy the antis. But in my experience they are a small, but disproportionately vocal (read screeching) minority. I would write them off. But, again in my own experience, the non-hunter is usually open to hearing about why I hunt, what I do with the dead animal, etc. People are usually pleased to hear that nearly all the meat my family eats comes from animals we shoot, that we butcher our own meat, that hunting is largely a family affair or, in the case of foreign hunting trips, that I combine hunting with learning about a culture different from my own.
In my opinion what truly bothers the non-hunter is not only some of the things listed above (the back-slapping, video of writhing dying animals, blood-smearing, etc) but also slobbishness. I live in a small town and commute to another city for work. Every fall as I drive through the country I will see hides, bones, heads and sometimes paritally butchered carcasses lying by the side of the road, dumped there by some slob hunter. Nothing is more likely to turn a non-hunter into an anti-hunter than littering like that or concrete proof of people who shoot an animal and don't make use of it (by eating it.) That's why so many folks profess to be against "trophy hunting;" they believe that the trophy hunter cuts off the trophy and leaves the rest of the animal to rot.

One thing that makes people look bad,hunters or non hunters,is the desire of an individual to be the leader or participant in a type of ``gang``.A gang in which what is right or wrong is not important,and fairness to all means nothing.IMO,these gangs are made up of people that have alot in common,financial interests,some kind of heirarchy etc.. .

I knew SCI would come in for blame but that is crap. I remember 60+ years ago long before SCI existed hunters were comparing their bucks. I got a 6 point (eastern count), oh I got an 8 point and the local hardwarde store (sold hunting equip rifles and ammo) would have a big buck contest. I hear it is all about the hunt but for some reason I never see pics of spike bucke (unless a kids first buck) or a 35" buffalo etc.. Sorry to get off subject. Oh yea remember the hunter with the Whitetail on the front fender of his 49 Chev for 2 days. Oh yea.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:very
immature trophies..... t

I must totally disagree.. If you open your eyes and look you will see that the rest of the world that not hunt for "trophies" dont really care about just shooting mature animals we hunt for population control and what we think is best for our area, meat and for the love of hunting.

I actually said "very immature trophies" as in the region of not even half grown or considerably less than fully grown etc.

I didn't mean good representative or even less that good representative of the species for that area.

we have shoot two moose calves this month..Best meat you can have! Im sorry but that for me or anyone here in this part of the world does not make us "look bad".

quote:

Originally posted by A.Dahlgren:
we have shoot two moose calves this month..Best meat you can have! Im sorry but that for me or anyone here in this part of the world does not make us "look bad".

I can understand that & don't have a problem with it but I assume we're talking ordinary sport hunting in Africa here rather than culling or shooting for the table.

Or do I misunderstand the question?

Oh & thanks for amending your post to add my 'very'

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
I actually said "very immature trophies" as in the region of not even half grown or considerably less than fully grown etc.

I didn't mean good representative or even less that good representative of the species for that area.

you think a non hunter knows the difference between a 4yr and a 6yr old lion or cares about soft bosses? My experience is that many people respect hunting for venison but don't want trophy hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by Caracal:

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
I actually said "very immature trophies" as in the region of not even half grown or considerably less than fully grown etc.

I didn't mean good representative or even less that good representative of the species for that area.

you think a non hunter knows the difference between a 4yr and a 6yr old lion or cares about soft bosses? My experience is that many people respect hunting for venison but don't want trophy hunting.

You also might like to re-read my post(s).

I mean (for example) a 2 or 3 year old lion or a half grown buffalo etc.

And yes, I do think they see a difference between (for example) a 6 year old lion and something that's not much bigger than an overgrown labrador.

I agree with Dogcat on the Bubba type shows. Too much BBD and knuckle bumping in a tree.

The only way they could be more tasteless is to appear on TV in flip-flops and a thong. I don't waste much time watching the TV hunting shows. It's like I live one some days here at the shop.

Pith helmets.

Now come on Pegleg, I think my pith helmet goes really well with the flip-flops and my thong!

Sorry guys, I couldn't resist. To imagine me in a thong, flip-flops or a pith helmet would really make someone violently ill. Not to mention the emotional damage it could cause.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
I think we give non-hunters way too much credit as far as determining what is ethical and what isn't concerning hunting.

For example, I've been hunting for 43 years. The vast majority of that in Texas for Whitetail Deer out of blinds, often over feeders, and using tree stands while archery hunting.

Before I joined this forum I had no idea that people found the use of a blind or tree stand as objectionable. I doubt non-hunters make a distinction at all over most of the things we split hairs over. I doubt most non-hunters even have a clue as to why we would consider shooting from a truck as being objectionable.

From most conversations I have with non-hunters, they don't care about the methods at all. They care if the meat is eaten and they tend to think that ALL African game is endangered.

Spot on !

+2 Dogcat