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The hunting industry, judging from three recent incidents that came to me, is populated by a bunch of unscrupulous people who are out to take advantage of people. First case, several long phone conversations with a gentleman whose trophies are stuck in Zim, hunted in June 2006. Two years ago. The problem is no acquittal no. from the Reserve Bank. That means the Reserve bank does not see where the forex from the hunt was deposited through the proper channels...but to make matters worse, the PH won't talk to the hunter or answer emails; the agent (not me, but a well known one) has done zilch to help; and now the bureaucracy in Zim is falling apart so it looks like they are going to languish some more. Second case, a gent buying a rifle from me sent a deposit to a PH for a buff hunt in Zim. He found the PH on the internet. In the course of our discussions about the rifle caliber, the buyer stated that his PH told him that 9.3x62 was not legal in Zim. I suggested to the gent that he request a copy of the "PH's" licence. That's the last he heard from the guy, he has disappeared with the deposit. The "PH" was based in South Africa, of course, had no Zim licence (otherwise he would have known the 9.3 is legal), and in any case has probably never seen a buffalo. This same guy rec'd an email solicitation for a Zim buff hunt for $5500 a week ago! Seems like the word has gone out that he's an easy target. Third case, AR member Doug Turnbull, in his recent post, tells how his PH cut Doug's TZ hunt very short due to the PHs's own heart problems, problems he knew he had before he got on the plane. But the biter bit of this story is that the PH was warned by his doctor NOT to go, but he got on the plane anyway and didn't bother to mention his condition to his client. Geez, is this industry worse than the used car business? Come on guys, we need to clean up our act and weed out the bad apples. And clients, watch your step, you might get bitten by a snake. There is no shortage of those in this business, it seems. Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear | ||
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This is very unfortunate Russ. I would like your client to name the person he booked with in SA, so that we can see some justice done. There is a due process to follow, but I can promise you your client will get justice, and the hunting industry will be less one bad apple. Very long time AR member Terry Blaauwkamp, when hunting with me last week, said that the internet is the most dangerous place for both sides of the coin to do business, as PH's can be "burned" just as easily by "unhappy" clients, as clients can get by hunting with conmen...... Let's get some justice then. I am also curious....did the client in the second case not check ref. for the PH concerned? The news is worrying indeed. www.infinito-safaris.com Charl van Rooyen Owner Infinito Travel Group www.infinito-safaris.com charl@infinito-safaris.com Cell: +27 78 444 7661 Tel: +27 13 262 4077 Fax:+27 13 262 3845 Hereford Street 28A Groblersdal 0470 Limpopo R.S.A. "For the Infinite adventure" Plains Game Dangerous Game Bucket List Specialists Wing-Shooting In House Taxidermy Studio In House Dip and Pack Facility In House Shipping Service Non-Hunting Tours and Safaris Flight bookings "I promise every hunter visiting us our personal attention from the moment we meet you, until your trophies hang on your wall. Our all inclusive service chain means you work with one person (me) taking responsibility during the whole process. Affordable and reputable Hunting Safaris is our game! With a our all inclusive door to door service, who else do you want to have fun with?" South Africa Tanzania Uganda | |||
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Yeah, and who is the well-known booking agent who's hiding in the ether? There are charlatans in any line of work or business. Everyone gets burned once or twice. A couple of years ago I had a booking agent tell me with a straight face that Usangu was a great outfit to hunt with. Luckily, Usangu shot itself in the foot during the booking process and I didn't become involved in one of the several horror stories that have circulated about that non-lamented ripoff outfit. But it sure would be nice to know who that agent is who won't support his client... | |||
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But Russ! Not every crook wants to be a politician or a used car salesman (same difference.) They have to diversify!
"Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me!" I do hope he didn't bite without considerable research. Seriously, I believe that there are more scrupulous PHs than otherwise. As a novice myself, I think it pays other novices to join a forum like AR (none better on the 'Net, IMO) and get as much feedback as possible. _________________________ Glenn | |||
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I agree with you. Let`s have the names of all the booking agents and the Ph`s that have such business terms. I also need to trust the PH`s it`s not always easy to get all the referenses that you should have. We can also use the internet to get those people out of business Salesagent Africa hunting | |||
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To tell you the truth this crap is starting to burn me out on hunting in Africa. I just got back from Zim we had a guy in camp who was very innocently describing some of the most unbelievable crap imaginable about his recent hunts in South Africa and Zim. These South African boys in particular need to wake up or the hunters are going to stop coming. | |||
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As a veteran of many african safaris stories like either deserve the names exposed or deleted. If true there is no harm in helping other people keep from getting burned and if untrue someone will take the lead and set us straight but hiding is worse than putting it in a post | |||
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Thanks for posting...as a first time africa hunter last year, I had many concerns about this very thing. I checked lots of references and talked to lots of folks...most were positive about their experiences...a few were not. Not one that had hunted with JJHACK had anything but rave reviews...My friend and I are now of that group..he is one of the most honest and straightforward people I've ever dealt with. I reccomend him higly! | |||
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While my issue isn't Africa, I just got screwed out of $12,000 by a guy in New Zealand that I have known for 6 years. He owes people over $100,000 as a result of failing to pay any service provider. The police are looking for him. | |||
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These stories is why everyone should do their homework before booking. The bad outfitters are few and exist everywhere. It is too bad that these few can give the whole industry a black eye. Good Hunting,  | |||
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I think there is a lot more of this hanky panky going on than meets the eye. Sadly, many people prefer to remain quiet. Even after they have been taken for a ride. Last week I mentioned that some Amerian outfitters do not pay their PH o time. Sometimes taking a very long time, and requiring chasing up, to pay what they should have paid immediately after a hunt. I have received some more complaints, some about the same outfitter, and others about others. Some seem to get clients in a fix by not having their licenses ready as they arrive and so on. Clients should speak up and let us all know those whose behaviour should be either corrected, or they should be avoided. On the other hand, PHs have been burnt by allowing clients to shoot animals they have not paid for, and wen the get home they conveniently forget about sending the money they owe. | |||
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The other issue is that when someone gets cheated by a PH or outfitter and brings it up on the internet they usually get crucified by the outfitters/PH's friends and their claims get labeled as "bitching and crying". Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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The internet is an extremely dangerous place to go, with a scammer lurking in every site. I've been told for years that the best advertisement, and best way to get a positive reult in any purchase is via word of mouth advertising and face to face meetings. When I finally got the opportunity and time to go to Africa, that is exactly the route I took, and it has been a positive experience for two safaris, and the planning for the third. Along the way I've enjoyed SCI and the Houston Safari Club for information and just good stories. This method works. On the other hand, I have friends and acquaintances who have accepted budget hunts and had bad experiences just as described in this thread. Lost/missing trophies, wrong trophy delivered in the US, people running off with the deposits, and discovering that their "budget hunt" really was a budget hunt at a non established site and without a proper PH. There are charlatans in every trade, and they should be rooted out by customers and the good members of the trade. LLS  | |||
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Saeed et al: I, for one, hate all this innuendo, however true it may be. If someone is ripping off clients or a client is ripping off PHs, then their name(s) should be published for all to see. Perhaps a "Hall of Shame" forum should be created? Finally, booking agents who don't pay their PHs on time (or ever) are lowlifes and don't deserve to be in business, the PH sure a hell works for his money, he deserves to be paid in a timely manner. If he isn't, then it is one small step before the booking agent absconds with the clients funds in advance. (BTW, one reason, as mentioned in an earlier thread, I'll take enough funds to pay for any extras in person, AT THE TIME THE HUNT ENDS. I don't want my name associated with someone who isn't paid, even if it isn't in any way my fault.) xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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I agree with you completely. Trouble is those who have been burnt do not wish to go public - yet. And I do respect their views. Some are in the process of trying to get some sort of compensation, may be that is why they are keeping quiet. PHs who are not being paid on time are worried it might affect their business if they went public. The reason I brought this up is that I know some of those mentioned do frequent AR, and I am hoping they might get the message and get their act together. | |||
