I've not hunted with him but did meet him a few times whilst he was still living in Phoenix and before he moved to Alabama. He seems to be a decent guy, though a bit odd, but the few guys I do know who have hunted with him have had paid him nothing but stellar compliments. Apparently, he conducts himself, on paid hunts with clients, in a manner nothing like one would expect from simply watching his videos.

I've read enough on here to know that he is a sore subject but I have met the man and he is not a bad guy, I actually like him personally. I hope hope that some of you guys can put the video persona aside and relate any personal experiences you have had with him in an honest fashion.

Anyone else have any experience with Mark or know him or any of his clients personally?

I've know the man personally for a long time. Are you looking to book with him? or do I detect hammertime is about to arrive

Nganga

quote:

Originally posted by Nganga:
I've know the man personally for a long time. Are you looking to book with him? or do I detect hammertime is about to arrive

Nganga

No hammertime Nganga, I know him and like him but have never hunted with him and don't understand the animosity. Just looking for feedback, that's all. I'm thinking of booking a 21 day with him for 2012, he is apparently one helluva cat guy.

I know him as well, I think the controversy is like Kobe Bryant or Tiger Woods, some people just like to dislike certain people. I have sat with him on the golf course, (he's a scratch golfer, was) and talked about this. he's reconciled it in his mind and is OK with it.

Rat-

If you haven't already done, run a search on him here. There was a very long thread not too long ago regarding SCI suspending him before the Reno show. A large, large majority here do not care for his style. I too have met him, albeit only "en passant" many years ago. He was friendly enough but I had already made up my mind I could not ever hunt with him after watching his first two videos. When I asked him about endangering older clients with some of his techniques, I got what I considered to be a non-committal answer. Much concern here over his ethics of allegedly provoking charges and safe to say many wondered why it took SCI so long to act.

Having said all that, there apparently aren't any complaints from those who have hunted with him.

My thoughts....I had one video of his that I bought before I knew anything about him. After watching it and listening to what is said here and other places I had a decidedly unfavorable oppinion about the man's hunting style. Recently I found out a friend of mine had the whole Sulivan collection on TV. I decided to borrow them and watch them all in an effort to have an informed oppinion. I don't pretend to know him or how he acts off camera. So these are my thoughts on what I saw on the videos. Take it or leave it:

He shoots some excellent lion and leopard in his videos. Particularly in the earlier videos in the Rungwa and Moyowosi. I could find no fault in his techniques for lion or leapard hunting or in his methods of follow up.

On elephant clients only shoot a couple in all his videos, so it's hard to have much of an oppinion. Both were shot at farish distances and one was at a quartering away chest shot for the first shot. Most of the elephant hunting I've watched gave much closer shots and were more ideal in presentation. Perhaps the client is at fault if any fault is present. They got both elephant, so what more could you want.

On hippo he certainly has the most exciting manor of hunting I've seen yet. Dry land hippo seems like the ultimate in dangerous game hunting next to elephant. I don't have a problem with people taking hippo in the water, but I must agree with him that it seems a hell of a lot more exciting! I'm not crazy about his style of intentionally provoking a charge from them and passing up mature males at close range until one charges. One thing that really anoyed me was a Selous hunt where he's in the presence of a bull hippo with a client at 20ish yards and stands there kicking dirt at it to provoke it to charge for several minutes until it does. It seemed a bit much. What also seemed like a touch much was when a hippo wouldn't charge at close quarters he would make comments about the animal not having the courage to charge. That definitely rubbed me the wrong way.

Buffalo hunts where good for the most part except for a few. There were a couple hunts where he follows the animal up immediately and has the client keep walking in until a charge was imminent and did in fact happen. Now he claims and somewhat rightly so that his style is better than waiting for animals to stiffen up like many others. He has a point. Unfortunately for his point you could go in immediately like he does and then anchor/kill the animal as soon as a reasonable shot is presented. He goes in immediately, but in some of the videos he chooses to prolong the event by repeatedly walking up on the wounded animal until it finally charges rather than putting it down when he can. He mentions a few times that putting them down would just be killing. I'm not sure I see his point. He seems more interested in getting good footage with a charge than hunting it his self described "the right way". Just my 2 cents though.

