Dawie Groenewald: Defence gets more time in Out of Africa poaching case

Johannesburg - Eleven people appeared in the Musina Magistrate's Court on Tuesday for allegedly dehorning rhinos and selling the horns without a permit, the National Prosecuting Authority said.

"The matter was postponed to October 19 to give the defence time to finalise their application on further particulars on the charges," NPA spokesperson Mthunzi Mhaga said.

Game farm owner Dawie Groenewald was among the accused.

He and the 10 others were implicated in the dehorning of rhinos and selling the horns internationally without permits.

Groenewald, 42, owns the farm Prachtig, outside Musina.

He was arrested in September 2010 along with several other people - including his wife and two veterinarians - on charges related to rhino poaching.

Typical politically connected crminals.

Anyone wants to bet they will not be charged?

Dawie Groenewald, the man that so loved Zimbabwe that he plundered all its rhinos, elephants


BULAWAYO - Any search around the name of South African national Dawie Groenewald would be incomplete if it omits to mention that the man is a former member of the South African Police Services (SAPS) who was dishonourably discharged from the force after an internal probe found him guilty of taking stolen cars straight out of the recovered stolen vehicle pound and selling them back to criminals and unsuspecting citizens.

It is also known publicly that Groenewald is the director of Out of Africa Adventurous Safaris, a hunting outfit operating out of the small outpost of Old Days about 100km from Musina. The company is also registered in the same name at Overland Park in the United States county of Kansas. Out Africa Adventurous Safaris, which also operates in Botswana, Kenya, Tanzania and has a European business representative based in Paris, France, also trades as Adventurous Safaris on the world wide web offering safari hunts in in its African bases.

But that is all there is to be known if one does not burrow deeper into the operations of the 43 year-old Groenewald, the man arrested by the South African Hawks special investigations unit on allegations of being the mastermind behind what has come to be known as the Musina Mafia, an outfit which could turn out to be Africa's biggest rhino, elephant and lion poaching syndicate if proven to have existed.

Eleven members of the "Musina Mafia", led by Groenewald, his 35 year-old American born wife Sariette, professional hunter Tielman Erasmus, veterinarians Karel Toets, Manie du Pleiss and Marissa Toet were early this month remanded to September when they appeared in court to face charges of poaching, illegal gun possession and many other associated crimes in the border town of Musina. The busting of the syndicate uplifted the spirits of South African conservation farmers and animal rights activists who have reasons to believe it was behind sophisticated poaching raids that killed even those rhinos deemed to be in the safest of the country's animal sanctuaries.

However, an investigation conducted over the last two months by the Daily News reveals a paper trail of the Groenewald operations that leads into Zimbabwe and exposes how he used his links with top ZANU PF officials in the murky safari hunting business to take full advantage of the utter chaos created by President Robert Mugabe's fast track land reform to carry out illegal rhino, elephant and lions hunts while earning even more illicit dollars from inflating the number of hunts on his legally acquired quotas. That was until the Parks and Wildlife Management Authority noticed his activities banned him from operating in the country, first in mid 2003 and finally in September 2004.

On the contrary, evidence gathered by the Daily News shows that the ban did not stop Out Africa Adventurous Safaris and its international agents from conducting business in Zimbabwe until 2006, shortly before Groenewald was suspended from the South African Professional Hunters Association for conducting illegal hunts and abusing legally acquired hunting quotas. From its base on 7930 W 155th Terrace, Overland Parks, Kansas 66223 in the US, Out Africa Adventurous Safaris has over the years been able to attract scores of American hunters into the five African countries that still have rhino, elephant and lion territory - South Africa, Botswana, Kenya, Tanzania, Zambia and Zimbabwe.

Information available to the Daily News suggests that Out Africa Adventurous Safaris came to the notice of Zimbabwean animal rights activists in 2003 when 250 bateleur eagles were exported to a falcon-breeder Sheikh in United Arab Emirates, the Middle East's equivalent of the proverbial island plenty in a sea of grinding poverty. According to a March 2003 report posted on wildlife website Africa Indaba, the international concern at the sale rose because it was allegedly done through a deal facilitated by ZANU PF-linked Ed Kadzombe whose safari hunting business E.K Safaris trades out of Number 30 Golden Stairs Avenue in the plush suburb of Avondale in Harare.

At that time it was known that EK Safaris was the Zimbabwe partner for Out Africa Adventurous Safaris and operated in many parts of the Gwayi Valley Conservancy and around the Sinamatela and Matetsi Five concessions near Victoria Falls where the company is also alleged to have facilitated the sale and translocation of 160 sables from a private conservancy in the Chinhoyi area to South Africa, allegedly with the help of Vitalis Chadenga, then acting director in the Parks and Wildlife Management Authority.

The South African Professional Hunters Association suspected that Out Africa Adventurous Safaris, using its proximity to Zimbabwe, of facilitating the illegal deal which latter turned sour and became public when Ed Kadzombe, his South Africa buyer and the legal owner of the sable fought a court battle over the non-payment of money involved in the deal. Reporting on the court battle, South African newspaper Business Day said the average cost of a live sable in the SA market at that time was R4000, which placed the total cost of the animals involved at R93 000.

At the the height of the international outcry over poaching in Zimbabwe in 2003, animal rights activists started expressing concern that the rhino and elephant poaching crisis was being fueled by unscrupulous foreign safari operators in collusion with government ministers, wildlife management officers, elements of the security forces and ZANU PF henchman who had invaded the farms. But the identities were to come in January 2003 when 'well-organised' poachers slaughtered four black rhinos at Sinamatela camp.

