Guys, I didn't know where to post this question but I thought this would be the most logical place.

I was wondering, has anyone taken a buffalo in Africa with a .338 of any kind? If so, how did it work and what type and weight of bullet did you use?

Dave,

The 338 is not legal for buffalo as far as I know, in any African country.

However, I know a number of individuals who have hunted both buffalo and elephant with it.

Dave,
I've heard of a guy who took two buffalo with a .318 using 250 grain Woodleigh softpoints. They were both frontal chest shots and both were one shot kills. If a .318 using .330 bullets at 2400 fps works, a .338 bullet at something faster should be adequate--if the law allowed.
Hollis

Jim Carmichael, the guy who took over for JOC, used a 338 on buffalo several times. The stories were written up in Outdoor Life many years ago.

The .338 Win Mag is certainly legal to take buffalo with in Namibia...

I took two Central African Savannah buffalo (legally) in CAR in 2007. I used Swift A-frame 225 grain loads.

My father had a good friend that took a 338 to Africa on many trips in the 60's. I do not recall him shooting an elephant but he shot many Buffalo and never did I hear of him thinking it was inadequate. He was a very good shot!
He was one of those guys that had a great deal on confidence in a few rifles he owned and used nothing else.
Personally, I am a 338 fan!

EZ

I think Craig B shot a buff with a 338 at some point in his travels, as I recall from one of his books.

Its legal in South Africa, if you can convince the PH to use it.

But why risk a wounded bull and a nasty followup, you might enjoy it but the animal doesn't.

My PG rifle is a 330 Dakota, but when I've taken buff its always been with a 416 Rigby or 450 Dakota.

My grandfather used a 338WM on two lions, one leopard, 8 +/- buffalo, brown bear, lord derby eland, and a host of other critters on six continents. In fact, it was the largest caliber he ever owned (he shot his elephant with a 458 loaner).

I've heard of several folks taking buff with a 338 en el pasado; it is a hell of a capable round.

quote:

Originally posted by bobgrow:
But why risk a wounded bull and a nasty followup, you might enjoy it but the animal doesn't.

Give me a break!

We've seen them take six 600NE rounds, so I guess anything can wound them. On the other hand, they have been dropped cold with a 300wm. I doubt the buffalo likes any of them.

I know it has been done. But IMHO, it's not a smart move.

When so much can go wrong, why do some of us seem so determined to count so heavily on everything going right?

Not my approach at all.

I have always prepared for the worst, and hoped for the best.

That approach rules out the .338 for Cape buffalo.

OTOH, it's my caliber of choice (along with the .375 H&H) for plains game. Great round for that sort of thing, IMHO.

I have used a .338 on many occasions, in Africa and Alaska. IMHO it is a great caliber for big critters and will turn the lights out on all North American species, and of course most African Plains game especially the big ones, including any feline species....but .375 is the minimal legal caliber in most places and for sure will get the job done. .338 may do it but I prefer to use it or a .300 caliber only on plains game....use the bigger stuff of serious work....338 is surely capable of more than the legal regulations allow in Africa.....

I am confident that a well placed shot with a good quality bullet 225gn or heavier out of a 338 Win Mag would do the job. Personally I would use the 300gn Woodleigh RNSN backed up by the 300gn Woodleigh FMJ at 2400fps. The 338 Win Mag is easily capable of this with a variety of powders without having to load it too hot. I have got comfortable loads that do 2500fps with the 300gn RNSN, (but not with the FMJ due to less powder space), so it is not a hard ask. But I don't believe it has the authority of a 416 or bigger caliber.

As a PH, I believe the 338 to be one of the more underated calibres out there. I have shot numerous buffalo with it, all successfully. The arguments etc never focus on what creates a problem - bullet placement !! As aluded to earlier - we have seen buffalo struggle with a few shots from a 600 NE.....and why?....bullet placement !! Understand the anatomy of your quarry, and do your best to shoot in the right place, PERIOD.

Yes, the 338 is illegal in most countries out here, but if I were your PH, I wouldn't hesitate to let you use it.