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I would also like to know who the booking agent was for the Zim outfitter whom had not paid the fees, as well as the outfitter. The booking agent should be called out, and the agent given an opportunity to explain the lack of success in resolving the situation. The outfitter himself should be identified, as a service to any hunters whom had considered using them in the future. There are alot of booking agents to utilize. As hunters what can we expect from booking agents? I have talked to some who feel their job is complete when they book the hunt- they made the sale and they are done. There have been others who will try to carry it through to the very end, and ensure the customers satisfaction. I feel that when hunters utilize the services of an agent to book a hunt,they should receive a reasonable amount of service, post booking. In my opinion, the fee they receive is for doing the due dilligence that hunters are unable or unwilling to do themselves (verifying references, checking properties, confirming licenses, etc.), as well as communicating on behalf of both the client and the outfitter the expectations and commitment both are making. A booking agent should also be there to step in when things go badly, and to mediate disputes. I don't think that there is a good way to resolve disputes between a foreign client and an african safari operator- even for an agent. I suspect alot of the disputes that are remedied are the result of the relationship built between the agent and the operator. I don't think that there is a good way to legally pursue an unscrupulous operator. I may be wrong, but you don't hear many positive outcomes for the hunters when an operator goes south (Usanga for example). I do stand for correction if anyone has heard otherwise. | |||
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Very good point Fjold, I had a HORRIBLE hunt with a Zim PH who has friends here and when I posted his name and the truth about what happened they immediately took his side, without talking to either me or him about what he did. I withdrew the post to avoid a silly pissing match(that no one would win) with his friends who were not there and didn't have a clue as to his behavior. Saeed, This could be part of the reason why hunters won't post their grevences on the internet. Jerry Huffaker State, National and World Champion Taxidermist | |||
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Why do I get the feeling that this may be another self-promotion by the only-one-to-be-trusted booking agent Gould?  Somebody probably sucks. But speak for yourself and don't drag others into it. What is a shit hunt to one guy is bliss to another. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Having made 13 hunts to Africa, it is my opinion that either I am unlucky or naive, or more than " a few bad apples" exist. It seems to me, now, that what I consider to be normal, straightforward business dealings are the exception in Africa. Apart from the Boet Nel issue I posted about- I bought some rifles from a very "reputable" shop in Jo-Burg -one was sold as an original double square bridge magnum action, with a price charged accordingly, and it turned out to be a spliced action. Ok my fault, I should have not believed their representation and taken it to an expert first.. -another rifle was sold as the "finest example of a ______ rifle in South Africa". When I got it home and took the stock off, it was completely rusted out just below the stock line. Someone had tried to repair it but the trigger assembly was so fragile it had to be discarded. Again, my fault (?) for believing this shop. I am waiting now for nearly two years for trophies from a hunt taken with a South African PH in Namibia. The South African PH arranged the hunt through a Namibian PH, who was along the entire hunt. Just a few weeks ago, the Namibia PH says he was not paid enough for a "trophy hunt" and unless I pay $1000 more per kudu etc. he will not release my trophies. Until I contacted the Namibian PH, which was difficult to do as I could not find him, the RSA PH BS'd me time and again saying oh I don't know let me check on it, can't understand what the problem is. The Namibian PH claims he was told the hunt was a management hunt and informed my RSA PH there would be no trophy export from day 1. I had a PH basically BS me about the size of a kudu- before the shot he said it was "really big- shoot it now", then on the ground even I could see it was small. I asked him how big and he said "low 50s". I refused to let him take my photo with the animal. He then stated if I shot another one he would only charge me $800 for this one. (?) and to please allow him to photo me for his records. When I returned home I contacted the landowner who had the "trophy" and was advised it was 47 inches. When confronted for charging me trophy fees on a non trophy kudu, and advising me to shoot an immature animal, the PH claimed : "you stated the first night you didn't care about trophy size" ???? What? Actually, the