Officially, no one was arrested for the offence but information supplied by national parks investigations sources suggests that while the concession on which the animals were shot was legally under EK Safaris, it was a group of American hunters brought illegally into the country and by the Out Africa Adventurous Safaris and allowed to operate through collusion with EK Safaris who had carried out the massacre and left it with the hallmarks of a poaching scene.

The investigation also revealed that Out Africa Adventurous Safaris, with the help of Zimbabwean partners EK Safaris and Inyathi Hunters, a company jointly-owned by former Matabeleland North governor and ZANU PF provincial chairman Jacob Mudenda and Enio Di Palmer (who owns Bulawayo-based steel-manufacturing firm Steelforce), used their American representative Richard Putman of Seminole Safaris in the US state of Alabama to lure hundreds of American hunters to conduct illegal hunts in the Gwayi Valley Conservancy, Hwange National Park and the Matetsi Five Intensive Conservation Areas between 2003 and 2005.

In Zimbabwe, Out Africa Adventurous Safaris used its hunters-co-directors Nick Van Rensburg and Glen Van Rensburg were assisted by EK Safaris and Zimbabwean professional hunters Albert Paradzai, PH licence number 6016 B, described as a former pilot with the Parks and Wildlife Authority, Dawie Van Der Westhuizen PH licence no. 5957 B, who was then listed as a farmer in Karoi and Chris Chitsa, professional PH licence number 5780B. Between 2003 and 2005, conservationists records on the tracking of vehicles which were seen driving into and out of poaching hot spots created a consistent log on which nine Toyota Land Cruiser vehicles fitted with registration numbers DDM 850 N, DWF 519 N, FFC 217 N, MWF 519, DDM 865 N, FBG 847 N, FBT 052 N, FBR 649 N and FBJ 847 N. The letter N shows that all the vehicles were registered in the Northern Province.

"These companies, professional hunters and motor vehicles were hunting within the Gwayi Valley Conservancy where they were mainly concentrating their illegal operations on Goodluck Ranch, Chimwara Ranch, Railway Farm 35 and Sekumi Estates and Railway Farm 31," reads part of the summary of the 2003 Gwayi Valley Conservancy Hunting Report.

The report also notes the illegal operations of professional hunters Bagman Chauke PH Licence No.6092B, Dellerman PH Licence No. 5874B, Thulani Dube PH Licence No. 6096B, Guy Venter PH licence no. 5919B, Phil Palmer, PH licence no. 5801B, one Ndlovu PH licence no. 6070B, one Chimiaza PH Licence no. 6064B, and a B Jolliffe with PH licence no. 5920B. They were all employed by Nyati Safaris and were seen by poaching watchers on many occasions guiding illegal foreign hunters, most of whom were Americans, in the black rhino zones of the Gwayi Valley Conservancy and Woodlands Estate in the Matetsi Five concession area.

The report also reveals that the endless chain of American hunters who were guests of Nyati Hunters, came through the Out Africa Adventurous Safaris which got them through Nyati Safaris American agents Dick and Mary Cabela of Cabela's Outdoor Adventures, a company listed as operating out of Number 1, Cabela Drive, Sidney in Nebraska, USA. But the Out Africa Adventurous Safaris was not the only South African outfit involved in plundering Zimbabwe's rhino heritage. South African brothers Piet and Hendrik Uys, directors of Northern Weapons which is also trading in Afrikaans as 'Noordlike Wapens' out of Louis Trichadt in the Northern Province are ported to have conducted extensive illegal hunts in the same area at the same time.

The Uys brothers are believed to be the owners of three Toyota Land Cruiser trucks with registration numbers NWZ 918 GP, FBD 185 N AND DPK 173 N and the Gwayi Hunting Report of 2003 observes their actions as follows: "These characters were very active through out the year within the Gwayi Valley Conservancy, mainly concentrating on Gwayi Ranch, Hankano Ranch, Lot 1 of Dete Valley Railway Farms 35 & 36 and Chimwara Ranch. They were hunting indiscriminately shooting young animals, females etc."

"In the course of the year, Gwayi Valley Conservancy members also questioned illegal hunters on their farms. The name given to them of the South African hunters were Andre De Jaager who was caught poaching while driving a blue Land Rover Vehicle registration number DMT 498 GP and one R M Saunders of Jack Rand, Alberton in Johannesburg who claimed to have been brought into the country by Elephant Eye Safaris. The above were seen in the company of three American hunters and De Jaager shot and wounded a buffalo on Sotani Ranch. De Jaager is staying at the Lodge on Chamankanu Ranch. He has also been seen hunting on Lugo Ranch (owned by Vice-President John Nkomo) and Skukungwa farms. He has been arrested twice for hunting illegally on Skukungwa Ranch," reads part of the 2003 hunting report.

South African national Mark Sparrow of Fair Chase Safaris in Polokwane, old Zimbabwean vehicle registration number 587 150F, was also reported to have conducted extensive illegal hunts. "Sparrow has been hunting on Hankano Ranch and Lot 1 of Dete Valley and reportedly wants to start a fishing safari business in Masuna Island on the Zambezi. He has already made offers to property owners from Masuna. This desire to purchase land is not illegal, but is an indication of his presence in the area. He is involved with the Uys brothers of Northern Weapons, Louis Trichadt," the report noted in 2003.