Dave,
I ve shot 2 buffs with my 338 lapua and they did a number on the buff, i used 250 grain BTS, from two angles, right shoulder and found it on the other side hangin to the skin, from chest shot, found the bullet in the back thigh.
I think its an outstanding caliber for africa and getting famous.....

For clarification, which countries in Africa is it legal to hunt cape buffalo with a .338 caliber rifle? Regards, AIU

Lets look at this from a different position, the legality, and penalties for disregarding the law.

Speaking from a strictly legal standpoint, the 338 Win Mag, is not LEGAL for cape buffalo in South Africa as someone posted, nor is it legal for Cape buffalo in most countries in Africa. That is not saying it has not been used for that exact purpose, it has.

It is legal for the cats in most countries however. Let’s look at a safari that includes Cape buffalo! To be legal to have the license for the buffalo you must be armed with a legal chambering, or have a firearm to borrow that is legal. Many do shoot their buffalo with a 338 WM and it works well, however is breaking the law something you really want to do, especially in AFRICA?

Let’s say you shoot a cape buffalo with a 338WM, and wound it and it gets into the weeds where it must be followed up. Now you say any rifle can wound a buffalo, and that is true, but what if in the follow-up this buffalo kills someone, and during the investigation it is found out that the PH allowed you to use an illegal rifle for buffalo. The PH is in very dire danger of loosing his license, The Game scout is in trouble as well for also allowing it, and you are in danger of some jail time in an African prison + a very large fine, and loss of your rifle, and maybe your hunting privileges in that country.

With this in mind is it worth the risk taken when it is so easy to abide by the law on the first place! We cuss poachers who are simply trying to feed their families, and spot lighters who shoot deer at night here in the USA, or trespass on private land to hunt, yet we seem to be not so righteous when it hinders what we want to do in someone else’s country.

I personally think the 338 Win Mag and the 340 Wby Mag should be legal minimum for buffalo in all the countries where it is hunted, but I don’t make the laws I simply abide by them.

..................................................

I have used 338WM for plains game. I used Swift A-frame 225gr. It absoloutly flattened a very large eland with a frontal chest shot at about 125 yds. I would not hesitate to use the 338WM if legal where I was hunting buffalo. As stated many times before, its all about bullet placement.

I have heard almost from the beginning of time that "the .375 H&H is the smallest legal cartridge for dangerous game in most African countries". I'm sure that there is a country or countries where this is true, but of the handful of jurisdictions whose regulations I've researched there is no such provision.

Perhaps someone could cite the specific countries which have some kind of minimum caliber "law" or rule, and by whose authority it is in place and enforced? It would be very useful information.

I once bought a .338 WM , Pre-64 model 70 from a guy....Was owned by a wealthy gentleman from Mexico City...He took it on safari back in the early 70s....Said he killed 25 species with it on a prolonged safari...Took 26 shots to do it...That was his story and he was sticking to it!!!

I'd use one for anything!!!

Great caliber!

JW

Stonecreek: That's not even close to the truth nowadays. When you consider dangerous game in Africa, you have to toss two more species in, the croc and hippo. Those are the dangerous seven. I don't think there is a single country in Africa that mandates the .375 as the smallest legal cartridge allowable for dangerous game. Maybe on Cape Buffs, but not a blanket rule for all dangerous game.

Not in Zim, Zam, Tanz, Bots, Moz, Nam, RSA and CAR. If so alot of us here on this board have broken alot of rules! I saw some guy named Boddington once shoot a leopard with a .30-06! Killt it with one shot too! And it was legal.

quote:

Originally posted by 338User:
I am confident that a well placed shot with a good quality bullet 225gn or heavier out of a 338 Win Mag would do the job. Personally I would use the 300gn Woodleigh RNSN backed up by the 300gn Woodleigh FMJ at 2400fps. The 338 Win Mag is easily capable of this with a variety of powders without having to load it too hot. I have got comfortable loads that do 2500fps with the 300gn RNSN, (but not with the FMJ due to less powder space), so it is not a hard ask. But I don't believe it has the authority of a 416 or bigger caliber.

that in my thought. I have woodleigh's in 300 grain .338 in solid and softs and can drive them to about 2400fps--- pretty much the same bullet, same speed and same diameter as a 375. that said I would actually use something bigger.

