Larry, hunting with Gerard was as good as it gets. I've stayed at Gerard's farm several times and back in 2003 we got some of his big buff heads out of the barn and he took some pics of me sitting amongst them. What a sight!

Dahav said it all, Maisailand when it rains, and the bulls come out of Tarangire Park, where they have time and the gene pool to be monsters..Ive seen huge bulls in the Mayowasi and the concession next to it..Any of these concessions give a 2 year rest grow big bulls it seems.

The largest Ive killed was in the Selous, and its 48" and massive with bosses that shine like marble, his tail was gone, scared shoulders and hips from a Lion attack, and he had a ball of grissle with a expanded Swift 375 soft under his off side shoulder skin, his lungs were twisted into what looked like one lung and you could trase the bullet path..He was a warrior and he is one of two buffalo Ive had mounted..

There are still big buffalo in the 50s, like there are big 40" mule deer and 400 elk, and so its always been, but they have never been easy to come by, if your blessed and live to be a 100 you might see one..

I expect a 40 to 43 if Im really lucky in the Selous, 38" is do-able..BUT has anyone on the internet ever considered the difference in a 38 and a 40 is 1" on each horn!! the difference in a 40 and 42 is likewise..A 38 inch buffalo with a proper boss is a trophy to be proud of, the rest is BS...I had one 38" bull at SCI at my table and folks said, "man that's a monster, what he go 44 or 45 inches!!...I said "Hmm, something like that" two of them posted here!

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Dahav said it all, Maisailand when it rains, and the bulls come out of Tarangire Park, where they have time and the gene pool to be monsters..Ive seen huge bulls in the Mayowasi and the concession next to it..Any of these concessions give a 2 year rest grow big bulls it seems.

The largest Ive killed was in the Selous, and its 48" and massive with bosses that shine like marble, his tail was gone, scared shoulders and hips from a Lion attack, and he had a ball of grissle with a expanded Swift 375 soft under his off side shoulder skin, his lungs were twisted into what looked like one lung and you could trase the bullet path..He was a warrior and he is one of two buffalo Ive had mounted..

There are still big buffalo in the 50s, like there are big 40" mule deer and 400 elk, and so its always been, but they have never been easy to come by, if your blessed and live to be a 100 you might see one..

I expect a 40 to 43 if Im really lucky in the Selous, 38" is do-able..BUT has anyone on the internet ever considered the difference in a 38 and a 40 is 1" on each horn!! the difference in a 40 and 42 is likewise..A 38 inch buffalo with a proper boss is a trophy to be proud of, the rest is BS...I had one 38" bull at SCI at my table and folks said, "man that's a monster, what he go 44 or 45 inches!!...I said "Hmm, something like that" two of them posted here!

If you go with TGT in Moyowosi GR or Maswa GR you've got a chance for over 42" but you've got to turn some bulls down and don't get itchy with the trigger finger. Also, Maswa North GR can be good as well, same plan with holding off. When he had them, Robin took some super buffalo from Moyowosi-Kigosi-Ngingwe GRs every year, of course, he had all of the Moyowosi then and the Reserves had not been sub-divided yet.

Burigi/Biharamulo GRs used to be very good but I think these areas have had trouble with refugees, cattle, etc. And the area up next to Rwanda Akgera NP- Ibanda/Rumanykia GR was good but same problems.

Hunting in Rwanda at least for big buffalo, not for Hutus or Tutsis, was very good in the 80s so those genetics carried over into TZs boarding, semi-protected areas as stated above.

Recently, one of Pasanisi's ex PHs told me that they would see and sometimes shoot really big bulls in their part of the South Selous every year
but who knows whats going to happen there?

quote:

Originally posted by Dahav:
Burigi/Biharamulo GRs used to be very good but I think these areas have had trouble with refugees, cattle, etc. And the area up next to Rwanda Akgera NP- Ibanda/Rumanykia GR was good but same problems.

Hunting in Rwanda at least for big buffalo, not for Hutus or Tutsis, was very good in the 80s so those genetics carried over into TZs boarding, semi-protected areas as stated above.

An acquaintance has a farm on the Rwanda side of the Kimisi Game Reserve. As recently as ten years ago (I haven't communicated with him in awhile) he would see high 40's buff that came out of the river/swamps to raid his fields, every year. Unfortunately, as a private citizen he can't own a firearm. He said, the game rangers also don't have firearms. Occasionally the military will come by and shoot at buff, killing or wounding one, and that will keep them in Tanzania for a couple weeks.