first night I stated in front of the PH and the landowner, who recalls and backs my version, that I did not want to shoot a kudu no less than 55 inches. So again- my fault, I should have fought the PH in the field and refused to pay $1300 for a non trophy animal. The PH also now claims he never said it was low 50s- he claims when I asked if it was low 50s, he replied "if that" and therefore I accepted the animal as a trophy... Point is I think there are more unscrupulous people in the hunting business than I care to imagine. They tend to play up the buddy-buddy relations, sell the romantic side of the hunt, but pinch you on every opportunity. This same PH told me he had hunted the property he sold me on for three years. I learned from the landowner the first night in camp that this was his first hunt ever on the property. He also told me the area had San trackers and was a really wild "Hemingway" experience. The trackers were Tsawana and spoke Africaans, and it was basically a farm hunt, not a "wild" experience. ANY BS to get a booking I am afraid. This same PH, who posts here and has a booking agent here who regularly promotes him, told me, before a hunt, that he had a new "chef" he was bringing along. It was a blond woman. She was actually a pretty crappy cook. I figured out after a few nights that there was some night visiting going on, and by the end of the hunt, it was basically a sleepover for the PH who was cheating on his living girlfriend with the "chef" who was actually a prostitute - per the PH. It has really turned me off to hunting and I for one am sick and tired of being nickeled and dimed like an ATM from every person I come into contact with in Africa. As to those who say "post the names" etc., I have already been told in writing by the PH in question that no one will believe my version since I have hunted with him many times. I have deleted all my supportive posts and advised thse who contacted me previously for a reference about my issues. One of the people I PM'd wrote to me that he wanted more details, was surprised at my version of events, that he had talked to the PH on the phone and he seemed "reputable" etc. and asked me more questions to verify my version. I responded I am not the PH police, nor am I responsible for him having a good hunt, and insuring that he books with a reputable PH, therefore I was not going to engage in a long running he said- he said saga, which is basically what these complaints turn into, especially if the PH has a couple of other clients and a booking agent on AR. In fairness, there are PHs I have met that have rave reviews on this board, and are regularly recommended that, after meeting them, I would not hunt with. My criteria is if a guy is a BSer, a drinker etc. I will not hunt with him, but some other like this, or overlook it. We are not all the same, we are not all automatically best of friends and life long brothers, therefore, some may like a PH and others may not, based on personality and personal habits. BUT I do draw the line at dishonesty and BS. Clearly, one guy can have what he considers to be one, two or many successful hunts with a particular PH, and another hunter would nit be satisfied, or the other hunter is ripped off and doesn't know it, etc. This accounts for a difference of opinion of PHs, and I think tendency for some not to believe negative reports of their "favorite" PH. So, at this point, when I see PHs or booking agents posting here on AR, my first reaction is you are all full of BS until proven otherwise - overselling and under producing. I will continue to hunt but I am sure I will be a less pleasant, more demanding client than I previously have been. ______________________________ "Are you gonna pull them pistols,...or whistle Dixie??" Josie Wales 1866 | |||
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I am not the guy Russ is talking about but mine is about the same, 2006 Zim safari, trophies stuck at TE, skins ruined, etc etc etc. No help from HHK who I booked the hunt through, they told me I shouldn't of had anything mounted in Zim (I didn't!!!), but I guess a poor response is better than none. My experience with the two booking agents I have had dealing with are the pits. The problem is when you post their names you are treated like dirt from their groupies. My answer has been to deal directly with a reputable outfitter/rancher who owns his own ranch or concession, (NO freelance hunters) and have everthing in writing. Good luck guys, you are going to need it! | |||
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First, this is a GREAT forum, I've learned much from it. My thanks and compliments to the moderators.... I'm new to the "hunting africa" thing, so I would GREATLY! appreciate names, outfits, etc,.. anything to avoid getting burned. I was hoping to hunt dangerous game, specifically Leopard, Lion, CBuff. I don't mind paying for quality, but getting ripped is not on the schedule. After reading these posts, it may just be better to hunt large game in Kodiak, AK. I'm very new to this, but my initial research has yielded many great reviews for Namibia and Botswana, and some horror stories for SA/Zim. I've been told by a lady I met on myspace, whos son is a member of SAPS (South African Police Service) that I should avoid OR Tambo airport at all costs due to theft and luggage breaking. I've read GREAT reviews of the direct flights from Germany to Namibia, not many stories of lost luggage on that,..etc... Is there a "Safari for Dummies" book or website? Thanks | |||
