No animal should die "just to shoot something" if it doesn't represent what you are really looking for in a hunt or a trophy. That said, this is a really nice buff to pass up. It will, after all, cost almost as much in airfare to come back next year as it costs in an extra trophy fee to just take this buff and then still go looking for something bigger over the next 48 hours. I admire your strength of will and I hope you discussed this all with your PH ahead of time. Yes, you paid for 10 days work and should get it...but if you didn't hammer all this out with your PH 10 days ago, he might be thinking, "The guy just passed on the biggest buff I am likely to see in 10 safaris so there is really no point". I am not at all saying that he is right to adopt such an attitude, but if he feels like he is just going through the motions anyway, I can get why some (especially younger) PHs might react this way.

JMHO

quote:

How many huckleberries does it take to make a good pie?

around 20 or so from my current count.

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
passed this buff on day 8 of a 10 day hunt, already have a handfull bigger than this one and wanted to hold out for something bigger. PH's attitude has since gone to shit, seems to have lost motivation.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
Man! that is one hell of a buffalo to pass on day 8 of a 10 day safari! I don't have that much will power, no matter what I already had on my trophy room wall!

.................................................................... ...................

quote:

Originally posted by Buzz Charlton:
Wow!!!! If my client turned that down on day 8 of 10 I would have shot him myself- what a beautiful bull!! I can only imagine that that is not Zim?

In all seriousness that is one heck of a buff to turn down on day 1 let alone day 8 but it is your hunt and so long as you are 100% happy to shake your Phs hand if you go away empty handed and say you had a great hunt then so be it!!!! Good luck in the next 2 days!!

I certainly understand 505’s reasons for his decision to not take this buffalo! However the one very good thing about this is that buffalo may still be there when I get there, and if he is and I get my sights on him he won’t be there long! …………………….. Boom! Boom!
........................................................................Nuff said!

I know of a hunter this past May(no names) who basicly told his PH that the first 7 days he was not going to pull the trigger, then the last 2 or 3 days would shoot the first nice bull they came across. He enjoyed tracking and getting up on them and wanted to experience that as much as he could.They passed up bulls in the 40-41" range then on the last day or two he shot and nice bull but was much smaller and he was as happy as if he had killed a world record. The PH's attitude should not have gone sour but I can unterstand his disappointment, having his pic with a bull like that would be great PR.

In most of my posts I tend to side with the client. In this case however I din't think I can blame the PH or trackers for being a little miffed. It apears that he busted his butt to get you in close for a great buff, and you walked away. He is probably wondering where he is going to find a better bull. So much for saying "It's all about the hunt". JMHO

And if on day 9 you would have shot the one you were looking for, all would have been forgotten. That's why they call it hunting, not shopping. Kudos to you knowing what you want and sticking to it. Looks like the PH did his job too and should be proud regardless. Congrats to both of you, minus the shitty attitude.

quote:

Originally posted by DTala:

+1 on the

I hope that is a high quality hook as it is getting chewed pretty badly.......

Not all PHs understand "trophy" hunter, and their willingness to walk away from something the PH might feel is okay. Had one tell me, I have, or feel, an obligation to get you everything on the list. Last year I had a guide in NFland try to get me to shoot a cow moose on several occasions, and got "bent" when I told him, not only would I not shoot a cow, but won't shoot a bull under 40" either. But my money, and my call. Having said that, I am trying to put together a Buff Hunt for this fall, and having not gotten one yet, do believe the one in the picture would be in serious trouble if I saw him up close and personal like that. Put a bullet onto his nose, just below those sticks, and out the back of his head. Should do it..

quote:

Originally posted by Buzz Charlton:
Wow!!!! If my client turned that down on day 8 of 10 I would have shot him myself- what a beautiful bull!!

The client or the bull?

Congratulations on a very successful hunt.
If you set the bar, you have to jump it.
Have fun!

I can actually understand 505G's thinking. In the past I have past up 43" and a 44-45" buff, a 43 1/2 sable and several other really good plains game animals. Why? Because they were standing near the road and I would have had to shoot them over the hood. That is something I would never do. Bell and Sutherland never done it and I won't either.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
I can actually understand 505G's thinking. In the past I have past up 43" and a 44-45" buff, a 43 1/2 sable and several other really good plains game animals. Why? Because they were standing near the road and I would have had to shoot them over the hood. That is something I would never do. Bell and Sutherland never done it and I won't either.