Also talked to a PH that hunted the Tanzania side maybe five years ago. He said there is still an occasional giant buff, but the herd numbers are way down from where they were before the Rwanda genocide/diaspora. If I remember correct, he said if you are willing to hunt hard for two weeks there was a good chance to get a 44 or larger. His statement could have been salesmanship, but I was not a prospective client, so there was no reason to exaggerate.

Basically, I am hearing the same things you are.

quote:

Originally posted by AilsaWheels:

quote:

Originally posted by Dahav:
Burigi/Biharamulo GRs used to be very good but I think these areas have had trouble with refugees, cattle, etc. And the area up next to Rwanda Akgera NP- Ibanda/Rumanykia GR was good but same problems.

Hunting in Rwanda at least for big buffalo, not for Hutus or Tutsis, was very good in the 80s so those genetics carried over into TZs boarding, semi-protected areas as stated above.

An acquaintance has a farm on the Rwanda side of the Kimisi Game Reserve. As recently as ten years ago (I haven't communicated with him in awhile) he would see high 40's buff that came out of the river/swamps to raid his fields, every year. Unfortunately, as a private citizen he can't own a firearm. He said, the game rangers also don't have firearms. Occasionally the military will come by and shoot at buff, killing or wounding one, and that will keep them in Tanzania for a couple weeks.

Also talked to a PH that hunted the Tanzania side maybe five years ago. He said there is still an occasional giant buff, but the herd numbers are way down from where they were before the Rwanda genocide/diaspora. If I remember correct, he said if you are willing to hunt hard for two weeks there was a good chance to get a 44 or larger. His statement could have been salesmanship, but I was not a prospective client, so there was no reason to exaggerate.

Basically, I am hearing the same things you are.

Yes the Kimisi GR- held and hunted by the Mulla family of Usangu Safaris fame. I'm sure they operate year round anti-poaching there?

Was that fame or infamy ?

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Was that fame or infamy ?

Ha!

I know you know the answer to that question. Anti poaching would be a challenge to the Mullas- they'd have to take turns arresting each other!

quote:

Originally posted by Dahav:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Was that fame or infamy ?

Ha!

I know you know the answer to that question. Anti poaching would be a challenge to the Mullas- they'd have to take turns arresting each other!

Naughty !!