The man unquestionably has a serious set of balls on him no doubt! He also is unquestionably a lover of double rifles, cool headed "under fire", and one of the best practical double rifle shots around! He definitely markets himself well and has a flair of sorts. I'm not much on his saying though of let the animal decide. If the animal decided he'd have decided to not have some person chasing him around in the first place! It just doesn't seem like much of a choice when you initiate everything and then give him his only options. Just a thought. The man obviously is a fine hunter and shot. I have no doubt that clients have wonderful hunts. I think he plays things up for video that wouldn't necesarily happen in a regular hunt. He shoots some excellent trophies and I don't blame someone for wanting to hunt with him, but I think I'll pass. I think a lot of the stories and things one hears are heresay and jealousy. Like purposefully wounding animals and such. I really thing that's garbage and he'd no sooner shoot himself in the foot than wound an animal for a video. Would he take advantage of a wounded animal to provoke a charge on video??? Sure. He's done it many times. It seems like in the absence of fact people just make things up or pass along what others made up. With Mark this seems to be in spades!!!

Brett

PS...Did he get kicked out of SCI for valid reasons or personal vendetta??? I don't know. The best answer anyone could seem to come up with was a violation of SCI rules by showing his videos. That may be a fact, but that's weak at best. Very weak! Again just a thought.

quote:

he is apparently one helluva cat guy

I have hunted with Mark as a PH and have known him since he first came to Tanzania. Mark has always been a gentleman.

His hunting technique is what it is and Brett hit the nail on the head.

I don’t think I would say he is “one helluva cat guy” but he does know what he is doing, I am not sure where he operates this year but he has not been in a good cat area. I WOULD DO A LITTLE MORE HOMEWORK, if I was going to book so far ahead I would rather book with someone who has a permanent relationship with a company or the actual company that has the lease on the blocks (TZ specifically)

If I were a client I would not hunt with MS because I would like to shoot my own animals.

Guys - You gotta remember, his videos are all an act! Designed to sell more videos, and put on a persona of his idea of the "legendary African PH". The real Mark Sullivan is a much different cat.

I know Mark quite well, and enjoy his company. Even I agree that some of his stuff is over the top, and I wouldn't do it myself. However, he and I spend lots of time talking about lion hunting of course, and I value his input. I HAVE NEVER BOOKED A CLIENT WITH HIM, SIMPLY BECAUSE OF THE CONTROVERSY SURROUNDING HIM. However, I would personally hunt with Mark anytime.

Cane Rat - No one can tell you what to do, just make the decision you feel is best. However, I do know exactly where he is hunting, and I assure you, he has a good relationship with a couple of block owners. One of the blocks he has been hunting lately is AWESOME for big maned lion, buffalo & elephant. I would hunt it in a heartbeat!!!! If you are insistent on shooting ALL of your own animals by yourself, like I would be, just tell him that and he will do so. If you don't get the answers you like, don't go.

Brett - He was NOT removed from SCI for any law or game violation, so you can take it from there.

quote:

Originally posted by Nganga:
I know him as well, I think the controversy is like Kobe Bryant or Tiger Woods, some people just like to dislike certain people. I have sat with him on the golf course, (he's a scratch golfer, was) and talked about this. he's reconciled it in his mind and is OK with it.

fairgame oughta be worried...you were taking up for him...now you are taking up for MS

No.

Nor have I gone over Niagara Falls in a barrel or slept with Madonna.

Just for the record.

quote:

Originally posted by mcdjph:

quote:

he is apparently one helluva cat guy

I have hunted with Mark as a PH and have known him since he first came to Tanzania. Mark has always been a gentleman.

His hunting technique is what it is and Brett hit the nail on the head.