465H&H

I'm not sure but I don't think shooting from a truck had anything to do with his decision to pass, but I know what you mean! The only thing I'll shoot from a truck is a cull or camp meat!

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
I can actually understand 505G's thinking. In the past I have past up 43" and a 44-45" buff, a 43 1/2 sable and several other really good plains game animals. Why? Because they were standing near the road and I would have had to shoot them over the hood. That is something I would never do. Bell and Sutherland never done it and I won't either.

465H&H

Bell would have done it in a second--hell he hunted from a ladder--

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
I'm not sure but I don't think shooting from a truck had anything to do with his decision to pass, but I know what you mean! The only thing I'll shoot from a truck is a cull or camp meat!

465, I fully understand that 505’s choice is based on a tape measure and there is nothing wrong with that, it is just that, that would not be “MY” main motive for passing or taking.

I simply view hunting in a different light but that is not saying anyone else should do as I do!

My opinion is that each hunt is an experience apart from all other hunts. By that I mean one hunt has nothing to do with what I’ve hunted before, or what may already be on my wall. If the animal is mature, and better than average, is likely to be the best I will find on “THIS” hunt, and time is short I’ll take him.

Because of the fact that we have hunted hard, and time is short then he is a proper trophy that I’m almost certainly not going to do better then I see this as a very good hunt! On the other hand I don’t see a shooter and go home empty, I also consider that a good hunt as well.

In over 60 years of hunting big game, I have never carried a tape measure on a hunt and I have taken what some would consider very inferior animals that for one reason or another were considered by me as real trophies, because of the circumstances by which they were taken. For instance I have a 39 inch cape buffalo that that we were unaware of who charged the PH and myself from about 15 yds to our right from heavy cover, while we were stalking a wildebeest requiring two shots from each of us to stop him and he slid right up to our feet before stopping. IMO, that trumps a 48 inch buff from 50 yds!

As long as one doesn’t take immature animals, or shoot from the truck all else is a personal choice!

..............................................................................

Difficult to make a call, hopefully everyone knew from the outset (and when it was booked) that the requirements were for a 48' buff, If I guided a client on a hunt in a wilderness area and he passed up a 46' buff, it would be very difficult to keep my team motivated for the last 2 days, clients prerogative though.

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
I can actually understand 505G's thinking. In the past I have past up 43" and a 44-45" buff, a 43 1/2 sable and several other really good plains game animals. Why? Because they were standing near the road and I would have had to shoot them over the hood. That is something I would never do. Bell and Sutherland never done it and I won't either.

Would it have been unethical to have continued for a mile down the road then walked back and shoot it if it were still there or find its tracks and go after it or purposely spook the animal, allowing it a 10 min. head start
before going after it?

To simply drive away just doesn't make sense.

quote:

As long as one doesn’t take immature animals, or shoot from the truck all else is a personal choice!

This is a pretty good statement...

quote:

Bell would have done it in a second--hell he hunted from a ladder

Was that not PJ Pretorius in the Addo Bushveld? He certainly did that but I have not read Bell in a while.

I was somewhat surprised to read 505's post and there is nothing in it to say what the hunting/stalking had been like over those 8 days or what the particular stalk was like to get in close to the buff he turned down. Again 505 has not said exactly what size buff he was after other than he already has a handful bigger than the one pictured. So did he want one bigger than his best or just bigger than his smallest or somewhere in between? Did the PH know what he wanted?

My experience of trophy hunters, especially the true ones of old who had to slog it out hard on their hunts without all the mod-cons we enjoy in our hunting today, was that they generally took good mature representative heads of the species irrespective of if they already had larger ones from previous hunts or even earlier in the hunt.

Not being a 'trophy' hunter myself I suppose my view is biased but I surely can understand the PH's point of view. Why not just use a chopper to spot the biggest in the hunting area and then go in for the kill. Objective achieved surely?

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
I can actually understand 505G's thinking. In the past I have past up 43" and a 44-45" buff, a 43 1/2 sable and several other really good plains game animals. Why? Because they were standing near the road and I would have had to shoot them over the hood. That is something I would never do. Bell and Sutherland never done it and I won't either.

Would it have been unethical to have continued for a mile down the road then walked back and shoot it if it were still there or find its tracks and go after it or purposely spook the animal, allowing it a 10 min. head start
before going after it?