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Hmm...so maybe you guys do suck after all.  About a complaint page, I would think it's a good idea. Another person can post a complaint on behalf of another person as long as they have a certain amount of documentation: name of PH, date of hunt, location, what went wrong, etc. (You'd want all that in case someone wanted to scream defamation or libel.) What I have in mind is a little like the feedback pages that eBay used to have before they went "nice." If the named PH has a beef with the complaint, they are free to post it also. I don't know. Just an idea. _________________________ Glenn | |||
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South Africa's PH's are represented by the Professional Hunters Association of SA (www.professionalhunters.co.za) Tel: +2712 667 2048). I strongly recommend that hunters coming to South Africa ensure that their PH's are members of PHASA. There is a code of conduct they must subscribe to & standards for membership. A good reference for ethial outfitters is the African Hunters Guild. See www.africanhuntersguild.com. Even local South African hunters have occasional problems with crooked game ranchers. We make sure we get references from previous clients & check them. In truth the number of rotters is a small minority - they should be named & run out of business. | |||
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Regarding names: The first case (Zim trophies) involves a hunter who reads and sometimes posts on this forum and a PH who is also well-supported by groupies on this forum. The client will no doubt post the full details (and it now involves a third very well known person in the industry, and that's a story in and of itself) when he decides the time is right. Right now he has been advised that if he does go public, he will have "burned his bridges". In other words, he won't get his trophies if he goes public. So he is giving the people involved one last chance to straighten this out. In the second case, I am waiting for the name and contact info. of the PH from the individual concerned so I can forward that to the SA PH association and I will also publish that here with the guy's permission. He is having some trouble retrieving the email history due to a computer crash. He is not a reader of this forum. The third case - Doug Turnbull's hunt - has already been aired but it's up to Doug to decide whether he wishes to publish the name of the PH....and I am sure he will want to give the guy the chance to come clean as well before he flames the guy. The point I am making here is not, as Will suggests, that you book through me or through any specific agent. The second two incidents did not involve an agent at all. Booking through an agent is not a guarantee either. As an agent, I can tell you that if the PH or Outfitter goes bad or gets a bee under his bonnet, the agent's leverage is limited to dropping the PH which may or may not carry any weight, depending on the circumstances. And his ability to make good is limited to the commission he took on the hunt, which is normally 15% of the daily rates or 10% of the total hunt, depending on who he works for and which country we are talking about. It's also necessary to point out that like a realtor, the agent is paid by the outfitter/PH and is thus the SELLER'S AGENT, not the buyer's agent. In other words, the agent is legally obliged to look after the best interests of the other guy. Whatever he does for the buyer he does based on his own integrity and to enhance his own reputation. Rather, the points I am trying to make are: 1. Check recent references. 2. Just because one or two other hunters had a good hunt with a specific outfitter, does not mean your hunt will be free of problems. 3. Make sure you get stuff in writing (Doug's charter costs, for example). 4. The PH associations need to use more muscle to police their ranks...the first case mentioned has been reported to the Zim PH association and they don't bother to reply. 5. If the deal is too good to be true, it probably is. A safari purchase over the net, esp when the funds are sent overseas, is a con-man's paradise. You pay a lot of money well in advance, you wire it overseas, and then months may pass before you realize you have been taken. I am surprised we don't see more cases like the second case. Regarding myself, I am not perfect either. I was flamed on this site by a guy over a $200 guncase I sold some time ago, which I regret as it was some poor judgement on my part. Selling used guns and accessories is a bit of a minefield...which is why we do take used stuff back no questions asked. This guy chose to keep the guncase in question and flame me anyway. Now regarding Mr. Bill Stuart's comment, and a similar comment he made on another post of mine about a month ago, in which I was accused of "pimping my own hunts". Will, if it's so shameful to post on this forum in one's own financial interest, what's the deal with that little byline you use about sending you $55 for your book. It seems you take the cake for self-promotion here. Or are you perhaps just mad at me because you one of the groupies I refer to in the first para? Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear | |||
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nvhunter, Do not let a thread like this one sour you on hunting Africa. I personally found that outfits like the ones discussed here are the exception rather than the rule. You just really need to do your homework and carefully check out anyone you plan to book with. That goes with anywhere in the world you plan to hunt, I have run into some bad outfits here in the US. But again I believe they are more the exception rather than the rule. Good Hunting, | |||
