Ladies and Gentlemen,

At the risk of opening one of those "internet can-of-worms topics", I would appreciate your comments on the following. Honestly, I struggled with several of these and would welcome any comments or suggestions.

First, if you haven't seen this post, then go here Real World Shot Placement and study the pictures. Then return to this topic. Hopefully, we can all learn something from this little exercise.

I have edited this original set of pictures since the first posting. On the first posting, I just had cross hairs centered on the heart. Now I have added an oval around the cross hairs to better represent (at least as to my best guess) the location of the heart. As you will see, many prefer a "top of the heart shot" in which case align your horizontal cross hair along the top of the oval in the pictures below.

#1

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#2

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#3

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#4

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#5

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#6
I would not take a shot on this one. I would wait until he moved his head.

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#7

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#8

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#9

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#10


Regards,

Terry

Niiice!

Dave

Shot placement thoughts and where I'd aim with respect to your marks.

1) Just a little to the left...not much.
2) Just a little to the left and up a bit.
3) Same as you
4) Little left and up.
5) Same as you
6) No shot
7) Same as you
8) Same as you
9) Left bull - just a little to the left and right bull same as you.
10) Same as you.

Looks to me like most of these are placed a little to far forward. Poor shot selections. My opinion only.

They will all kill and should break a shoulder, but I like a little farther back.

1. 6" left
2. 6" right
3 6-8" right
4. Why are you shooting that cow ... 6" left.
5. 6" right
6. I agree, then on the point of the shoulder.
7. (left Buff) 6" right (right Buff) 2.25" left (Nothing like a nit picker huh?)
8. 6" Left (are you seeing a pattern here?)
9. 6" back on both Bulls.
10. 6" right.

All those shots will work and theoretically, they are all very good heart shots. I like to get closer to the center of the heart lung region. If a twig or a twitch occured, you are looking at a wounded Buffalo in some of these pics.

Wendell,

How's this look? [The white cross hair].



Regards,

Terry

I think it is too far back, yellow is correct but I would go a couple of inches higher to take the top of the heart. But what do I know.

465H&H

Yes, I also think that is too far back. I was just trying to figure out what Wendell meant when he said - 6" Left (are you seeing a pattern here?) - for #8.




Regards,

Terry

DB Bill,

I generally agree with your assessment. I think, in particular, #1 is a bit far forward.

#1 -revised


#2 is a bit harder to tell the perfect shot. If you look at his rear end, he is quartering away. Although he has turned his front half back toward the shooter. Because he is quartering slightly away, I favored a shot placement slightly to the right. Hard to tell on this on.
#2


Regards,

Terry

The shot presented by #10 is the shot presentation I like above the others as it presents "the golden triangle" -- you have the heart and the lungs + you have the neck (spine) dropping down ---- a little more margin of error for a killing shot.

It seems as if no one even the PH's can totally agree on the perfect shot placement from looking at a number of these recent shot placement threads

Any how just to keep all our minds open here is another series of shot placement information to help put in the mix

Cape Buffalo shot placement

Peter

You are right. Your choice on #8 is a better shot than mine.

The author of these pictures is usually a bit low and off the shoulder IMO...The heart lies under the sholder bone and I like to shoot a tad higher then 1/3 up and hit the TOP of the heart...
Taking angle into consideration is to be done on any shot, shoot not at the shoulder facing you but at the off side shoulder and you will always be in good shape...

Ray,

You are correct, those shots are more middle of the heart. If one prefers the high heart shot, then they should all be moved up a bit.

Regards,

Terry

I too like the top heart shots. I'd be really careful on #10, though. My first shot may be a soft, but it will be a very stout soft. If that bull is within 75 yds or so, I would worry about overpenetration with any of the big bores. There isn't much bone there to stop from paying 2 trophy fees. Also, # 6 is a doable shot, right in the pocket about 4" up from the horn in the crease of the neck/chest. Looking at the angle of the photo, you would be high on the opposite bank and the bull's front feet are 6" lower than the rear, giving a nice downward angle. The shot should make spagetti of the ascending blood vessels and top of heart and give a nice long tear down the right lung. My wife says she would not take the left bull in #9 because there is another too close behind it.

Terry,

I am with you 100%. About the only thing that might differ in practice is that I tend to cheat upwards a couple of inches to hit the top of the heart. (my "in practice" for the most part refers to whacking bison)

Otherwise, however, I say your shot placement X-hairs are right on the money.