Dear Dave

Until my last trip to Africa I had not fired a .338

I used the guides rifle which turned out to be a .338.

It was really good and took down all the game in 1 shot except the water buck that I shot through the back bone area.
Which just proves it is not what you use but where you place the shot.

In Aussie I shot every thing with a .22 because it was the only rifle my dad would purchase for me. If I posted what was shot with it I would be run of the web site.

The reason for the story is:

Use the rifle that you can shot best.

A well placed shot in better than a big shot. Also not as expensive when came is lost.

From a first time user a .388 took all game except buff and ele. Shoot once and shoot well.

Regards Mark

Dear Dave

Sorry forgot to answer your question.

Barns x was the normal bullet type used by the PH.
But he could not buy any so the 2nd half of the hunt was swift A frame.

Both worked well like any good bullet should.

As for a load, what ever shots best in your rifle.
Confidence in your shooting is worth more than a few hundred FPS.

Regards Mark

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
I have heard almost from the beginning of time that "the .375 H&H is the smallest legal cartridge for dangerous game in most African countries". I'm sure that there is a country or countries where this is true, but of the handful of jurisdictions whose regulations I've researched there is no such provision.

Perhaps someone could cite the specific countries which have some kind of minimum caliber "law" or rule, and by whose authority it is in place and enforced? It would be very useful information.

Stonecreek we are not talking about DANGEROUS GAME! All game is daangerous in the right conditions. We are discussing the legality of the 338 WM for Cape buffalo, rhino, and elephant. As Karl stated in Namibia it is legal for buffalo, but almost any caliber is legal for almost anything in Namibia.

There a lot of countries where just about anything you wanted to use for anything was legal back from the 1960s rearward, but that is not the case today. Of the big five, only the cats are legal with the 338 WM in most countries, while in some places the 9.3 is minimum for Buffalo, Rhino, and elephant, but in most countries that host most safaris .375 is minimum for buffalo, rhino, and ele. Tanzania, did allow lion with the 338 back a couple of years ago, but now requires at least a .375.

I personally think many of the restrictions on caliber are out of line, and simply do not make sense. SHAKARI (Steve Robinson, A well known PH) can supply you with all rules you can digest, if you doubt they exist. The rules have been posted here many times for the different countries especially the so-called big five! I asure you what the rule was yesterday will not apply today in much of Africa, and in some parts there are not rules at all if you have the money. T.I.A.

I hunt with a 338 more than any other caliber I own. I would not hesitate to use it on anything, as long as it is legal in the country I'm hunting. I think the 338 win mag is one of the very finest calibers ever conceived. It is easy to shoot, and hits very hard. I generally shoot 225 grain bullets, eihter Noslar Partitions or Barnes TSX's.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
I have heard almost from the beginning of time that "the .375 H&H is the smallest legal cartridge for dangerous game in most African countries". I'm sure that there is a country or countries where this is true, but of the handful of jurisdictions whose regulations I've researched there is no such provision.

Perhaps someone could cite the specific countries which have some kind of minimum caliber "law" or rule, and by whose authority it is in place and enforced? It would be very useful information.

Stonecreek we are not talking about DANGEROUS GAME! All game is daangerous in the right conditions. We are discussing the legality of the 338 WM for Cape buffalo, rhino, and elephant. As Karl stated in Namibia it is legal for buffalo, but almost any caliber is legal for almost anything in Namibia.

There a lot of countries where just about anything you wanted to use for anything was legal back from the 1960s rearward, but that is not the case today. Of the big five, only the cats are legal with the 338 WM in most countries, while in some places the 9.3 is minimum for Buffalo, Rhino, and elephant, but in most countries that host most safaris .375 is minimum for buffalo, rhino, and ele. Tanzania, did allow lion with the 338 back a couple of years ago, but now requires at least a .375.