The report also reveals the activities of Henry F. Neil, a controversial Cape Town clergyman who is described as a story worth following. "Henry. F. Nel is a minister in the Rock of Africa Christian mission in Cape Town. He apparently would not allow any blacks into his church there, but is quite happy to form illicit liaisons with black Zimbabweans. He is apparently assisting a school in the Gwaai area to justify his position there. He is apparently working out of Kalambeza Lodge which is situated on Umkombo Ranch with in the Gwayi Valley Conservancy.

"Further, this character is known to the Gwayi Valley Conservancy for the destruction and decimation of the natural resources and wildlife on two certain pieces of land known as Carl Lisa and Bindonvale which he was leasing. He was the first person in the Gwayi Valley Conservancy to receive an order to stop all activities, including hunting operations, chopping of trees and general destruction of fauna and flora on his land."

French national Jerome Sefridi, who is the director of Indaba Safaris of 10 Anthony Potts Road, Fortunes Gate in Bulawayo is also listed as having brought dozens of hunters from France to hunt illegally in the Gwayi Conservancy. Sefridi is a French national resident in Zimbabwe. He has been selling hunts to the French hunting community.He hunted extensively with-in the Gwayi Valley Conservancy, concentrating his illegal activities to Lot 1, 2, 3A of Dete Valley, Goodluck Ranch, Sikumi Estates, Chimwara Ranch, Gwayi Ranch and Hankano Ranches. He drives and hunts in a green Mitsubishi jeep registration number 797-699 F."

As evidence gathered by Daily News shows, Out Africa Adventurous Safaris moved out of the Gwayi Conservancy in early 2003 after being temporarily banned for carrying out illegal hunts but still used their Zimbabwean connections to set up another operations based in the resort town of Victoria Falls to continue operations until the final ban in September 2004. In June 2003 a tracking collar taken off a lionese that was shot illegally was found in the homestead of Lot 2 Dete Valley Farm during the stay of a group of hunters from Hwange Safari Lodge and some from Out Africa Adventurous Safaris were reported to be staying at the hotel whose major shareholders are ZANU PF.

A surveillance log obtained by Daily News from the parks intelligence noted that on July 24, 2003, three South African Land Cruisers which had their number plates removed arrived in the Gwayi Conservancy and an occupant of one the vehicles was reportedly seen bribing officials at the veterinary road block before driving onto Goodluck Farm where hunting blinds were latter discovered to have been built around animal watering points.

"On 2 September 2003 four Americans were seen arriving in Victoria Falls. They were collected by a South African operator who turned out to be Out Africa Adventurous Safaris and were overheard saying they wanted to shoot as much as possible. On 4 September, a white Land Rover, vehicle registration FBT052N and belonging to Out Africa Adventurous Safaris was seen dropping zebra meat at the PTC (now Tel One) offices in Vic Falls although public vehicles are not permitted into this area," reads part of the parks investigations report.

As the watch on Out Africa Adventurous Safaris operations continued, undercover investigators witnessed the arrival of two Landrover twin-cab vehicles, registration numbers FBG 847 N and FBR 649 N with two American clients in Bulawayo on 15 September 2003 but the investigators lost track of the vehicles and were unable to determine where they went until they re-appeared in Hwange National Park where they operated for the whole month. The surveillance log also states that on 25 September 2003, two vehicles from Out of Africa, a white Land Rover twin cab with registration number DWF 519 N and a green Toyota Land Cruiser double cab with registration number DDM 865N were seen in Victoria Falls filled with American hunters.

The log submits that Out Africa Adventurous Safaris remained active in the national parks as confirmed by the numerous sighting of three Out Africa Adventurous Safaris vehicles with registration numbers FBG 848N, DWF 519N and FBG 847N between 30 September 2003 and 16 October 2003 around Bulawayo, Victoria Falls, Hwange National Park and Half Way Hotel inside the Gwayi Conservancy loaded with clients who told undercover investigators they were from America and South Africa. Based on the surveillance findings, the Parks and Wildlife Management Authority wrote Out Africa Adventurous Safaris the final notice of expulsion from Zimbabwe.

"We refer to our letter dated September 24 and signed by Director General MZ Mtsambiwa and we wish to further clarify the letter and its effect on Out Africa Adventurous Safaris. Please be advised that in terms of the Parks and Wildlife Act Chapter 20:14, Out Africa Adventurous Safaris is not allowed to operate as a safari operator conducting any hunting nor safari operations in the whole country of Zimbabwe. Our previous letter cited the Gwayi Intensive Conservation Area which was then known to be the operational area of Out Africa Adventurous Safaris. However, the company and all its staff are not allowed to conduct any business without the requisite licences and or permits from the appropriate authorities in Zimbabwe in terms of the laws and regulations of the country," reads the main body of the letter that expelled Out Africa Adventurous Safaris from Zimbabwe.

Zimbabwe Conservation Taskforce chairman Johnny Rodrigues told the Daily News that the trial of the Musina Mafia remains an issue of interest to Zimbabwean conservationists who believe it will help lift the heavy lid on the politically connected rhino and elephant poaching syndicates which are still ravaging the parks.

