The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Why was Mark Sullivan Banned by DSC and SCIGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I asked this in one of the current MS threads, but thought it might get more attention if posted separately. I am not trying to start another bashing thread, I am truly curious. ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | ||
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 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- “A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition” ― Rudyard Kipling | |||
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LHook7, He sold me some bad brass, so I had him banned. End of story. | |||
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His ego was so large there wasn't enough room for it and other vendors in the convention center. | |||
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In my opinion he was banned because of the Green-Eyed Monster. Nothing more and nothing less. People continually complain about his ego. Who cares about someone's ego? If that really mattered then SCI needs to ban half of its members. People who didn't hunt with him complained about his methods. But those who did said good things and were repeat customers. People didn't like the fact that he made and promoted videos. Some say the same about Craig Bodington. So what? They are making money and not hurting anyone. Did Bell make money off of his books? Corbett? Capstick? Russel Annabel? And what about John Wootters, Bill Jordan, Rick Jameson, etc., etc.....? They all promoted themselves in various ways to sell what they wrote. People buy Sullivan's videos for entertainment and they sell well because they are entertaining. Other outfitters and professional hunters condemn him. They may not have liked his methods but he was a great success at what he did. And, when it comes to professional hunters, Mark Sullivan wasn't the only one guilty of braggadocio. Green-Eyed Monster. Nothing more and nothing less. | |||
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Because SCI and DSC discovered that Mark Sullivan is actually AR member, shootaway. | |||
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He's a gay, alien, what more reason do you need? Haven't you been paying a damn bit of attention to what is being said on here Lee. There are even rumors circulating that he has 666 tattooed on his left butt cheek, unconfirmed of course. Get with the program Lee. Mike | |||
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MS had enough SCI seniority to get an end aisle booth at the show every year. He always had at least one TV showing his latest DVD playing full time. No matter how you feel about MS or his videos, they are "attention getters" and "show stoppers", and that was the problem. Other vendors near his booth complained loud and long about the crowds who would stop in the aisles to watch and discuss the videos. The crowds often were so large that they would back-up IFO adjoining booths and completely halt foot traffic in all four directions. SCI repeatedly asked MS to turn off the TVs or point them in a different direction (?). Apparently he was the only vendor asked to stop showing his videos and he refused. This went on for years without resolution. Finally SCI banned him. Don't know if this is factual but it is what I was told by some SCI officials at the time, and I had some standing to get an answer. It has aways seemed wrong to me that MS paid for his booth and membership and had been an SCI supporter for many years, and yet he was singled out and banned for doing nothing different than what a large percentage of other vendors at the show have done and continue to do, year after year. I believe MS filed an appeal to his ban, as proscribed in the by-laws, but apparently he was unsuccessful. I avoid posting in the MS threads because I feel they are dictated by emotion rather than fact. I have spoken with MS, at an SCI show many years ago. I found him to be cordial and polite and somewhat subdued - not the guy in the videos. I asked why he took older and physically challenged hunters into such close proximity of down, wounded animals and specifically mentioned the Hippo charge from one of his first videos. He did not take offense and his answer, which I will not characterize, as it was a long time ago and I wouldn't want to misrepresent what he said. The answer seemed reasonable to me at the time. I have also had occasion to share a lunch table with some of MS former clients back in those days. I can say they were all vehemently enthused about hunting with him and said they would not hesitate to do so again. I did make it clear that I could never imagine myself hunting with him, due to the theatrics involved in his videos. "Letting the animal choose how it wants to die" is just silly shit and has no place in hunting, IMO. I do believe MS is a talented hunter/PH and was told many years ago that the money he makes from video sales of his tapes and DVDs far exceed his income as a PH and has made him a wealthy man. I believe that to be a fact. I also hope SCI allows him to return someday, as it seems the fair thing to do. Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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Amazing how EVERYBODY who has actually HUNTED or MET Mark Sullivan has a 180degree different opinion from those who hate him. To dislike his modus operandi is one thing, but to outright lie (like the 22 issue) is beyond reprehensible.. USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Mike, that was an excellent post demonstrating tact, character, accuracy, and fairness. I simply don't understand why some guys act like schoolyard bullies with slanderous insults at the mere suggestion of Mark's name. It is understandable to disagree and debate the issues surrounding Mark, as he is, by his own admission, controversial. Personally, I'll listen to, debate with, and respect the difference of opinion of anyone who refrains from childish insults that are known to be false. When the wild accusations begin, it reminds me of Shootaway and his shotgun targets, or bullet tests conducted with a hammer; emotional drivel easily recognizable for what it is. What is the thing most likely to cause grown men of accomplishment to resort to name calling and false accusations? In a word, Jealousy! Greed, not so much, but Jealousy and Envy are strong emotions to overcome. For some reason, this Mark Sullivan obsession by certain individuals really fascinates me. I couldn't put my finger on what the driving force behind it is, considering the position held by the obsessor. Then it hit me. Jealousy, pure and simple. No, not jealousy of the hunts themselves, not even the money generated by the DVDs and fully booked safari schedule. Rather, jealousy of recognition. Just for grins, let's put it to the test! Next time the DSC, SCI, SHOT, or even run of the mill bubba type white tail deer hunting expo shows come to town, try this little experiment. Stop and say hello to 20 guys walking the isle. You know, just a random sampling of Joe-the-Hunter guys. Ask them if they've ever heard of Mark Sullivan (pro or con doesn't matter, just an acknowledgement of knowing the name). Then ask them if they've ever heard of "The Accurate Reloading Web Forum"! Bingo!! You'll get your answer right there! I'm convinced of it now more than ever! | |||
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A personal friend of mine sent me the following PM. I know Mark very well, we are friends. He told me, when he marched intothe executive committee meeting to demand an answer as to why he was banned. The answer they gave him was; "We are a club" we need no reason, and will furnish you no reason why you have been banned. End of meeting. Edit: My friend gave me permission to post this otherwise I would not have done so. ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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 ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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I heard he killed Kennedy. ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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You guys are amazing. You have it all wrong. MS is Obama in disguise. He is trying to get the goods on the right wing gun owners.  Todd: +1. The absurdity of the comments on MS never cease to amaze me. I am not pro - Sullivan. I am pro- truth. Some of the comments are so ridiculous they are embarrassing. | |||
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Glad to read that many choose truth over zeal and fervor when it comes to Mark Sullivan. Me? I like Mark Sullivan - a guy with whom I've spoken a number of times as well as his wife with whom I've also had the pleasure of a few conversations. Both are enthusiastic in their desire to Listen to MY hunting adventures and more than humble when Ive asked about Mark about his. I like his videos - I watch and enjoy them all. NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
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This  DRSS | |||
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Anyone who knows SCI well can tell you that Mark's ego isn't even in the same league as the best at SCI I have no idea of why he was banned but find it interesting that the same year Mark was banned, another famous industry personality began showing his charging animal movies. Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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Paul: Good point on Mark and I second it. Mark is one of the few PHs I've met who wants to listen to your experiences. Most only do so with the hope of gaining a client. In Tanzania in 2006 I met Mark and struck up a conversation on double rifles. I had a Lang .450 no2 (very close to Mark's Lang in the same caliber) and a .450-400 Harrison and Hussey boxlock ejector. I was on a full bag hunt with another PH and Mark took the time to get to know me a bit and went to my room to look at my doubles. He also made a short video on my camcorder for my girlfriend (who would dump me in a minute for a date with Mark) that scored me lots of points upon my return. I can't find fault with the guy. How about you, myself, and maybe one or two more sharing a camp with Mark in a year or two? I would be honored to do so. Cheers, mate. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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"... I have never tried or wanted to be a disruptive influence..." From his own mouth. The REAL reason both SCI and DSC banned him. DSC saw this years ago, and kicked him out. SCI apparently has asked him to tone down his silly antics. He refused. They kicked him out. | |||
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I have spoken with him at length and there are board members who hate him for no reason. They took his large donation for their new headquarters. They banned him, and other vendors had his signs and were selling his videos. MJ, he was not old enough to have shot Kennedy. But he lives in Will's backyard. Mike  | |||
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I missed that. Care to share his name please? | |||