I don’t think I would say he is “one helluva cat guy” but he does know what he is doing, I am not sure where he operates this year but he has not been in a good cat area. I WOULD DO A LITTLE MORE HOMEWORK, if I was going to book so far ahead I would rather book with someone who has a permanent relationship with a company or the actual company that has the lease on the blocks (TZ specifically)

If I were a client I would not hunt with MS because I would like to shoot my own animals.

Not sure where he's hunting this year either. I do know he was hunting Ngarambe~Tapika and Mbarangandu. IMO: The latter you can get very good maned lion with a bit of patience; the former block has plenty lion numbers, but mane quality, let's just say, leaves something to be desired...typical eastern Selous lion. I have hunted with clients in both blocks a good number of times.

Like M.S. or not, the man does produce very good quality heads of trophies for his clients, including plains game too. (His book includes some plains game examples; something his videos do not).

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Nganga:
I know him as well, I think the controversy is like Kobe Bryant or Tiger Woods, some people just like to dislike certain people. I have sat with him on the golf course, (he's a scratch golfer, was) and talked about this. he's reconciled it in his mind and is OK with it.

fairgame oughta be worried...you were taking up for him...now you are taking up for MS

Ledvm,
I've read and reread this post and it is information only and not any sort of endorsment. The funny thing is I know them both and you know neither. If I started some BS thread about Nigel, you would come unglued most likely, and rightly so, as I have not hunted nor met the man.

Nganga

quote:

Originally posted by TANZ-PH:

quote:

Originally posted by mcdjph:

quote:

he is apparently one helluva cat guy

I have hunted with Mark as a PH and have known him since he first came to Tanzania. Mark has always been a gentleman.

His hunting technique is what it is and Brett hit the nail on the head.

I don’t think I would say he is “one helluva cat guy” but he does know what he is doing, I am not sure where he operates this year but he has not been in a good cat area. I WOULD DO A LITTLE MORE HOMEWORK, if I was going to book so far ahead I would rather book with someone who has a permanent relationship with a company or the actual company that has the lease on the blocks (TZ specifically)

If I were a client I would not hunt with MS because I would like to shoot my own animals.

Not sure where he's hunting this year either. I do know he was hunting Ngarambe~Tapika and Mbarangandu. IMO: The latter you can get very good maned lion with a bit of patience; the former block has plenty lion numbers, but mane quality, let's just say, leaves something to be desired...typical eastern Selous lion. I have hunted with clients in both blocks a good number of times.

Like M.S. or not, the man does produce very good quality heads of trophies for his clients, including plains game too. (His book includes some plains game examples; something his videos do not).

Hey man, I thought you were off the Mozambique??

One block that I know Mark hunts, you and I both would love to do another lion hunt there together, for sure!!

quote:

Ledvm,
I've read and reread this post and it is information only and not any sort of endorsment. The funny thing is I know them both and you know neither. If I started some BS thread about Nigel, you would come unglued most likely, and rightly so, as I have not hunted nor met the man.

Just giving you shit!

I actually have met Mark a time or two and Nigel knows Andrew. I am sure Andrew and I would get on well!!!

But If I was faigame (Andrew)...I still would not want to be represented by the same as of MS.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Ledvm,
I've read and reread this post and it is information only and not any sort of endorsment. The funny thing is I know them both and you know neither. If I started some BS thread about Nigel, you would come unglued most likely, and rightly so, as I have not hunted nor met the man.

Just giving you shit!

I actually have met Mark a time or two and Nigel knows Andrew. I am sure Andrew and I would get on well!!!

But If I was faigame (Andrew)...I still would not want to be represented by the same as of MS.

No worries, the funny thing is I've never hunted with him, I know him from living here in Phoenix my entire life, I may go with him fall 2011 with another BIG double rifle fan here on the forum. I've got two close friends, one lives here as well that have hunted with him and one is featured in his first book.

Nganga

Nganga

I'm in the same boat with a lot of you, if I wanted somebody else to kill an animal for me I'd stay home and have my nephew take a yearling steer to a custom butcher so I don't have to watch.

It does seem that Aaron knows the truth about MS and why he was not at Reno. How about sharing that with us?

Just curious...