"Out Africa Adventurous Safaris left a big footprint of their illegal operations in Zimbabwe. They were very much behind the decimation of not just elephant and rhino, but the zebra population in the sanctuaries around West Nicholson in Gwanda has been decimated for hides. Our understanding is that most of these poachers take the skins to the Out Africa Adventurous Safaris taxidermist factory in Old Days where they are tanned and prepared for export to Europe while elephant and rhino products are sent on to the Vietnamese and Chinese syndicates which finance this carnage. We will be very happy to meet the Hawks and tell them what we know about Out Africa Adventurous Safaris and many other unscrupulous South Africans who got their riches from plundering the wildlife heritage of this country," Rodrigues said.

It is a world-wide syndicate that has no respect for anything or anyone. Greed does that. Another bad thing is that us legal and honest people are shaved with the same comb as them and that sucks.

Nearly two and a half years after their arrest, South Africa’s notorious ‘Groenewald Gang’ has managed to delay justice for the fourth time.

National Prosecuting Authority spokesperson, Mthunzi Mhaga, told Times Live that the case has been postponed until 19th October.

“The matter was postponed to October 19 to give the defence time to finalise their application on further particulars on the charges,” NPA spokesman Mthunzi Mhaga said.

The eleven suspects – which include veterinarians, professional hunters, a helicopter pilot, and safari operators – are suspected of killing hundreds of rhinos for their horns.

They face a whopping 1,872 charges ranging from illegal rhino hunting to racketeering, permit violations, illegal trade in rhino horn, money laundering, and violating the Biodiversity Act and the Act on the Prevention of Organised Crime.

The ‘Groenewald Gang’ appeared in court in September 2011 after being slapped with a 637-paged indictment and a witness list of 185 names.

Striking resemblance to the ‘Boere Mafia’ trial

The ‘Groenewald Gang’ is only the second (suspected) rhino horn syndicate to have been brought to court.

The first – dubbed the ‘Boere Mafia’ – was postponed numerous times, before finally being ‘struck from the roll’ in late 2010.

Much like the ‘Groenewald Gang’, the ‘Boere Mafia’ involved safari operators and professional hunters – namely Saaiman Safaris’ Gert Saaiman and Sandhurst Safaris’ Clayton Fletcher.

Also like the Limpopo eleven, most of the suspected syndicate members were released on bail.

Only two were denied bail and they are the same two that are the only ‘game-industry white guys’ accused of rhino crimes that have actually been imprisoned (although both received reduced sentences).

Their case was ultimately thrown out of court on the grounds that the charges unjustly stemmed from arrests made four years earlier and that the prosecutor’s litigation was largely based on the questionable testimony of a convicted felon (one believed to be an accomplice of the crime ring who seems to have been intimidated into not testifying).

According to Eyewitness News, the presiding judge also said that the case had gone on long enough to negatively impact the suspects’ social life.

The judge said they are losing their social standing because of delays caused by a man in prison.

Business as usual

Despite the apparent mountain of evidence against them, many members of the ‘Groenewald Gang’ appear to have returned to ‘business as usual’.

In fact, alleged syndicate mastermind, Dawie Groenewald, was issued three times as many permits (44) to hunt, convey, import and/or export white rhinos within the first six months following his arrest than the total number (11) he was granted in the almost two years leading up to his being nabbed by authorities.

The veterinarians accused of being involved in the rhino horn syndicate, Karel Toet and Manie du Plessis, have also been back to the grind – apparently even conducting relocations of the very animals they are accused of murdering.

Rap sheet

Groenewald’s personal rap sheet runs back many, many years – even back to his early days as a former police officer, when he was apparently fired for his involvement in a stolen vehicle smuggling ring.

In early 2010, the man was convicted of a felony in the US for illegally importing a leopard that was unlawfully hunted in South Africa four years prior.

Just after their arrest, popular South African television news show, Carte Blanche, linked the veterinarians to a disturbing attack on a critically endangered black rhino named ‘Phila’.

Then a mass grave containing at least 20 hornless, mutilated rhino carcasses was unearthed on the Groenewalds’ ‘Pragtig’ farm in Musina.

It was later learned that Groenewald had purchased at least three dozen rhinos from the Kruger National Park between June and July 2009; however, there also appears to be some discrepancies with the numbers and types of permits that were issued to the suspected rhino horn kingpin around that time.

All of the eleven suspects arrested in 2010 were released on bail, with Groenewald’s set at a record R1 million (over US $132,000).

His bail amount was later reduced by 90% and although all had to forfeit their passports to the state early on, it appears those have since been returned to the suspects.

Although a total of thirteen suspects were arrested in connection to this case in 2010, charges against two individuals — Leon van der Merwe and Josef Maluleke — were dropped at their last court date.

The eleven now await their fifth court appearance, which is scheduled to take place just after the third anniversary of their arrests.

Meanwhile, at least 181 rhinos have been slayed for their medicinally useless horns in South Africa in the first 113 days of this year, following the record 448 that were killed in 2011.

Incredible!!

Make me sick in the gut! How can they issue Rhino permits to the same guys while they are under criminal prosecution?

1,872 charges ranging from illegal rhino hunting to racketeering, permit violations, illegal trade in rhino horn, money laundering, and violating the Biodiversity Act and the Act on the Prevention of Organised Crime.

637-paged indictment and a witness list of 185 names.


These impressive numbers make the alleged 25+ SCI 'Ethics' Committee complaints, alleging theft and extortion by their Number One hunt donator, Out of Africa, pale by comparison.