I personally think many of the restrictions on caliber are out of line, and simply do not make sense. SHAKARI (Steve Robinson, A well known PH) can supply you with all rules you can digest, if you doubt they exist. The rules have been posted here many times for the different countries especially the so-called big five! I asure you what the rule was yesterday will not apply today in much of Africa, and in some parts there are not rules at all if you have the money. T.I.A.

quote:

Origially posted by Bwana Moja: Stonecreek: That's not even close to the truth nowadays. When you consider dangerous game in Africa, you have to toss two more species in, the croc and hippo. Those are the dangerous seven. I don't think there is a single country in Africa that mandates the .375 as the smallest legal cartridge allowable for dangerous game. Maybe on Cape Buffs, but not a blanket rule for all dangerous game.

Not in Zim, Zam, Tanz, Bots, Moz, Nam, RSA and CAR. If so alot of us here on this board have broken alot of rules!

These two answers seem to be directly contradictory. Let's limit this discussion to Cape Buffalo. Can anyone cite the country and its regulations that require a minimum of .375 H&H? Enquiring minds want to know.

In regards to the 375 being the legal minimum, I wold suppose that this is in an effort to define the minimum amount of energy one should hunt with? Surely it's not simply to indicate the diameter of the bullet else there are many examples of this that would prove this rule silly.

If it is an attempt to define energy (much as countries apparently do with the K.E. of archery equipment) why would they care how the energy was generated? I.E. the 338 Ultra Mag with a 250 Grain A-Frame technically beats a 375 H&H with a 300 grain A-Frame all the way out. Yet the 338 would be considered illegal? I understand if it falls under the category of 'c'est la Afrique' but I am curious as to the actual intent of this rule.

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
For clarification, which countries in Africa is it legal to hunt cape buffalo with a .338 caliber rifle? Regards, AIU

Thus, in answer to my question - .338 caliber is illegal for buffalo throughout Africa. But, someone said .338 was legal in Namibia. ??? AIU

quote:

Originally posted by Karl S:
The .338 Win Mag is certainly legal to take buffalo with in Namibia...

Karle makes it clear that .338 is legal in Namibia. Is that law posted officially somewhere? This is important to me, because I'd like to use my 338 RUM for just that purpose, as well as PG. Is there an outfitter, I could contact? Regards, AIU

I have never hunted cape buffalo with a .338 Win mag but have used this caliber on several animals including Eland. It does a splended job anchoring the larger animals especially with Swift A Frame bullets in the 225 grn or 275 grn which I used.

I love it - bigger is better is ingrained in the American psyche... except when it comes to cape buffalo!

I've taken a lot of African plains game and leopard with the .338RUM. It shoots flatter than a .375 H&H and I don't notice much difference between it and the .375 in effect on game. I like the 250gr TXS. I've shot four or five eland with it at ranges up 350yds and never had a problem. I do notice a considerable difference in the impact the .338 has vs. the .300 magnums. I don't know if it's the frontal area or additional bullet weight but there is a noticeable difference. I've never tried to shoot a buff with a .338 and probably wouldn't just because there's no good reason to do it. You can wound a buff with any caliber but if you wound one with a big caliber your chances of recovering the buff without anyone getting hurt are better. I've never understood why shooting dangerous game with an undersized caliber has such an appeal to some hunters. If a dangerous animal is wounded you are going to put other people in jeopardy not just yourself. I'd suggest taking the .338 for all your plains game,croc,hippo(brain shot in the water) and leopard. Shoot the big stuff with a .375 or larger. MMP

Ackley Immproved User, I do not know where it is posted correctly, but the law quoted verbatim below, states:

Nature Concervation Ordinance 4 of 1975:
42. Restrictions in regard to firearms and capturing apparatus
(1) No person shall use a revolver, pistol or automatic fire-arm when hunting game or use a fire-arm of which the bullet has an energy at the muzzle of the barrel which is lower than the following when hunting the species of game indicated thereunder:
(a) 5400 joules: buffalo
(b) 2700 joules: eland, kudu, oryx, wildebeest, hartebeest, all species of exotic game
(c) 1350 joules: springbok, duiker
Provided that the cabinet may for the purposes of this subsection by regulation diffrenciate between the caliber of different fire-arms in respect of diffrenet game.