Rich
DRSS
Rich

First ask why he is not at DSC

Guys - Why Mark is not, or has not, been at DSC, that question I have never asked him so honestly not sure on that one.

As for SCI, Mark and I talked about that in February. Fact is, NO SPECIFIC REASON WAS EVER GIVEN TO HIM, AT ALL. Now of course we can all speculate, and I'm sure we can all figure it out. Mark knows that some folks have their reasons for not wanting him around, and I'm sure that's likely what it is. But, the man did donate alot over the years, and did support SCI for many years, so in my opinion, he was at least owed the dignity of an official explanation.

Mark has been to DSC in years past.

My wife and I flew from Arusha to Amsterdam a year and a half ago with a quick stop in Nairobi. Mark was on the flight a couple rows ahead and we started talking as we loaded in Arusha and in Nairobi he traded seats with a passenger and sat with us on the flight to Amsterdam.

I showed him pictures of our hunts in South Africa and Tanzania and he was especially interested in the fact my wife hunted and shot a 338/06, naturally he admonished me for not "buying her a double rifle".

I told him about my experience with a 6 month old Heym that busted a firing pin and that would most likely be my 4th and final double. That excited him in a negative way but it was all cordial.

At one point I thanked him for the charge scene in his first video adding it was really inspiring-at the time-and he asked if I had watched any of the others and I said we had putchased a couple others and when I told him that I had purchased a particular one and thought he had gone overboard with the "animal having the opportunity to decide it's own fate" I told him that I thought that was to Disneyesk implying that animals reason rather than act on instinct.

He did not like the Disney association but after we shared thoughts he understood my point but still didn't like the association and we agreed to disagree. I told him that I thought I generally understood what he was trying to do but stated he had gone to far and was actually helping the anti-hunting fraternity in his statements of "now giving the animal the chance to DECIDE it's own fate to fight or run".

I told him that short of a two gun malfunctions the animal would die period. I personally prefer to use a quick follow up to dispatch the animal. Second that fact of his very statements was the fodder anti-hunters use stating this is a PROFESSIONAL HUNTER AND HE SAYS ANIMALS CAN DECIDE ON HOW THEY DIE...

We did have a lllooonnnggg discussion and again agreed to disagree but he did say that he appreciated the discussion and I had put "things" in terms and presented it in a way others-"he disagreed with had not"-so he did not change my mind and I had not changed his but we were cordial and parted with kind words.

I think that if anyone else put themself in his shoes and had realized his success both professionally, economically and personally we too may be a but excentric and opinionated and I guess that's OK cuz he is more the norm than the exception of those who have hunted Africa to the extent they have written books and in this age made video's and have aquired a degree of fame-good or bad-depending on the interpretor. I think there are some who are just plain jealous, some who disagree on ethical grounds and others who fall in a category that is a blend of those and maybe other areas.

He is still a guy who was, seemingly, doing the right thing for the right reason. in late August prime hunting time he was returning to America for family reasons something dealing with his college age daughter. OH YEA, WE DIDN'T AGREE ON FOOTBALL EITHER. 'BANA VS HUSKER HISTORY LOL, I TOLD HIM WE WERE REBUILDING AND WE WERE COMING TO KICK THEIR ASS. Now two years ago things were pretty uncertain for both schools who had just hired coaches, they "ARRIVED FIRST" BUT WE ARE COMING BACK FAST--GO HUSKERS!

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
Brett - He was NOT removed from SCI for any law or game violation, so you can take it from there.

Aaron,

I'm not sure if you are just stating that to "get it out there" or if you thought that's what I was saying. That's not what I was saying if you thought so and I haven't heard anything of the sort either. My understanding from what someone came up with was his videos he was playing broke some rules SCI has in place for vendors at the show. Kind of weak if you ask me for someone who has given so generously to SCI.

Brett

It seems to me that those who have met/hunted with him all have positive things to say and those who haven't get their fluffy little panties in a knot every time his name is mentioned.

If the shit hits the fan, I sure wouldn't mind having him standing next to me with that big .600.

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
Brett - He was NOT removed from SCI for any law or game violation, so you can take it from there.