However, in this sticky wicket, the Groenewald Gang doesn't have the advantage of being legally represented by current SCI President Kevin Anderson, who, although he was Chairman of the SCI 'Ethics' Committee, was in fact the attorney of record for Out of Africa Adventurous Safaris.

quote:

Originally posted by Alan Bunn:
1,872 charges ranging from illegal rhino hunting to racketeering, permit violations, illegal trade in rhino horn, money laundering, and violating the Biodiversity Act and the Act on the Prevention of Organised Crime.

637-paged indictment and a witness list of 185 names.


These impressive numbers make the 25+ SCI 'Ethics' Committee complaints, alleging theft and extortion by their Number One hunt donator, Out of Africa, pale by comparison.

However, in this sticky wicket, the Groenewald Gang doesn't have the advantage of being legally represented by current SCI President Kevin Anderson, who, although he was Chairman of the SCI 'Ethics' Committee, was in fact the attorney of record for Out of Africa Adventurous Safaris.

When was the last time OOA was allowed to exhibit at SCI???

IIRC, it was over 2 years AFTER Dawie had been convicted in US Federal Court for felony smuggling of an endangered species( leopard). and as stated Kevin Anderson( SCI Chairman of their "ETHICS" committee) was OoA attorney of record. this whole sorry affair and SCI's handling of it, was what led to my(and many others) withdrawal from SCI.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
IIRC, it was over 2 years AFTER Dawie had been convicted in US Federal Court for felony smuggling of an endangered species( leopard). and as stated Kevin Anderson( SCI Chairman of their "ETHICS" committee) was OoA attorney of record. this whole sorry affair and SCI's handling of it, was what led to my(and many others) withdrawal from SCI.

Interesting.... Dawie was arrested in the USA in 2010... so I guess that means that OOA was at the SCI convention this year??

http://www.huntingreport.com/w...te.cfm?articleid=520

no he was convicted in 2010 for smuggling a leopard that was killed 4 years earlier-arrested well before the conviction. courts here, like everywhere, are slow- sort of like the SCI "ethics " committee in dispensing justice. that's why i prefaced my comment with IIRC. i think most here got the point. money( donations/political connections) talks and poachers walk- at least as far as some organizations are concerned. if you bother to read ALL of the above posts, you will see that AoA had a long history of illegal hunting( AT LEAST AS FAR BACK AS 2003) with no reprecussions from SCI. guess it helps to have friends in high places.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
no he was convicted in 2010 for smuggling a leopard that was killed 4 years earlier-arrested well before the conviction. courts here, like everywhere, are slow- sort of like the SCI "ethics " committee in dispensing justice. that's why i prefaced my comment with IIRC. i think most here got the point. money( donations/political connections) talks and poachers walk- at least as far as some organizations are concerned. if you bother to read ALL of the above posts, you will see that AoA had a long history of illegal hunting( AT LEAST AS FAR BACK AS 2003) with no reprecussions from SCI. guess it helps to have friends in high places.

Lets stick with the facts shall we?? He was first arrested in the USA in 2010.

I did read all of the posts!!! Do you know what facts were actually reported to SCI prior to their expulsion in 2010??

Yes it is a mess but OOA hasnt been around SCI for a couple years now. All this crap you go on about SCI - just clouds the news that these crooks are going to get away with blue murder in RSA!!! I guess SCI is to blame for that too eh??

I know the chief investigating officer of Nature Conservation well and he told me yesterday that it is better for the case that the date is postponed because it gives them more time to get evidence for all the cases and not just a few.

This guy has been around a lot and is he says that Dawie will come short then I trust him. 1800+ cases does not take a week to get all the evidence. Give time. Let us see what happens. Another factor is that there are multiple countries and people involved. Some are high in Government so it is not that easy to get convictions on all the cases.

The problems with Out of Africa have been going on for a number of years.

They were brought to SCI attention.

But, as Out of Africa's lawyer is a big honch at SCI, they decided to turn a blind eye to it.

The SCI management have lost track of what they are supposed to do for hunters.

All they care about now how much money they make.

Have any of you tried to report anyone to the ethics committe?

Have you seen what they do?

I was wondering how long it would take for all the crimes committed by this scumbag to become the fault of SCI. Well ... it didn't take long! We all know that AR is anti SCI and pro DSC. But I distinctively remember going by the OOA booth a couple of years in a row at the DSC show. I don't remember the exact year but I think it was 08 and 09? I could be wrong on those numbers but not off by too far as I walked by those booths with my friend from Ntshonalanga Safaris in RSA. He was here in town and stayed at my house for the DSC show sometime after 07, so yeah, I think it was 08 and 09. Could have even been 2010. When was the last time OOA exhibited at DSC? Anyone have old programs from previous shows that could look that up? Why no public outcry about DSC letting them exhibit? For certain, OOA exhibited at DSC after the initial dustup with the leopard, possibly prior to the conviction, but after concerns were raised. Does the DSC ethics committee work slowly as well?

On a related subject, remember Safrique? Yep, they exhibited at DSC as well. Donated a couple of hunts that were auctioned off at the DSC banquet. With all the heated exchanges about them over on the Hunting Reports Section, why were all the negative comments concerning allowing them to exhibit and donate hunts directed at SCI? They participated at DSC as well!

Todd,

If DSC has allowed OOA and Safrique to exhibit at their shows, and have accepted donations from them, then they are no better than SCI.

However,OoA had a paid employee high up in SCI, who I am sure has prolonged their existence at SCI and have deflected a lot of the blame put against them.

That is totall unacceptable as far as I am concerned for an orgenization like SCI.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Todd,

If DSC has allowed OOA and Safrique to exhibit at their shows, and have accepted donations from them, then they are no better than SCI.