This is an interesting thread because what is being discussed has been my concern for the greater part of my working life. The inheritance of horn/trophy size has been well researched. It is known as a 'quantitative additive state' and it is pretty simple to understand. Mate a 50 inch spread bull to a 30 inch spread cow and there will be a 70 % chance that the resulting offspring, when sexually mature will have a 40 inch spread. (50 + 30 = 80 divide by 2 = 40) There will also be a 15% chance that the spread will be bigger than the average and a similar percentage chance that it will be less than the average. In southern Africa, (south of the Zambezi) in areas which receive up to 650 to 700 mm of annual rainfall Southern or Cape Buffalo become sexually mature in their 5 th year (this is when they attain ⅔'s of their genetically determined mature body weight) Bulls need to fight for social dominance and consequently breeding favors. Soft bossed bulls cannot fight successfully so even though they are sexually mature and theoretically can sire a calf, a soft bossed bull needs to be patient and wait for his boss to harden. This process accelerates during his 7 th year. This is when his horns are at their widest and his tips are longest. Knowing they need to fight for breeding rights such bulls start to vigorously horn rub - they fight and horn small trees and bushes and the reason they do this is to strengthen the neck and shoulder muscles in preparation for the sometimes violent push and shove head butting clashes which will in a year or so take place. Unfortunately the consequence of horn rubbing is that the tips quite quickly wear down. So from the perspective of the SCI scoring system such a bull now starts to score less and ever less - and he has yet to sire a calf and pass his genes on! So it is not in the least surprising to me that the trophy quality on many areas where buffalo are sport hunted, has dropped. One does not have to be a genius to understand why. All the wide-spreading genes have been shot out before they were passed on, just so a name can get into a record book! Look closely at the highest scoring bulls in the SCI record book and you will see that all but one had never even experienced a wet dream before receiving a supersonic surprise!
For the past four years I've been living in the Kruger National Park which before the recent drought die offs had 47 000 buffalo. There is an accurate method to age buffalo by measuring the crown height of the two first molar teeth from the lower jaw. (and I have been getting the jaws from all the lion-killed buffalo bulls in this area and I've measured most of the jaws from the sport hunted buffalo near here as well) When measured (4 places for each tooth) added (8 measurements) and then averaged and plotted on a graph, the buffalo's age in years can be pretty accurately determined. I have done literally 100's of such measurements now. When an age is known it can then be correlated to other easily visible signs like degree of boss hardness, the state of the horn tips, the degree of muscling of the neck and shoulder muscles, the condition of the ears, etc etc. Most of the KNP buffalo calve during the second half of the rainy season which tells us when a bulls birthday period is - so when I put all this information together I'm confident that I can age a live buffalo to within a couple of months. During the calving/breeding season (buffalo have an 11 month gestation period so they occur at roughly the same time) I spend every free moment I have observing the breeding herds to see what age bulls do what. The prime breeders are the 9 to 11 yr old bulls - bulls with horn tips worn down to boss level. Over three decades of observing buffalo with a passion I have never seen a 7 year old bull successfully serve a cow. Sure they try but seldom get it right and I have photos to prove this.
For the past 4 years I have been conducting a research project where we have been comparing the age demographics and trophy potential of the buffalo on the properties adjacent to the KNP which are hunted to the non-hunted buffalo of the adjacent KNP buffalo. For this we use a light sport aircraft and a high quality camera to photograph whole buffalo populations. Such is the quality of these photos that I can even see oxpeckers on the buffo - and while painstakingly slow every buffalo photographed is sexed, aged and trophy assessed. With the help of two Oxford University science masters students we were training artificial intelligence computers through a process similar to facial recognition, to assess the photos. Our results have not only raised a red flag, they have set the alarm bells ringing! When compared to non-hunted populations, the hunted populations average trophy sizes are very much smaller. As an interesting aside we also looked at the spread sizes of all the cows in a population - because this has a significant influence on trophy potential through the quantitative additive state process.
It is now obvious to all of those who set quotas and make important management decisions that how the hunting of buffalo has been conducted up to now is simply not sustainable - and the reasons why this is so, are now clearly understood. But all is not lost, the decline of trophy quality in a population can be stopped and even reversed but only if there is a radical mindset change to what class of bulls get hunted, and when
To preserve and improve an areas overall trophy quality, a real trophy sized bull should only be hunted when he is 12 yrs old or older - so he as been afforded every opportunity to lead a full reproductively successful life. Conversely, poor quality (34 inch spread or less)'management' bulls (which now make up the vast majority of the bulls in the huntable populations) should be hunted in their 8 th year. This is when their bosses are just about fully hardened - the age when most bulls start their three yr breeding tenure. Their genes should be removed form the system before they get passed on.
As Andrew Baldwin so correctly says a trophy should not be measured by inches and record book ranking, it should be measured by age, effort and character. Any old buffalo hunted the right way, by track walk and stalk and taken cleanly at close range should be regarded as a 'trophy', regardless of how big his horn spread it - period.

To add to my previous post yes we do see nice and big 48 inch plus buffalo from time to time - so they are out there but in reality they are very few and far between. Personally I believe they should be regarded as national treasures and if hunted, then most certainly not before their 12 th year.

Thank you Kevin,
Now that is an answer....and I think the purpose of the thread..
It sound like perhaps a shift to remove many substandard bulls of prime age (8) should be hammered as a good management plan in many many areas....just like we do with Whitetails here in NA...

doctari505,

Great post!

Perhaps outfitters should start giving discounts (or rebates) on buffalo "trophy" fees when a hunter takes an older, yet mediocre bull (32-36")?

Just a thought.

BTW: I love your guide to evaluating Buffalo. I refer to it when watching TV documentaries showing buffalo, and then try to estimate the age and width of the bulls.

BH63

BH63,

Basically there is a discount for hunting a small spread but mature bull. Note Mokore Safaris offer on their non-trophy buffalo hunts. $8,500 dollars all in for a buffalo hunt in a wild place is a heck of a deal.

Mark

doctari505 - thanks for posting that. I'd be interested to read more on quantitative additive state theory/methodology if you would suggest any references.

Hi JabaliHunter. I got the information on quantitative additive state from a geneticist friend of mine. If you email me at doctari505@gmail.com I will share his contact details with you.

You might want to reflect that in the past the safari was a long drawn out affair and numerous buffalo were hunted. Nowadays a seven day hunt is the norm and few Phs will pass up an opportunity on a solid buff.

Most big buff I have seen come out of Zambia have been on the more lengthy Lion or Leopard hunts.

The picture is of one that I have seen now and again and look forward to the day he strays from the herd.