Aaron,

I'm not sure if you are just stating that to "get it out there" or if you thought that's what I was saying. That's not what I was saying if you thought so and I haven't heard anything of the sort either. My understanding from what someone came up with was his videos he was playing broke some rules SCI has in place for vendors at the show. Kind of weak if you ask me.

Brett

No, that's what I was saying! He was not removed from SCI because of any law or game violation.

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
No.

Nor have I gone over Niagara Falls in a barrel or slept with Madonna.

Just for the record.

Like my martinis, I like my humor best bone dry.

Yet another nice one.

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
No.

Nor have I gone over Niagara Falls in a barrel or slept with Madonna.

Just for the record.

Probably not a lot of difference in the above two.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
Brett - He was NOT removed from SCI for any law or game violation, so you can take it from there.

Aaron,

I'm not sure if you are just stating that to "get it out there" or if you thought that's what I was saying. That's not what I was saying if you thought so and I haven't heard anything of the sort either. My understanding from what someone came up with was his videos he was playing broke some rules SCI has in place for vendors at the show. Kind of weak if you ask me.

Brett

No, that's what I was saying! He was not removed from SCI because of any law or game violation.

I think it's friday and not all my gears are working. I don't mean he broke an actual governmental law or game law. I mean someone had suggested that SCI has a policy about video content aired by vendors at the show. Apparhently some or all of the videos he was showing violated that policy. The policy was rather all encompassing and vague. Regardless it still seems highly weak if true and unlikely ture. Pretty sad treatment for someone who has donated so generously to SCI.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
Brett - He was NOT removed from SCI for any law or game violation, so you can take it from there.

Aaron,

I'm not sure if you are just stating that to "get it out there" or if you thought that's what I was saying. That's not what I was saying if you thought so and I haven't heard anything of the sort either. My understanding from what someone came up with was his videos he was playing broke some rules SCI has in place for vendors at the show. Kind of weak if you ask me.

Brett

No, that's what I was saying! He was not removed from SCI because of any law or game violation.

I think it's friday and not all my gears are working. I don't mean he broke an actual governmental law or game law. I mean someone had suggested that SCI has a policy about video content aired by vendors at the show. Apparhently some or all of the videos he was showing violated that policy. The policy was rather all encompassing and vague. Regardless it still seems highly weak if true and unlikely ture. Pretty sad treatment for someone who has donated so generously to SCI.

Brett

Nganga

OK....
Lets see if any of you care to put your money where your mouth is.

Cal and I were thinking about doing a 600NE buffalo hunt with MS next year. probably 4 guys. I don't have a 600NE but MS said my 500NE or even my "ladies rifle" (.470) would be OK with him. Any takers???? this would absolutely put an end to the MS controversy for good.

takers?

Nganga

quote:

Originally posted by Mike70560:

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
No.

Nor have I gone over Niagara Falls in a barrel or slept with Madonna.

Just for the record.

Probably not a lot of difference in the above two.

There is a huge difference. You could go over Niagara alone. To sleep with Madonna you would have to share the experience with an NBA team.

Somewhat unintentionally, I had a drink with Sullivan at the Sea Cliff in Dar. My intent was to meet several AR members but when I walked outside to the bar area, I saw him and said hello. He graciously asked me to have a seat and I did. He knew who I was after I introduced myself. I found him to be a gentleman (at least in that atmosphere).

I do wonder what the heck happend in the concessions in which he taped the "Death" videos. Folks I trust have told me very unfavorable stories about the aftermath. And this is from PH's who have no need to be jealous of any-dad-gum-body.

All that said, I've talked with at least a dozen folks who have hunted with him. To a man, every one has only had good things to say about Sullivan. One can't discount that.

Would I hunt with the man. No. First of all, he charges a "celebrity" premium which I can't afford. Secondly, I just can't get by the videos or the reports of the despoiled concessions. JMHO as a safari novice.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike70560:

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
No.

Nor have I gone over Niagara Falls in a barrel or slept with Madonna.

Just for the record.