However,OoA had a paid employee high up in SCI, who I am sure has prolonged their existence at SCI and have deflected a lot of the blame put against them.

That is totall unacceptable as far as I am concerned for an orgenization like SCI.

I don't disagree with you Saeed. Corruption in any organization is unacceptable.

I'm just questioning why SCI always catches the grief here on AR about who donated or exhibited when the same outfitters exhibited and donated hunts at the DSC event 1 month prior. No one ever calls DSC out on it, but it never gets by the SCI bashers! As mentioned, I don't recall the exact dates of the last time I saw OOA at DSC. It would be interesting if someone has access to the DSC and SCI records, or just the show programs, to take a look back and see what the last year was that OOA was allowed to exhibit at DSC and SCI. My guess is the last year they were there will be the same for both organizations and it will be either 09 or 10.

Todd

The one very important difference between the SCI & DSC 'donation' schemes is that the former is compulsory and the latter is voluntary.

Therefore one is close to extortion and the other is a genuine voluntary donation.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Todd

The one very important difference between the SCI & DSC 'donation' schemes is that the former is compulsory and the latter is voluntary.

Therefore one is close to extortion and the other is a genuine voluntary donation.

Really, SCI donations are compulsory? Someone actually forces an outfitter to fly 1/2 way across the world to come to the Nevada show and donate a hunt? Is it done at gun point? OMG, what are the consequences if they don't come to Nevada and donate a hunt? I ain't buying that. For whatever reason, whether or not a hunt donation is required to get into the show, someone who participates in the event has obviously made the decision that a donated hunt in return for the exposure is sound financially. Again, it's advertising pure and simple. If you want the exposure, you pay for it. If you want to advertise in Peterson's Hunting, Sports Afield, Outdoor Life, or any number of other Hunting oriented publications, you have to pay to place an add. Is that "compulsory" or "extortion" as well? Don't think so!

Look, I don't want to get into another bash SCI pissing match. The only point I was making is that I continue to hear about how SCI allows the "bad guys" to exhibit and donate hunts. But those same outfitters exhibit and donate hunts at DSC 1 month prior. Why does SCI get bashed for allowing the exhibits and hunt donations by less than reputable outfitters when those same outfitters are exhibiting and donating hunts at DSC also. Where is the outcry for DSC to police its participants. Just Sayin!

Ok, I'm done hijacking this thread, but it was drifting this way already. I was only trying to point out the hypocrisy of calling out one organization for it's turning a blind eye and giving the other one a pass simply because it's the "IN" crowd here.

Todd

You asked what the difference was and I told you......... what's the problem?

Why get all arsey when you don't like the answer?

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Todd

You asked what the difference was and I told you......... what's the problem?

Why get all arsey when you don't like the answer?

Steve, I did not ask what the difference was between the way DSC and SCI acquires donations. That may be the answer you gave, but it wasn't the question.

You and I have a difference of opinion on the donated hunts with SCI. That's OK. Differences of opinion are what lead to meaningful discussions.

The question was, why does SCI get scolded for allowing a less than reputable outfitter to exhibit and donate hunts when DSC allows the very same outfitter to exhibit and donate hunts at their show, 1 month prior, but never gets called out for it? Why not insist that both organizations keep the riffraff out?

But going with your answer Steve, are you saying that it's ok for DSC to let less than reputable outfitters exhibit and donate hunts simply because donating the hunt isn't a requirement to exhibit at the show? Therefore DSC gets a pass for allowing them into the event?

But because SCI requires a donated hunt in order to exhibit, they get called out for allowing that same less than reputable outfitter to donate and exhibit? Now that a headscratcher if there ever was one!

I'm not trying to be arsey for not liking the answer. I'm trying to get a legitimate answer to why DSC never gets called on the carpet for allowing the same outfitters to donate and exhibit, one month prior to the SCI show, and then SCI and only SCI gets admonished for it!

There is an implication on this thread that SCI allowed OOA to attend the SCI show as a participant AFTER it was proven that they were scumbags. If my memory serves me correctly, and I may very well be wrong, I think I remember seeing OOA at the DSC show as a participant AFTER it was proven they they were scumbags as well. If that is the case, why is SCI and only SCI taking the heat for allowing them to exhibit and donate. Why is DSC not being held to the same standard? That question really doesn't have anything to do with SCI donations being required by participants and DSC's being voluntary. Either way, let's keep the rotten eggs out!

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Todd

The one very important difference between the SCI & DSC 'donation' schemes is that the former is compulsory and the latter is voluntary.

Therefore one is close to extortion and the other is a genuine voluntary donation.

One is clearly documented (SCI) and the other is not (DSC) - in relation to donations and how it effects booth placement.

Dont let me stand in the way of a good SCI bashing though. You guys dont need a lot of excuse to do it.

yes, you are right. the SCI extortion scheme is clearly documented. big " donation" equals good booth placement- regardless of other factors, including ethical hunting. my best guess is Dawie will never be brought to justice. follow the money and political connections on both contntents and i predict he will walk. the difference between SCI and DCS, is that Dawie's lawyer in the US was SCI'S PRESIDENT ELECT. coincidence?? I THINK NOT!

Just a correction. it is Alldays, where he opperates and where the taxidermy is, old days does not exist in south Africa.

Todd

My connection is so crap at the moment, I only had time to skim your previous post so guess I misunderstood....... I agree the bad apples ought to be kept out of the industry completely.