To simply drive away just doesn't make sense.

fujotupu,

To me when you say ethical it means "for all", maybe that's not true but for me it is. So, no I don't think it is unethical to do as you posted. It is just not the way that I want to take an animal. I prefer to have to work hard for my animals because at the end the harder I work the more they mean to me. Given your example, I would have given it 30 minutes then got on the tracks.

As an example, on my first day ever on an African hunt, we saw a beautiful 43 1/2" sable standing on a termite mound 50 yards from the Cruiser. The PH said "Get out and shoot it, it is huge". I did but couldn't pull the trigger. This was not the way that I had envisioned taking the number one PG species on my list of want to hunt animals. The next year, I was invited to hunt a private unfenced property near Gwai in Zim. On the first day I saw a huge sable and could have shot it but it would have probably been on the neighbors property before it fell creating all sorts of problems. I went back two more years before I finally took that same sable. It is probably my most prized trophy.

465H&H

A solid would take him down. 505Gibbs shoots a big heavy bullet.

Mike

While I know the replies are serious and thoughtful, you all do realize that 505 is having us on?

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
While it is your hunt, the PH only sees his trophy fee not being paid. I've known two PHs with a bad case of trophyfeeitis. It was your choice and your hunt. You made the right decision as the decision was yours.
If he's not performing after this, there is not much of a tip on the last night. No matter what you do, his job is to give 100% to the last minute of light on the last day.
Cal

+1

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
While I know the replies are serious and thoughtful, you all do realize that 505 is having us on?

My thought from the start. I suppose we will soon see a picture of 505 with this buff on the ground and a huge smile on his face.

Maybe Bell (or Pretorius) only used a ladder because he didnt have a 'cruiser. Remember he was not "trophy" hunting, merely coolecting ivory to sell for a living (or in the casevof Pretorius eradicating elephants from the Addo bush).

Fantastic Parks bull! The only question is, on foot, or from the truck?

Well, Gibbs, the last 2 days have passed. Please tell us how it turned out.

Thanks for the reminder Jeff, ya, got my buff right at dark on the last day. He was a little bigger than the one in the picture but wouldn't break 50" so we didn't bother with pics. I'll see if the ph will take a pic of the skull with his phone and send it, as I just left it with him. Thanks for the support guys, maybe I'll get him next time.

Congratulations on the animal you got, Best of Luck on your next hunt getting the 50 incher.

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
...but wouldn't break 50" so we didn't bother with pics.

That attitude .....dick-ish to the point I think you are just trolling. You come on here complaining about your PH altering his behavior because of your theoretically high standards but then apparently sell YOURSELF out by shooting something you clearly think is "substandard" (actually huge) and then you don't even have the decency to take the magnificent animal's picture? Wow....I am starting to understand your PH and his attitude after 8 days. I guess you would also complain about a 98 pound elephant because he is below the magic '100' number or a 42 inch sable or a 30 inch Nyala.....because you really wanted one that was 45 and 31 respectively? I admit that you may not fit this image but you sound a lot like a spoiled kid.....blessed 100 times over and completely unaware. I really hope you don't actually have the attitude you are exhibiting.

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
While I know the replies are serious and thoughtful, you all do realize that 505 is having us on?

Let's hope.so......otherwise my image of hunters just suffered a bit.

quote:

I guess you would also complain about a 98 pound elephant because he is below the magic '100' number or a 42 inch sable or a 30 inch Nyala.....

Tendrams,
you obviously don't know me or you would know that I would never settle for the level of "trophies" you described.

I don't see how you can still type after setting all those hooks...gotta have a sore arm by now.

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:

quote:

I guess you would also complain about a 98 pound elephant because he is below the magic '100' number or a 42 inch sable or a 30 inch Nyala.....

Tendrams,
you obviously don't know me or you would know that I would never settle for the level of "trophies" you described.

465H&H

You don't get a much plump or juicier huckleberry than that.

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:

quote:

I guess you would also complain about a 98 pound elephant because he is below the magic '100' number or a 42 inch sable or a 30 inch Nyala.....

Tendrams,
you obviously don't know me or you would know that I would never settle for the level of "trophies" you described.

465H&H

True, but ... ah ... the tape measure hunter ... hopefully our friend here had fun anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by Jorge400:
You don't get a much plump or juicier huckleberry than that.

+1

505, next time please use barbless hooks.