Cheers,
Canuck

Looks to me that the horn on #6 is actually below the elbow; if you hit the horn, you would have hit too low to make a killing shot. Also, you have advantage of shooting through the body from a slightly elevated angle -- the point of impact to aim for would be slightly (2.5") higher than #1 or #4, if I did my geometry right... I think it was takable.

Dan

Canuck,

On these photos, I tried to place the cross hairs in what I thought was the center of the heart (as best I could). With the way my rifle is usually shaking, that gives me the best margin for error.

But I agree, nothing wrong with bringing all of the shot placements slightly higher by a few inches.

Regards,

Terry

I agree with both guys on #6, there is shot just above the horn because of the shooter's increased elevation. The only thing that scares me is if he raises his head just as I shoot. Then I'm afraid I might hit the horn. If the buffalo is calm, I would probably just give him a few seconds to see if he would present a slightly better shot. Of course, if he raises his head straight up, then he the horn is probably going to block any decent shot. An completely open shot would probably require that he move his head to his right.

Regards,

Terry

quote:

With the way my rifle is usually shaking, that gives me the best margin for error.

Actually, that's why I tend to cheat upwards a couple inches. If I inadvertently jerk the trigger (twitchy nerves from adrenaline), it pulls the POI down. Flinching also has the same effect (forearm hand pulls down in expectation of recoil). So aiming for the top of the heart is a good killing shot if I am steady, and I am covered I jerk down a little.

It has worked really well for me in practice (again, my practical relevant experience is primarly "culling" bison). Jerking or flinching seldom comes into play, but when it has, I still managed to clip the lower half of the heart.

Cheers,
Chris

All but one are perfect brain shots,why are we still doing lung/heart shots on something as dangerous as these old boys? It may be "the thing" to do today, for those who havent saw there life flash in front of their eyes as they are lining up a brain shot and praying they have enough times to pull it off before they are another head line in some african news paper.For all of you who just scoffed at this either you havent hunted them enough or your just another internet buff hunter. Please gents, kill the buggers fast and cleanly, it should be all of our jobs if we want to be called ethical hunters. Charlie

Call me what you will but I wouldn't take a brain shot on these buff, but i would tend to aim a little higher. 4 to 5 inches up.

Head shots are just to risky in my opinion because the quickest thing an animal can move is his head....take the shot and miss the brain and all you have is a buff with a headache and an attitude.

I'll leave the off-hand, long-range brain shots to the experts .

Could you/would you go for a neck shot on #6??

I agree with #10, that was the shot I had. It worked.

We have plenty of time to pick the exact spot we want to hit in this exercise but in real life we will only have 2 to 4 seconds to make that choice. It pays to see the internal organs in x-ray vision. You can only do that by studying exactly where the internal organs lie.

465H&H

Grateful for a bit of education here.
My reaction to all but one of the 1st set of photos was ‘a bit low’ and to most ‘a bit too far forward’.
I really do mean this as an 'educate me' question;, my shot placement ideas are based wholly on Robertson’s ‘vital triangle’ concept given in ‘The Perfect Shot’. I apply it to 95% of my deer shooting (in Buffalo terms, I am –as yet- very much the ‘armchair warrior’!)

I reckon his concept would have given the aimpoints shown in the photos below. Are you fellows generally disagreeing with the vital triangle/high heart concept for buffalo?




and why not a neck shot on No.6?:


Genuine questions…please don’t flame!

T. Carr,

I think 1, 3, 4, 5, right hand bull in 7, 9, and possibly are all too far forward. They all look like a brisket shot, possibly hitting nothing but meat and bone. They may be just a tad low - if you wobble any at all, the shot will go low and just clip the bottom of the brisket. Number 6 could be held about 6 inches above the curl of the horn or just to the right of that crease in the neck about 6 inches above the boss (it appears Brown Dog beat me to this). As I posted in your first post - align the vertical crosshair with the most rearward front leg, approx 1/3 up the chest.

P.S. Great visual Brown Dog.

Opinions are like, well, but here gos with another.

I think the center of the heart shot best. The buffalo I have shot tended to bleed out and die very quickly so shot.

The first buff I shot was in the upper rear part of the "triangle". The bullet caught the upper lobe of both lungs and that guy led us a merry chase over most of the rest of that day. Not something that I would like to repeat...

As to the brain shot, look at a buff skull when you have a chance. The brain cavity is VERY small and largely covered by horn boss in several angles.

I have tried to spine crippled, standing buff and find it difficult. I, myself, would not shoot for the spine on a first shot. Watch as your first few buff are butchered and you will learn alot. The heart becomes easy to visualize and a heart shot animal, even a big old dagga boy, will not live long with a big hole in his heart. IMHO lung shots are dicy on buff and brain and spine shots are really for pro.s like Saeed for a first shot.