Donny is 110% correct about Alldays. I don't know if it's still there but for years there was a bloody great signboard on the side of the filling station(?) that boasted 'WELCOME TO OUT OF AFRICA COUNTRY' or some such BS.

I have been fighting these a holes for almost 14 or 15 years now. I can only say there must still be lots of money changing hands. Anyone with more than a couple brain cells can see that something stinks besides a rotting carcass.
I am at a point where I pretty much cant do it anymore. In the end it has only made a small difference, but that is better than nothing I guess. I can only hope that real justice prevails in the end.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
yes, you are right. the SCI extortion scheme is clearly documented. big " donation" equals good booth placement- regardless of other factors, including ethical hunting. my best guess is Dawie will never be brought to justice. follow the money and political connections on both contntents and i predict he will walk. the difference between SCI and DCS, is that Dawie's lawyer in the US was SCI'S PRESIDENT ELECT. coincidence?? I THINK NOT!

Dallas Safari Club is close to the grassy knoll too

BTW - I do love DSC ... I dont know why they have to get dragged into these stupid comparisons.

Guys, I know many of you have serious problems with SCI. I am ok with that. We can discuss that in another thread. PLEASE don't detract from the OOA and Dawie thing by dragging them into it. We can discuss that on the other thread. I don't want to loose track of the original post and what is going on with Groenwald and the rest of his ilk. Who wants to bet that if it looks like the case is going to go against him he will quietly disappear, more than likely across the Zim boarder and points unknown from there. Of course since he has still been buying rhinos at auction Im sure he can afford to buy as much "justice" as he wants.

at the end of the day in Africa, money talks and bullshit walks- and Dawie has the money. i am betting he never sees justice. just look at what has happened so far. bail reduced, trial postponed, he is still buying rhinos. PATHETIC but that is Africa.

Todd,

You are off on the alleged dates. It would have been a few years earlier. The Dallas Safari Club (DSC) banned Out of Africa as soon as the news broke about their alleged taking US hunters to pillage the alleged confiscated farms and conservancies in Zimbabwe. If you need to confirm the alleged exact dates, a few hours searching this alleged site will put your mind at rest.

Safari Club International (SCI), on the other hand, allegedly never made one move against Out of Africa, despite their being banned from Zimbabwe and thrown out of PHASA. This was despite all the alleged ethics violation complaints against Out of Africa.

Perhaps the alleged SCI leadership did not want to kill the flow of revenue over something as irrelevant as rank and file members being allegedly fleeced? After all, these were low ranking peons, who were not alleged important leaders, were therefore easily replaceable. A cash cow like Out of Africa? Not so allegedly much.

The only alleged reason Out of Africa was ever banned from SCI is because their alleged smuggling operation got splashed all over the newspapers. Regrettably at this point, SCI's hand was forced to turn against their alleged close friends and associates.

The alleged good news, so I have been told, is that the business entity OoA has been allegedly transferred to Out of Africa's PHs, Tielman and Grys. If Dawie and the alleged vets take the fall, and the alleged PHs get cut loose, then it will be blessed business as usual with SCI. Or, in the alleged happy event, that they all skate, then it will be full tilt boogie business as usual with alleged SCI.

Either way, it will be an alleged win/win for SCI. They can also claim the alleged rhino issue is Out of Africa's personal matter and not SCI's alleged problem. By maintaining this noble stance, SCI can allegedly hold it's head high and proudly claim their alleged right as the world leader in conservation issues, and as always, as alleged First for Hunters.

Matt

If you insert a "coma" after "it was over 2 years" , the facts will read right!

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
IIRC, it was over 2 years AFTER Dawie had been convicted in US Federal Court for felony smuggling of an endangered species( leopard). and as stated Kevin Anderson( SCI Chairman of their "ETHICS" committee) was OoA attorney of record. this whole sorry affair and SCI's handling of it, was what led to my(and many others) withdrawal from SCI.

Interesting.... Dawie was arrested in the USA in 2010... so I guess that means that OOA was at the SCI convention this year??

http://www.huntingreport.com/w...te.cfm?articleid=520

IIRC, OOA was NOT expelled from SCI but allowed to resign! This happened after the LEopard export conviction and Dawies spent a few months in a US prison. Anderson was his atourney.

Alan,

As I mentioned in my post, I may very well be off on my dates. I just can't remember exactly. But I seem to remember seeing OOA at DSC in either 09 or 10.

Google failed to return any exhibitor list for 09 at DSC. The DSC 10 Exhibitor list did pop up and did have an exhibitor named Out of Africa but also referred to being "in Montana Artist Booth". Is it the same company? Don't know.

I would still like to see a copy of the SCI and DSC brochures from the past showing who exhibited and when. Not past post from AR but rather a copy of the event programs showing the actual exhibitors.

But I agree 100% with Mike Smith's comments about keeping the focus on OOA instead of getting distracted by SCI and DSC. Actually, that was the intent of my original post on this subject.

Todd,

According to this post, the news about the Out of Africa hunts on 'war vet' occupied farms was posted on September 9, 2003. Out of Africa was banned from donating or exhibiting at the DSC convention shortly thereafter.

Zimbabwe / Are you part of the Problem?

The artists from Montana that use the same name are a different company, and have no relation to this case. Neither does the book written by Karen Blixen (aka Baroness Karen von Blixen-Finecke, pen name: Isak Dinesen).

