quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
"Do you hate hunters more than you love wildlife?"

For the rabid activist anti-hunter my experience would bare that they would rather have the game gone than hunted......and I have heard those exact words utterred/typed.....

Few greater absurdities am I aware of..............of course this is coming from the same lot that advocates everyone becoming a vegan, no pet ownership, no livestock ownership, no population management of wild animals, no fur, no meat, well you get the idea......

Brett

Brett

Of course HSUS was recently awarded a D for it's poor utilization of funds by an independant charity evaluation organization. SCIF......an A if I remember correctly or some similarly positive mark.

Brett

quote:

"Do you hate hunters more than you love wildlife?"

An excellent question but one which i am not able to answer except for myself. I do not hate hunters at all.

quote:

For the rabid activist anti-hunter my experience would bare that they would rather have the game gone than hunted......and I have heard those exact words utterred/typed.....

I've heard this too, reasoning i cannot fathom.

I have also had hunters tell me it is their right to hunt an animal to the point of extinction.

There are those who have nothing but a personal agenda to fill in all sectors, however there are also those in all sectors who are genuine and want what's best.

quote:

Originally posted by jolouburn:

I have also had hunters tell me it is their right to hunt an animal to the point of extinction.

Do you have any proof of that?

quote:

Originally posted by jolouburn:
I have also had hunters tell me it is their right to hunt an animal to the point of extinction.

I've never heard that even once, but I suppose anything is possible.....

Brett

Even if lion hunting where coming to an end,the guy who started this thread takes pleasure in announcing the bad news.

Frostbit,

Do i really need it?

I have taken many at their word here regarding things anti-hunters say, do, their agendas etc etc.

I'd suggest not being so sensitive. It's been said to me. Do i assume that is the view of all hunters? NO. But everyone is entitled to an opinion on the subject and whilst i don't support their opinion i recognise their right to hold it.

Guys, please...

quote:

Originally posted by jolouburn:

I have also had hunters tell me it is their right to hunt an animal to the point of extinction.

Have never heard that...BUT...have heard many anti-hunting people say: "we would rather see the last lion, elephant, etc. etc. die of starvation rather than ever have one hunter by a human hunter ever again."

And I can produce proof of that!

Ledvm,

I've heard that one myself many a time as i stated before. I need no proof from anyone when it comes to what people will say. Nothing surprises me anymore to be honest!

505gibbs,

Grow up!!

Those who wish to converse with me will and those who don't won't.

quote:

Originally posted by jolouburn:
Frostbit,

Do i really need it?

I have taken many at their word here regarding things anti-hunters say, do, their agendas etc etc.

I'd suggest not being so sensitive. It's been said to me. Do i assume that is the view of all hunters? NO. But everyone is entitled to an opinion on the subject and whilst i don't support their opinion i recognise their right to hold it.

I should have phrased the question differetly. I'll try again.

1) Did you read that somewhere, if so could you post a link?

2) Did a hunter directly say that to you.

3) Did someone tell you they heard someone else who was a hunter say that. If this is the case it's bullshit until proven otherwise. Thus my proof statement.

My example is the Joubets saying there used to be 450,000 Lions in Africa. Never has proof of this been produced yet people much like yourself quote it all the time as fact.

So, what is the source of your hunters hunting animals until extinct statement.

Okay frostbit, try thi one on:

quote:

So charge and or pay 20K + for a Lion hunt while you can.

This was stated, by someone who claims to be a hunter. Tell me and everyone else on here that there are Not outfitters/guides/PH's that are not telling clients/potential clients that if they want to shoot a lion they had better do it now.

You can get as mad as you want to at me, BUT, hunters, as a group are not totally innocent. Not everyopne that has killed a lion or wants to kill a lion belongs to the Accurate Reloading forum or subscribes to the same beliefs or concepts as the people that do.

As for the statements listed, yes I believe that the anti' s would make uch a statement, but I also believe that there are hunters that would/will view things in a similar manner, in that they want to kill a lion, regardless of what is in the best interest of the species, Before hunting lions is stopped.

If I remember correctly William Hornady, the reknowned american Naturalist published an article or articles about the demise of the Bison/Buffalo in America, yet he went to the Yellowstone area and killed 5 of the remaining animals. Luckily. the bison/buffalo made a comeback. There is no Hornady in Africa to help bring about the salvation of the lion, only corrupt poloticians and emotional zealots that want to control other humans, regardless of the outcome for the animals.

quote:

For the rabid activist anti-hunter my experience would bare that they would rather have the game gone than hunted......and I have heard those exact words utterred/typed.....

quote:

I have also had hunters tell me it is their right to hunt an animal to the point of extinction.

quote:

Do you have any proof of that?

quote:

I've never heard that even once, but I suppose anything is possible.....