Brett

Regarding Robertson's shot placement, here is what Ganyana said in a recent post.

Couple of Comments

Kevin Robertson, and I dissected a couple of buffalo with an artist called Grant Nelon. Kevin used the drawing, posted by bala bala, in his first book and in a magazine article. It is correct anatomically as far as I am concerned. To stop the organs moving around, we even stood one up in a blast freezer and then halved it with a saw.

The high shoulder shot is a favourite of a few hunters, but very few PH's. If you know what you are doing the buff goes down instantly. If you don't and the buff runs off, you have a 50/50 chance of a "wounded and lost" buff on the clients fees at the end of the hunt.

A good tracker will be able to follow a lung or gut shot buff until you get him, but a fluffed high shoulder shot... The wound soon stops bleeding, offers no impediment to movement, and doesn't make the animal limp or anything else to aid tracking.

Personally- I use that shot myself when the animal is broadside. I don't mind the client using it, just appreciate that it is an "all or nothing" shot.

For a charge, or if the animal is standing facing me, I like an "under the chin" shot to break the spine if the animal is facing me Head up, or an "over the head" shot if it is grazing or badly hit and coming with the head held low. From this AR Topic

My placement of the cross hairs in the pictures above, as I have stated before, are center-of-heart. Personally, I don't have problem with raising the shot a few inches above the cross hairs shown in the pictures. I was trying to show the center of the heart, it probably would have been better to use a circle or oval as an aiming point instead of the cross hairs.

Something people need to realize is how low the heart is and how forward the lungs are. I believe the Cape buffalo's anatomy is slightly different than most North American game. What is clear from the schematics, is that you don't want to be too far back.

As far as the neck/spine shot goes, based on my direct experience of having made a shot like that, IMHO, I would not recommend it unless you have a dead-steady rest at 50 yards or less. The margin of error on a neck/spine is too small. Off by a few inches and you will have a wounded and lost buffalo.







Regards,

Terry

P.S.
Yes, that oval would have been better. Gives a better representation of what I was trying to do.

Terry,

I think you really nailed it in your last post. This was a great thread and very useful, a perfect example of why this site is so valueable IMHO. I wish I would have read this post before my first buff hunt.

Best regards;
Brett

Thanks. Point taken that the vitals appear to be packed further forward than in deer etc.

..I'm not clear what ganyana means by a 'high shoulder' shot...I presume that this is a broadside spinal shot above the shoulder joint(?) ...if so, that sounds as unforgiving as he describes!

Roberston favors the high heart/lung shot, because, as I understand it, it disrupts the blood flow immediately by "messing up the plumbing at the top of the heart."

Here is what Robertson says about shot placement on buffalo.

"The ideal position for the quick-killing high heart/lung shot is fully broadside. The easiest way to take this shot is to sight up the front leg, then shoot between one-third and slightly less than halfway up the body on the central line of the front leg when the animal is in a normal standing position.

There is a large margin of error with this shot. Shoot too high, and you'll hit the scapula and spine lying diagonally beneath it. Shoot too low, and you'll hit the heart itself, which lies beneath the humerus and beneath the and in front of the elbow joint. Shots placed too far behind the shoulder can be a problem because the lungs do not extend rearward much beyond the a line joining the point of the elbow and the back edge of the scapula. However, such a shot will usually hit some part of the liver, which lies well forward in the lower half of the abdomen."

Regards,

Terry

Now if I could just get all those buff to show up and stand still when I've got the rifle on the sticks!

"I'll take two #8s please, and supersize 'em!"

Or the one with the red dot please

This is helpful to someone like me who has yet to go. Thanks

I deeply appreciated this exercise!!! Absolutely wonderful!

Dan

Terry,

Thanks for a very informative thread. It will be a couple of years before I get to go after a buffalo, I'm going for leopard and PG in May, but this thread certainly gave me a lot of helpful information.

Terry,

My aiming point was just above your crosshairs with a little tweeting left or right on a few...I like to aim for the top part of the heart to tear up as much of the major plumbing as possible..On the mudd covered buff that black crosshair is my aiming point...

Great post...

Mike

My favorite shot is where the thickest part of the neck joins the shoulder..there lies a mass of spine, short ribs off the spine, shoulder blade and all sorts of goodies..a shot there will knock a buff down for the count paralized or kill it instantly, at any rate he can't get to his feet and you have plenty of time to walk up and give him a couple of more...it works for me...