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Here's a hint: Have a look at SCI convention rules and you will see there are clauses for the content of graphic displays on exhibitors booths. The complaints were the same complaints that many people here have about the videos... A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Cal, Sounds like a great plan. Paul NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
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Not to steal the thread, but John Wootters is an a league of his own when it comes to being principled; he never endorsed a product for money and always refused to do so. | |||
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Damn it, Cal, see what you've done?! You know better than to interject fact, reason & statistics into an AR discussion about MS! Your statistical thread has awoken the beast on here & is repeatedly upsetting the benevolent one! The worker ants are becoming a bit rebellious on here as of late & failing to fall in step! Dearest hello, Cal from your all your good buddies Nganga, MS, and Scotty.  | |||
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now that's funny- and possibly true. except i think MS is a great deal smarter... he would never hunt leopard with dogs and a scoped .300 Win Mag as the ideal weapon. Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… | |||
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Scotty: I copied the photo and will enlarge and frame it. Thanks, mate. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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the truth... A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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BULLSHIT. That is enuendo and heresay. The truth is what others have posted here as FACT. I tell you what, I'll ask some folks I know at DSC and post what I find out. USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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If anybody's interested, and has time to kill, here's the post on AR from Dec-2009 prior to the 2010 SCI show: http://forums.accuratereloadin...411043/m/9491002321/ As I recall, there was quite a bit of support for Mark Sullivan, and against SCI. | |||
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I avoid MS threads like the plague but since a few guys are actually thinking and making posts that are not just mindless ranting on the topic, I'll pitch in my 2 cents. I too suspect that a lot of the negative shrieking is motivated by some variety of envy. However, the actions and attitude described above shouldn't be discounted. Being a hunter is central to my self identity. It is central to my wife's self identity. It looks like it will be part of my daughters' identities as well. The silliness chafes at a very sensitive spot for a lot of hunters. Some will ignore the threads and AR, others will lash out. Dean ...I say that hunters go into Paradise when they die, and live in this world more joyfully than any other men. -Edward, Duke of York | |||
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yes, a good quote from that old thread.
A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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For anyone who is actually interested... here is SCI's AV display rules and standards for the Convention. They are quite restrictive. SCI AV DISPLAY A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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If anyone is actually interested in the truth, MS is only banned from the conventions not the clubs. The reason is simple. Each respective organisation had many complaints from convention exhibitors that MS was getting business whilst simply walking the floor of the convention. Bowing to commercial pressure only, he was banned from the conventions. This is very different from the MS haters supposedly informed position that he has been "thrown out" of SCI and DSC. | |||
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As this is one of the recent topics which mentions MS, and has not been moved overnight elsewhere, I will post what I have written in the moved topics, which are now in the "Miscellaneous" part of the "Other Topics" section: So why did this topic (and other related topics over Mark Sullivan) get moved secretly, during the night, from the "African Big Game Hunting" section, into the "Other Topics: Miscellaneous Topics" section? I have been quite saddened that these threads had degenerated into what can only be described as internet bullying. I realize that censorship is not ideal, but felt that at times, those in charge were actually fueling the fire. AR members will wonder where these topics went, if they didn't already have them in their Favourites Folder. Dear Saeed and Moderators, we would value your input please. Peter I believe this type of action is what is leading to the loss of the best contributors on AR, a real shame. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- “A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition” ― Rudyard Kipling | |||
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Saeed has replied in the "AR losing the best contributors" thread; thanks Saeed. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- “A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition” ― Rudyard Kipling | |||
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The sound of silence is deafening. Yet another MS myth put to rest. | |||
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I'm sure SCI & DSC have a differing version of events. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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...I knew it! Antlers Double Rifle Shooters Society Heym 450/400 3" | |||
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