Is a tuskless elephant foray in your opinion a

...........shoot

...........meat hunt

...........hunt

...........proper hunt.....if so why?

Not a poll.....I would love honest answers

All of the above.. But above all else hunting. You know that thing we all do when we kill an animal for sport, meat, conservation or whatever other reason. We are all together in this deal. Stick together or we lose

From what I've been told, the tuskless are usually more agressive, unless it's a bull in musth. So I would call it a proper hunt.

how exactly are we supposed to vote as there is no box to check??????

A dangerous, challenging and exciting hunt . . . a proper hunt without question.

Maybe the most fun and exciting hunt I have ever done- proper for sure...

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
how exactly are we supposed to vote as there is no box to check??????

This is not a poll

An explanation to your answer would help the thread greatly

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
A dangerous, challenging and exciting hunt . . . a proper hunt without question.

Exactly!

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Herald:
Maybe the most fun and exciting hunt I have ever done- proper for sure...

+1

You have to track a cow herd, catch it, glass for a tuskless, make sure she is without calf, get close enough to kill her, shoot her proper, and get out before another cow kills you or you have to shoot one in self-defense.

Some cow herds are VERY protective.

So long walks, difficult stalks, sometimes challenging shot, and then danger from the herd.

You guys are being sucked in and set up. I wouldn't reply to anything ted thorn asks, he is a TROLL. See his posts in the "A Standard" thread earlier in this forum.

Lionhunter

We disagreed on a topic so you won't comment?

I've been here 10 years personaly know, share camp and hunt with several members.......sir, I'm far from a troll

Seems like a fair question to me . . . if some are going to call into question whether hunting cows is really hunting . . . why not compare elephant cows to buffalo cows. By the way, of all the buffalo I have shot, the one that took the most lead and was the toughest to bring down was the one cow I shot for bait.

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:


You guys are being sucked in and set up. I wouldn't reply to anything ted thorn asks, he is a TROLL. See his posts in the "A Standard" thread earlier in this forum.

You asked the ones with little African experience to move away from that thread

I did for a couple days but visited and read both threads on AR and AH

I stand for hunting....all hunting that is legal

Money spent or not spent nor animal species or "score" or size make a hunt

Hunting is what "YOU" make it and it is very personal
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I just decided we needed to have another discussion


BTW Lionhunter.....read my last post on the thread you mention

I ask a question and mention a new thread needs started

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Seems like a fair question to me . . . if some are going to call into question whether hunting cows is really hunting . . . why not compare elephant cows to buffalo cows. By the way, of all the buffalo I have shot, the one that took the most lead and was the toughest to bring down was the one cow I shot for bait.

Great post!!

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
Is it true that most tuskless female elephants killed are normally pregnant ?

Mike

Some are for sure.

proper hunt, with added risk from the Ele. Tuskless Ele lack the equipment to dig. The stories say they learn to bully other Ele and take the tender, tasty roots away from tuskers.

For me, that irritability and aggressive behavior increases the danger, and enhances the experience.

Lion Hunter: I think you see a troll when you look in the mirror. I do not agree with everything Ted posts here, but he passes the common sense test every time.

You, on the other hand, need to get a life. Maybe you could try renting one first to see if you like it...

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
proper hunt, with added risk from the Ele. Tuskless Ele lack the equipment to dig. The stories say they learn to bully other Ele and take the tender, tasty roots away from tuskers.

For me, that irritability and aggressive behavior increases the danger, and enhances the experience.

Lion Hunter: I think you see a troll when you look in the mirror. I do not agree with everything Ted posts here, but he passes the common sense test every time.

You, on the other hand, need to get a life. Maybe you could try renting one first to see if you like it...

Thank you Rich

Agreed.. Down to earth Midwestern guy. Calling him a troll is laughable.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
how exactly are we supposed to vote as there is no box to check??????

"Not a poll.....I would love honest answers"

I think that is actually a fairly interesting question.

To me one of the points of "trophy" hunting is that it is insuring that you are targeting older mature or post-mature animals. So it is not damaging to the population, and also assures a wise and seasoned animal and a good challenge.

Tuskless is by definition not a trophy animal, but neither is it a young immature animal, and in fact one could argue that targeting tuskless animals is beneficial to the population (at least to a minor extent).

Seems to me that it is a pretty good hunt option. It targets a mature, select group of animals that just doesnt happen to have any souvenirs to take home hanging out of its mouth.

Hunt whatever you wish, and tell it as it is.

We have all sorts of animals here at our house, they come from different parts of the world.

We do shoot some every now and then, and that is what it is.

A shoot!

I don't post a report after I had shot a Scimitar horned oryx that I "hunted" him.

Shooting buffalos unwanted by a farmer is not comparable to hunting buffalos.

And the reason has nothing to do with where the hunt is conducted or how much money it costs.

And for those who seem to have plenty of empty space between their ears.

Hunt whatever you wish. but tell it as it is.

Do not make out to be something else.

I have shot quite a number of tuskless cows, and have always said so.

No different from those who actually travel all the way to hunt tuskless cows - they state it upfront what they are hunting.

Now some are trying to denigrate this sort of hunt to the level of what some unscrupulous so called "PHs" like to lower buffalo hunt to.

We have never gone out of our to hunt tuskless cows, but when they are on quota, and we found one, we shot it.

We have been charged by a number of them, but managed to escape these charges without having to shoot one while charging.


So to answer your questions.

1. It is a SHOOT.

As we do not go out actually hunting them, but when we do find one, we shoot it.

2. It IS a meat hunt, as the meat is utilized fully.

3. It IS a hunt - as that what we do every day we leave our hunting camp.

4. It IS a proper hunt. Conducted by proper professional hunters who have been doing that all their lives.

quote:

why not compare elephant cows to buffalo cows

Because it is similar to comparing apples with oranges.