Probably not a lot of difference in the above two.

There is a huge difference. You could go over Niagara alone. To sleep with Madonna you would have to share the experience with an NBA team.

Point well taken, her ex-husband, Guy Ritchie, described the experience as being something akin to "Having sex with a piece of beef jerky".

quote:

Originally posted by John Frederick:
It seems to me that those who have met/hunted with him all have positive things to say and those who haven't get their fluffy little panties in a knot every time his name is mentioned.

If the shit hits the fan, I sure wouldn't mind having him standing next to me with that big .600.

There's shit hitting the fan and then there's picking the shit up and deliberately throwing it into the fan just to see how good it looks on video when it comes flying back at you.

quote:

Originally posted by Nganga:
OK....
Lets see if any of you care to put your money where your mouth is.

Cal and I were thinking about doing a 600NE buffalo hunt with MS next year. probably 4 guys. I don't have a 600NE but MS said my 500NE or even my "ladies rifle" (.470) would be OK with him. Any takers???? this would absolutely put an end to the MS controversy for good.

takers?

Nganga

Ladies rifle??

Damn, now I gotta buy a bigger double.

quote:

Originally posted by Cane Rat:
before he [Mark Sullivan] moved to Alabama.

MS moved to 'Bama and nobody told me! When? Where? Why?

I will concede this does make some sense. Walking up to a wounded buff and "engaging the noble beast in battle and letting him decide how he dies" is much akin to the old redneck ways of launching into some far afield endeavor and saying, "Hey y'all, watch this."

MS, welcome to Alabama.

Yee haw.

Watch this.

quote:

Originally posted by safari-lawyer:

quote:

Originally posted by Cane Rat:
before he [Mark Sullivan] moved to Alabama.

MS moved to 'Bama and nobody told me! When? Where? Why?

I will concede this does make some sense. Walking up to a wounded buff and "engaging the noble beast in battle and letting him decide how he dies." Is much akin to the old redneck ways of launching into some far afield endeavor and saying, "Hey y'all, watch this."

MS, welcome to Alabama.

Yee haw.

Watch this.

I believe he lives on a golf course.

While I'm at it....just a thought. MS is often critisized for taking chances, getting too close, or pushing the envelope with clients in tow. I watched Boddington on elephant and saw Ivan's hunting style with elephants. I see some similarities in these two people, but you don't hear Ivan being constantly admonished (not that I think he should be). I remember an article Craig wrote on Ivan where he referenced that fact that fellow PHs felt his style was a little bold, up close, and asking for it. One could argue that this is Ivan's "style" or Buzz's "style" for that matter that they market to hunters to set themselves apart much like Mark Sulivan has his style to market himself and set apart his "brand". Before I have the whole place in an uproar let me say that I don't think they are the same what so ever. I do however see some similarities and wonder if we're being a bit hypocritical just because MS bashing is de rigueur and Ivan has the Boddington stamp of approval? Just a thought.



Brett

Will,
His specific reason for moving was; he couldn't afford the home of his liking on a golf course here in AZ. but could down there.

Nganga

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:
While I'm at it....just a thought. MS is often critisized for taking chances, getting too close, or pushing the envelope with clients in tow. I watched Boddington on elephant and saw Ivan's hunting style with elephants. I see some similarities in these two people, but you don't hear Ivan being constantly admonished (not that I think he should be). I remember an article Craig wrote on Ivan where he referenced that fact that fellow PHs felt his style was a little bold, up close, and asking for it. One could argue that this is Ivan's "style" or Buzz's "style" for that matter that they market to hunters to set themselves apart much like Mark Sulivan has his style to market himself and set apart his "brand". Before I have the whole place in an uproar let me say that I don't think they are the same what so ever. I do however see some similarities and wonder if we're being a bit hypocritical just because MS bashing is de rigueur and Ivan has the Boddington stamp of approval? Just a thought.

Brett

Brett,
I detect a certian softening on your feelings about MS,has Cal asked you about maybe doing this hunt with us?

Nganga

Any idea what part of the state he settled in?