Brett

quote:

Frostbit,

Do i really need it?

quote:

Have never heard that...BUT...have heard many anti-hunting people say: "we would rather see the last lion, elephant, etc. etc. die of starvation rather than ever have one hunter by a human hunter ever again."

And I can produce proof of that!

J. Lane Easter, DVM
DRSS

quote:

I should have phrased the question differetly. I'll try again.

1) Did you read that somewhere, if so could you post a link?

2) Did a hunter directly say that to you.

3) Did someone tell you they heard someone else who was a hunter say that. If this is the case it's bullshit until proven otherwise. Thus my proof statement.

My example is the Joubets saying there used to be 450,000 Lions in Africa. Never has proof of this been produced yet people much like yourself quote it all the time as fact.

So, what is the source of your hunters hunting animals until extinct statement.

I once heard an anti-hunter say that a hunter and his ph should be fed to the lion he shot

'The man that once did sell the lion's skin while the beast lived, was killed with hunting him'

SHAKESPEARE - Henry V

quote:

I should have phrased the question differetly. I'll try again.

1) Did you read that somewhere, if so could you post a link?

2) Did a hunter directly say that to you.

3) Did someone tell you they heard someone else who was a hunter say that. If this is the case it's bullshit until proven otherwise. Thus my proof statement.

My example is the Joubets saying there used to be 450,000 Lions in Africa. Never has proof of this been produced yet people much like yourself quote it all the time as fact.

So, what is the source of your hunters hunting animals until extinct statement.

Number 1 and 2 would cover it.
Can i source it? Yes probably if i revisited the same forum i used to take part in but honestly im not going to spend possible hours doing so just to satisfy you.

Believe it or not there are hunters out there whos only agenda is being able to hunt and who couldn't care less about the conservation of any species!

People like myself are actually seeking the truth about what is best for the lion and other species. People like me don't go round shouting figures they can't back up. People like me don't ask for proof for every word that is said here just because i don't like it. People like me are capable of rational thought and have the ability to see both sides of the coin despite how they feel emotionally about something.

So are people like me so bad or is it just that you've lumped me into a box with all those other anti-hunters you believe you know the motives and thoughts of?

[/QUOTE]

Believe it or not there are hunters out there whose only agenda is being able to hunt and who couldn't care less about the conservation of any species!

[/QUOTE]

Jo,

This statement is undeniably true - however the percentage of such individuals is so low that it would unlikely impact on matters of conservation as would human encroachment and poaching - (IMO).

quote:

This statement is undeniably true - however the percentage of such individuals is so low that it would unlikely impact on matters of conservation as would human encroachment and poaching - (IMO).

I hope you're right but we don't have those percentages just as we don't have percentages for antis following their own personal agenda either.

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
Guys, please...

Bears or foxes?

Your wit astounds me - not !!

Not siding in with jolouburn here, but can anyone guarantee the number of "Hunters" that are really interested in helping try to save lion hunting versus the number of "Hunters" out there whose only interest is shooting a lion, before hunting lions is stopped????

This is part and parcel of the whole issue, can anyone give accurate numbers as to how many hunter are supporting the work being done to see that lion hunting is not stopped versus the number of "Hunters" that are only interested in killing a lion, be damned what happens in the future.

quote:

Bears or foxes?

perhaps she will post a pic...

Not to distract from the arguing or anything, but this number of 50,000 for leopards makes me extremely skeptical. I seem to recall a similar claim made back in the '80's when CITES was adopted. In fact, there were lots more leopards.

Think about it, leopards are about the most secretive, nocturnal animals there are, and they can live very close to civilization. How would anyone know exactly how many leopards there are?

Maybe it is easier to keep track of how many lions there are in a given area, but on that issue I really do not think that the preservationists (i.e., anti-hunters) do anything near what the hunter-conservationists do to maintain healthy populations.

There will always be arguments, but I think that issue was proven long ago in many different animal species and parts of the world.

quote:

Originally posted by Mad Dog's Son:
That same article says that the wild population of leopards is down to 50,000 worldwide...does that number seem off to anyone else? Could we see leopard hunting go away along with lion hunting?