Other than the events (sometimes hairy) which lead to killing a tuskless cow there is a reason behind their culling.

It is known/said that tuskless cows tend to disseminate their genes and that by reducing their numbers through a culling process, will slow the reproduction/increase of the same.

A buffalo cow on the other hand may also produce a formidable headset (isn't/wasn't) the world record a cow (Uganda?).

For the collector of trophies, a cow shoulder mount with a decent set of handle bars lined up next to a, equally inpressive bull would make for a very interesting comparison.

I would therefore not begrudge a hunter for taking a cow provided she met with the above criteria.

To quote one famous PH: Hunting tuskless cows in the thick jesse of the Zambezi Valley is perhaps the most dangerous hunting on earth.
To quote another: Hunting tuskless eles in the Valley means one shot, then run like hell!
To quote one more: Cow elephant do not have a menopause. If they don't have a dependent calf, nearly all of them are pregnant.
To quote me: It was the scariest hunt I have ever done.

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
Is a tuskless elephant foray in your opinion a

...........shoot

...........meat hunt

...........hunt

...........proper hunt.....if so why?

Not a poll.....I would love honest answers

It is a shoot; with no trophy involved, it is quite simply the "thrill of the kill" and
a few extra bucks for the outfitter.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
A dangerous, challenging and exciting hunt . . . a proper hunt without question.

+1 and emphasizing "dangerous" particularly early season

Fujo:
Thanks much, I was going to ask if their offspring would be tuskless too.
Educational thread, thanks for asking it Ted.
George

I have hunted a few tuskless now. I would say without doubt it's a hunt. It's certainly not a trophy hunt, definitely a meat hunt for the local villagers.i wouldn't call it a shoot at all.

It is some of the hardest and most challenging hunting you will ever do.

You certainly ain't doing it behind wire so you cannot compare to ranched "DG"

It involves a lot of tracking,stalking and trying to get into a herd of ele to pick out and shoot the target animal, then back out before the shtttt hits the fan. Absolutely the epitome of dangerous game hunting, especially up close with a double, usually 10-20m shot distance.

Now that's a proper hunt!!!

Cheers

Nick

Georgeld,
To answer your question, out of the ones that I shot and witnessed the recovery, the ones that were pregnant all had Tusked calves as best as we could determine when examining the tusk sockets.

You do see tuskless cows with tusked calves as well as tuskless calves.
I have never seen a Tusked cow with a tuskless calf though.

Cheers

Nick

Can you keep the hide should you shoot one?

I believe you can if its a tuskless on quota. If it's a ration ele, no.
I stand corrected from the outfitters or PH's if you'd like to chime in on this .

I have never kept any of my ele's as I can't import anything into Oz.

Cheers

Nick

I haven't nor will ever hunt Elephant of any kind

Until just a couple days ago I thought that I was a hunter....

Each time I stepped out of my house with a weapon in hand in pursuit of game I was indeed hunting.

Rabbit....Squirrel....doe deer....doe antelope....cow elk....quail....pheasant or male animals buck,bull or rooster

Even our September rough fish gigging season I consider hunting

I am kiling fish with a hand held 4 prong spear....Its not fishing its hunting

Horns and antlers or tusk all get measured and might mean the world to one hunter but inches of horn, tusk or antlers are not the measure of a good hunt

The male ego....as my wife who has been around hunters her entire 47 years....gets in the way sometimes

She's correct

I attended an SCI benifit one time....I had never in my life been exposed to so many self proclaimed expert hunters of Africa

Bull or cow
Doe or buck
Drake or hen

I have said it before and I stand tall on this

Hunting is what YOU make it

Let's try this one more time:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5JvchsfnmQ

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Let's try this one more time:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5JvchsfnmQ

A perfect example of what your hero Mark Sullivan does

I have shot quite a few tuskless and a few tusked cows.' Is it a hunt? Absolutely .

When I describe the hunt, I call it a tuskless hunt. When I hunt bulls, I call it an elephant hunt. Why? Those are simply my connotations . Others may differ in their opinions . That is fine .

No one is jumping on the hunters on the AH thread. At least not that I saw .

Andrew is entitled to his opinion. Agree with him or not, that is your right .


I can't speak for him. I never met him . I think he objects to the way the hunt was described. There is also the underlying question on just how much of a hunt this really was. By this I mean that, like it or not, some but not all outfitters in the RSA conduct hunts in a less than fair chase manner.

I do agree that it is bad form to jump all over a hunt report. I think it is equally bad form to conduct hunts in a less than fair chase manner then post pictures or even worse videos all over the Internet .

From what I read , Andrew didn't criticize the hunters at all.

Good post Lary

Thank you.

Saeed no where did that guy even once said that those buffalo cows " were not wanted " he said they shot 3 buffalo in 3 days no more no less and that the hunt was in 5000 ha that is 12 000 acres allot of land if it is thick Mopani!

quote:

Originally posted by INTREPID SAFARIS:
Saeed no where did that guy even once said that those buffalo cows " were not wanted " he said they shot 3 buffalo in 3 days no more no less and that the hunt was in 5000 ha that is 12 000 acres allot of land if it is thick Mopani!

You are right, he did not in his first post.

He made it sound as if they were actually hunting buffalo.

But, after Andrew brought this up, it seems they were weekend hunters out to have a good time and shoot what the farmer does not want.


Who would shoot cows unless they are not required any more??

We do this here with our animals, but never call it a "hunt".

quote:

I think he objects to the way the hunt was described.

Exactly Larry.

It is what I keep saying, tell it as it is, and don't make it out what it most certain was not.