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Because so many guys thinking about an Africa hunt read this thread, I want to say, as a one time hunter to Africa (and the best hunting experience I ever had(and I'm 78 now and didn't have the advantage of Accurate Reloading when I booked and went to Africa) that it is extremely important to know who you are dealing with in the US -or whatever country you are in and book from. It happens that I had a perfect hunting experience in Africa. That was due to the fact that (by dumb Irish luck) I had a great outfitter and a great guy as a PH. How to do it for the first time hunter to Africa? All I can say is that reading the Accurate Reloading posts is, at least, a starter. For those guys in the US, I would think that visiting the SCI annual show in Reno would be another good way to start. I'm just throwing out suggestions and don't mean to close off any other suggestions. A first hunt in Africa is very important (and not only from a financial standpoint) and as a retired lawyer, I'll tell you the key word is "Research - and then some more research - and then check up on the last research- Fact. It is true (in my opinion anyways) that most outfitters and PHs are totally honest. The problem for the first time Africa hunter is to make sure to avoid the bad apples! | |||
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David Culpepper, Thanks for writing. Yes, it would take more than this thread to sour me to the dream of hunting in Africa. It does serve to reinforce the need to conduct very detailed research prior to any payment. | |||
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You might have been very unlucky. I have been on more safaris than you have, and have never, ever, had any bad experiences Just for the record, I ave only dealt with a few outfitters and PHs. These are Roy and Alan Vincent, with whom I have hunted many times in both Zimbabwe and Tanzania. Ray Atkinson and Pierre van Tonder several times in Tanzania. Peter Harris twice in South Africa. I would recommend all of the above without any reservations. Sometimes reading all the advice one is given here, I think I must had done everything wrong. I never have a contract. I pay all my expenses in advance. On a few occasions I have shot more animals than I have paid for. I made sure the money is wired immediately after my return. Trust should come from both sides. | |||
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NV Hunter, Don't give up on African Dangerous game. There are many reputable companies out there who will give you honest, reliable service. Just to mention a few, there is Vaughn Fulton in Namibia, Johnny DuPloy in Zambia, Miombo Safaris, Luke Samaras and Adam Clements in Tanzania. "There are worse memorials to a life well-lived than a pair of elephant tusks." Robert Ruark | |||
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Just an observation here, and I have never hunted in Africa. A lot of the stuff being described takes place all over the map. Yes, I have a small outfitting business, and I hope that I have been able to meet the expectations my hunters have had, and been able to provide the services that I advertise on my website. Among the things I have noticed, from both sides of the coin are; Clients: 1. Booking hunts with out really checking references or doing any real research into what will be required on their part to participate in such a hunt. 2. Unreasonable expectations as to the size/quality/amount of game available in any given area. Yes, some outfitter may have had a 60 inch Kudu or 50 inch Bull Moose killed in a certain area concession 5 years ago and he was the one that killed it. 3. Failure to check references. 4. Being too excited about going on the hunt, and not listening carefully to what the guide/outfitter/PH is telling you during conversations. 5. Not checking harvest data for the area intended for the hunt. On the guide/outfitter/PH's side of the coin: The main one is being too competetive and booking too many clients and hunting marginal areas. Everyone that is in the business wants to make $$$, that is just a fact of life. It is when the desire to make $$ or greed takes the place of common sense. Under any condition, a guide/outfitter/PH is only going to be able to accommodate just so many hunters, during a season, period. It is when guides/outfitters/Ph's go to over booking hunting areas and end up having to hire younger or inexperienced help, and due to the added pressure in the area, the better trophies get taken earlier and the later clients are setting looking at the also rans. Guided/Outfiited hunts, regardless of where taken, are a major investment for all parties involved. Guides/Outfitters/PH's need to know their limitations as far as the # of clients they can adequately handle, the avaiability of quality game in the area they are hunting, and being honest with their potential clients on what to expect on a hunt. Clients need to curb their enthusiasm until after the pictures are taken and they need to listen carefully to the answers given on all questions they ask. Also they need to do a little research, including places like this forum and they need to ask either on the forum or thru pm's about any experience anyone on here has had with a certain guide/outfitter/PH. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Without specifics this thread is of no use to anyone. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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OTOH, we did get some good information on a few good outfits that some may not be completely familiar with. | |||