The name you need to research is Out of Africa Adventurous Safaris. To avoid further confusion, I will refer to them as Out of Africa/SCI.

SCI is inexorably linked to Out of Africa/SCI because of SCI's alleged failure to protect their membership and their alleged unswerving support of Out of Africa/SCI despite alleged overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Perhaps their motto should be, "Last for Hunters, First for Cash"?

As Nakihunter rightly pointed out, Out of Africa/SCI was never banned from SCI, but were simply allowed to resign. Out of Africa/SCI was prohibited from exhibiting at the Reno show, but the loophole they are presently using is there was no banning order on the local SCI fundraisers.

To their credit, many local SCI chapters had already banned Out of Africa/SCI. However, Out of Africa/SCI continued to donate hunts to the Charlotte, NC chapter as well as the NRA Show, until someone sent their rap sheet to the Charlotte membership and the NRA Board of Directors. Kudos to them for the courage it took to do this.

I also heard Out of Africa/SCI donated a hunt to the Wild Turkey Federation last year. Members of the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation and Quails Unlimited should keep an eye on their exhibitor/donations list, as I was told that some of Out of Africa/SCI's biggest supporters in SCI are pushing them on those unsuspecting organizations.

You should consider giving the DSC a public apology for unintentionally besmirching their reputation. The problem is by spreading this kind of disinformation, you are not only enabling Out of Africa/SCI to continue to sell hunts in the US market, but also providing them with funds to support their alleged rhino poaching campaign.

I want to think that this was not your intention, and that your recollections were merely inaccurate.

quote:

Originally posted by Alan Bunn:
Todd,



You should consider giving the DSC a public apology for unintentionally besmirching their reputation. The problem is by spreading this kind of disinformation, you are not only enabling Out of Africa/SCI to continue to sell hunts in the US market, but also providing them with funds to support their alleged rhino poaching campaign.

Alan, I don't think I've ever said anything this direct to anyone on this forum but you are full of shit. Where do you get off man?

I simply commented on this thread in the first place from a standpoint that it would be beneficial if the leaders of all organizations, SCI, DSC, NAHC, WTF, RMEF, or any other you might want to name, would take steps to keep the bad guys out. And we as hunters and supporters of those organizations, should not call out one organization for allowing the bad guys in and give another organization a pass for allowing the same bad guys to participate, simply because one organization happens to be more popular than the other with this crowd. Let's call them all out if groups like OOA or Safrique are allowed to participate. And more importantly, let's keep the focus on trying to shut down companies such as OOA and Safrique without getting distracted.

And now, for simply suggesting that we hold all hunting organizations to the same standard, you state that I am "not only enabling OOA to sell hunts in the US Market, but am also providing them with funds to support their Rhino Poaching campaign" to continue? Alan, I don't have the words to express the anger or offense I feel in response to that statement of yours! My impulse is to engage in a response that I would not be able to look back on with any dignity. I am going to make an attempt at discretion here and walk away from this one before it gets any uglier. I really have no desire to join you in the mud.

I would like to ask you one question however, if you will allow. For someone who is so adamantly opposed to SCI that you would suggest that SCI should change their motto to "Last for Hunters, First for Cash", why does your signature line say "Life Member SCI"? This really has nothing to do with the issue at hand, but I don't understand. I would think that only organizations you respect, feel are aligned with your interests, and working toward mutual goals would be worthy of your membership. If you are convinced that SCI is supporting companies such as Out of Africa Adventures, why have you not resigned your membership? It seems to me that if you think SCI is supporting OOA/SCI (as you have named them) and you are proclaiming to all readers here that you are a Life Member of SCI, could you not logically conclude that it is YOU that is supporting OOA/SCI's campaign of Rhino Poaching? I mean, SCI is either involved in the poaching or it isn't and you are either supporting SCI or you're not. So which is it?

once you pay for a life membership in anything, you are essentially a member for life if you choose to be. i failed to renew my yearly SCI membership 2 years ago over this lapse of ethics and thus, even if i was a life member, would never claim it to be so. but that's just me. the AoA/SCI saga is a pathetic example of money trumping ethics, but not surprising considering the SCI past president who won the door gunner award( with no reprecussions).

There is no way that we can compare SCI with DSC.

Two perfect examples come to mind.

One is Out of Africa and their shinanigans.

They got booted out of DSC a long time before SCI took action.

In fact, I would say SCI was actively suppor ting them by allowing their boss to be emplyed by Out of Africa.

The other one is Mark Sullivcan and his Hollywood antics regarding hunting.

DSC booted him out many years before SCI did, and only because he refused to stop showing his silly videos.

I don't have dog in this fight, but Todd is a good cat. He believes in what's right. He is a board member in our local SCI chapter and works his tail off. I had a buddy that bought a hunt from a now questionable outfitter. He has yet to receive his trophies. Todd and the local SCI leadership are working to make good.

Please don't smear Todd. He is one of us. The local chapter does great things. He can't control what the central organization does. Also, I must admit it has to be hard competing with DSC in their own backyard. Competing may be the wrong term, as we all work towards the same goal.

In the end, Todd is working for all of us as a volunteer. He wants everything to be as we do, the best and most ethical hunting in Africa. If you doubt that, please just look at his posts.

I agree with you that local chapters do a lot of good.

Our complaints is with the so called "ethics" committee of SCI and the upper management.

They really need to get their acts together, as many of us members are getting rather fed up with their behaviour.