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I just received my March 18,2011 Conservation Force news letter and of course it is full of the lion controversy concerning the lion being listed on the Endangered Species List. It occurred to me that if hunting the African lion was stopped wouldn't the situation be the same for the lion as what has happened in Kenya. Since the cessation of hunting in Kenya are there now lions roaming everywhere or not. The views of the two sides seem to be 1.if we stop hunting lions there will be more lions or 2. if we stop hunting lions there will be fewer lions because the lions will have no value and will be killed as vermin by non trophy hunters. So if we look at Kenya I'll bet that there are fewer lions out side of the parks than before the hunting ban was initiated. If that is the case it seems to me to be a good argument that the same thing will happen in Tanzania and probably anywhere else the lion hunting ban is mandated. I would be interested in the thoughts of the Forum on this issue. MMP | ||
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Come on! Something must be wrong....You are making too much sense.  | |||
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Mufasa - In a nutshell your assertion is 100% correct! In fact, every leading scientist/lion expert that has been helping ledvm, myself, and many others with this upcoming issue, and the Lion Conservation Task Force (LCTF), ALL AGREE! Not only will the ESA listing have a huge negative impact on the longevity of the lion throughout Tanzania/Zambia, etc. It will have a negative impact beyond what most here can imagine, or would even believe, as it pertains to the African Wildlife as a whole. | |||
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Aaron: Thanks for the response but my real point is that maybe your group could use lion census in Kenya to show that the lion population will actually DECLINE rather that increase if the legal hunting of lions is stopped. I strongly believe that the hunting of trophy lions (older) does little or nothing to impact the overall lion population. If lions have no value as game animals then they will be considered vermin and without an economic incentive to protect them they will get hammered. | |||
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mufasa, Your point is well taken...and...we agree. All of the experts agree with you assessment of Kenya. Now we just have to convince USF&W and the executive branch of the U.S. gvt.!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Hypothetically speaking, stopping hunting WILL NOT be the end of lion or other game in the hunting blocks AS LONG AS other form of income can be GARANTEED to finance the conservation and protection activities. some arguments put forward is that even hunting doesn't pay enough for this but is simply slowing down the inevitable process of decline in populations. This "slowing down" is important IMHO tas it buys us more time to figure out what to do and how to do it. "...Them, they were Giants!" J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset | |||
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How bout teaching Birth Control in TAN, Kenya, ZIM, ZAM, BOTS.....etc...... | |||
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+1 That's the real threat and because of it there probably won't be hunting of anything in Africa in another 50 years. | |||
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CR, I fear you underestimate the power of rural Africans to reproduce! The one thing they do really well! | |||
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You're right, it won't take 50 years and continual handouts of food, clothing, and meds by the well-meaning in the first world only aggravates the situation. | |||
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Just check a Project in Chattanooga!! | |||
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True!! BUT, that's a REALLY BIG, "As long As"! How's that worked in Kenya so far?? Who's stepped up, outside the hunting community?? No one! Lately, maybe. But from the inception of the hunting closure, NOPE!!! Bwana, we certainly need help from the outside, no question about it. But hypothetically speaking, if tomorrow TGT pulled out of their blocks, who would protect em?? Another hunting operator doesn't count! | |||
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AS the joke goes "what is the most confusing day in africa....Father's day... NRA LIFE MEMBER DU DIAMOND SPONSOR IN PERPETUITY DALLAS SAFARI CLUB LIFE MEMBER SCI FOUNDATION MEMBER | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Aaron Neilson: " But hypothetically speaking, if tomorrow TGT pulled out of their blocks, who would protect em?? " Aaron: With all the dedicated effort and undisclosed but very significant amounts of financial contributions poured in by TGT, why would you come up with such an "hypothetical"question and why in particular should you mention TGT? | |||
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Aaron, you are right and we agree! But remember most hunting is simply "slowing down" game population decline. Its a "better than nothing situation" for the most part, and not THE only solution. I have stated before that a combined effort by ALL stakeholders is needed to halt game population decline. "...Them, they were Giants!" J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset | |||
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AND "AFFIRMATIVE SHOPPING" Ya don't have to learn 'em nothing on that score.  SUSTAINABLY HUNTING THE BLUE PLANET! "Political language is designed to make lies sound truthful, murder respectable and to give an appearence of solidity to pure wind." Dr J A du Plessis | |||
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