(Please note, these are the only species indicated, and only enery figures are given, no minimum caliber. On the NAPHA website they also add other species, but that is not written in the law. Above is the actual law...)

I can send you a scanned copy of these 2 pages if you want.

Karl, how do joules compare to foot pounds? How many foot pounds is 5400 joules?

3983

I suspect the target was 4000

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:
In regards to the 375 being the legal minimum, I wold suppose that this is in an effort to define the minimum amount of energy one should hunt with? Surely it's not simply to indicate the diameter of the bullet else there are many examples of this that would prove this rule silly.

If it is an attempt to define energy (much as countries apparently do with the K.E. of archery equipment) why would they care how the energy was generated? I.E. the 338 Ultra Mag with a 250 Grain A-Frame technically beats a 375 H&H with a 300 grain A-Frame all the way out. Yet the 338 would be considered illegal? I understand if it falls under the category of 'c'est la Afrique' but I am curious as to the actual intent of this rule.

The above is absolutely the case! Most safari hunters are not up on the actual combinations of componants needed to produce the energy needed to be legal, and in most cases the 375H&H magnum is very close to the minimum needed to be legal, so the generic 375H&H used as a guide by cartridge designation as minimum.

Not much makes real sense in the rules applied to firearms, and hunting in most African countries. Most likley Zimbabwe, and Namibia come closest to having sensible rules.

In my opinion, as far as cartridges are concerned, the 338 WM and the 340 Wby Mag are good candidates for minimum for everything short of Elephant.

As far as Americans being a BIGGER IS BETTER thinking shooters population, I find exactly the opposite! Most of the folks I see wanting to shoot everything with a little 30-06 seems to be an American infliction. Everyone I see quoting Bell's use of the 7mm Mauser to kill elephant as an excuse to shoot buffalo with their 7mm Mauser,or any under power cartridge you can name, are Americans.

My father was simply beside himself when he was told by an outfitter that he couldn't use his J.C. Higins 30-06 to hunt cape buffalo, and his answer was "then I will not hunt them,the 30-06 will kill anything that walks the earth!" He was right of course, but the 30-06 will get anyone on earth killed, in many cases, in the process, as well!

I say use what ever you can LIVE with, if the PH and the game scout allows it, and you are willing to let the PH kill your animals if you choose too small! That will not take skin off my butt! However it may take some off your's

joules to foot pounds

http://www.unitconversion.org/...unds-conversion.html

quote:

Originally posted by Karl S:
Ackley Immproved User, I do not know where it is posted correctly, but the law quoted verbatim below, states:

Nature Concervation Ordinance 4 of 1975:
42. Restrictions in regard to firearms and capturing apparatus
(1) No person shall use a revolver, pistol or automatic fire-arm when hunting game or use a fire-arm of which the bullet has an energy at the muzzle of the barrel which is lower than the following when hunting the species of game indicated thereunder:
(a) 5400 joules: buffalo
(b) 2700 joules: eland, kudu, oryx, wildebeest, hartebeest, all species of exotic game
(c) 1350 joules: springbok, duiker
Provided that the cabinet may for the purposes of this subsection by regulation diffrenciate between the caliber of different fire-arms in respect of diffrenet game.

(Please note, these are the only species indicated, and only enery figures are given, no minimum caliber. On the NAPHA website they also add other species, but that is not written in the law. Above is the actual law...)

I can send you a scanned copy of these 2 pages if you want.

Karl, thanks "two TONs" for that info, I really appreciate it. This is what the minimum "caliber" laws should be like.

Does this law apply only to Namibia, or is it the law for most African countries?

With my 338 RUM I can easily exceed 5000 ft# of muzzle energy, I can even exceed 4000 ft# muzzle energy with my 338-06 AI.

Finally, how big do the buffalo run in Namibia?

Warm regards, AIU