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I don't know Mike... I think this ranks right up there with the threads where Russ claims that certain Zim operators not represented by him are losing their areas. Verrrry useful information.  ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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Saeed, regarding hunters not paying for animials, if true I would assume they did not recieve any of their trophies as the PH has control of them until he is paid. If he is owed funds and releases the trophies - well he is just plain stupid. | |||
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Russ, Well, here we go again. The agent that Russ posted about for the Zimbabwe hunt is me. I booked him with Tshabezi Safaris, Dudley Rogers. I will not identify my hunter, he may chime in if he wishes to identify himself. That is his business, and his decision. He has filed a negative hunt report about the situation with Don Causey. You can read about it there in a month or so. Russ, I am sure you will be very disappointed to hear the rest of the story, because it does not follow your title of "we suck" but since you tease the members of AR with "hot juicy gossip" about an agent who posts here, and the name will soon leak out (By PM possibly???) and travel like a plague around AR, (Which is what you wanted) I believe the entire story needs to be told before this gets out of hand. The hunter booked an Elephant hunt through me with Tshabezi Safaris. He shot two Elephant, (one exportable, one non-exportable) and assorted plainsgame (Warthog, Bushbuck, Baboon, Zebra). He told me and Dudley that he had a great hunt. (He even wrote this in the letter to Don Causey). Tshabezi Safaris lost one of the forms that is necessary to export the trophies. This is where the trouble began. Getting permits re-issued in Zim takes a long time. He has run into one issue after another. As for the accusation that I have done nothing??? I have phone bills, emails to the client, emails to Tshabezi, emails to the shipping agent to prove otherwise. As soon as I knew there was a problem, I was involved. To this date I am still involved. I just returned from Argentina yesterday. I was sending emails while I was in Argentina about this problem. It might interest everyone to know that Dudley has offered (In writing) that if the client does not receive his trophies, he will give him another free Elephant hunt. In addition to this, you can see in the reply letters to Don Causey that I have offered to give him a tanned Warthog cape to replace his if they are ruined (I would have offered more, but that is all I have). Dudley has also offered to replace every single cape that is ruined at his cost. It might interst everyone that the offer for a free hunt was made well before he filed a complaint with Don Causey. To be perfectly transparent, the offer for the free capes was made after he filed a report and expressed a concern about the condition of the capes. I suspect that the offer would have been made anyway if necessary. I have done all I am capable of doing. The client has stopped returning emails to me, so, unless I have good news for him, or a substantial update, I do not bother him. I have tried to ease his mind and tell him that they will ship, but it will be a while. This has been met with silence. I have no desire to badmouth the client because, for quite a while now, I have considered this client and his wife as friends of mine. They are genuinely very nice people, and I can not think of a bad thing to say about them. However, they have lost faith that the trophies will ship. They believe everyone is lying to them. I would be frustrated as well. I can not blame him. I would want my tusks too. Now, I will gladly post: 1. The letters from the client to Don Causey (only if he wishes). 2. The reply letter from Dudley to Don Causey and the client 3. And my reply letter to the client and to Don Causey. I have absolutely nothing to hide on this. A huge mistake was made in Zimbabwe and it is taking a long time to sort it out. Nobody abandoned him, and the proof is in the letters and emails. It was an honest mistake and Dudley has bent over backwards to fix it. Going as far as offering a free Elephant hunt to the client if they don't ship. Russ, this is your third attemted attack on me and Tshabezi. Until the first post, I didn't even know who you were. I have never said anything bad about you, I had no reason to, and all I have done is defend bad information about a company that I represent when you claimed that he was going to loose his area. Now, tell me again ... who sucks? | |||
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As I suspected. Now who is it that sucks here? ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Just to be clear, there was never an issue with money being sent from me to Dudley. I transfered all payments to Dudley in a timely manner. The alligations of no money being deposited are in reference to the the banks in Zim. Dudley has paid the fees to the bank. I can't remember the post, but Ganyana wrote something about problems with bank deposits and trophies recently. Someone please help me with the link. | |||
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Maybe this post:
From this thread? ------------------------------- Some Pictures from Namibia Some Pictures from Zimbabwe An Elephant Story | |||
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Well said, Will. | |||
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Who sucks?? Russ Gould ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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