I was reading "Buffalo!" by Boddington last night and it included a picture of a lion-killed buffalo skull.

The buff had a spread of 54", a decent curl, tips still fairly sharp, but about even with the boss, and was thick and heavy throughout.

It reminded me of pictures of big buffalo killed decades ago by hunters like Burger ("Black Death"), etc.

There are still a few buff killed with spreads in the mid-40s or better, but most of these seem to lack the really heavy boss and thick horns of the old trophies.

In Dr. Robertson's book "Evaluation of Buffalo Trophies" (may have maimed the title), he shows a picture of an old buff that he says "is the best he has every had the fortune to see".

It is over 50" wide, but the boss has been worn down and the horns, while long and decently curved, seem rather spindly in relation to the width.

Do any of the old style, heavy horned, big bossed, 50" plus bulls still exist?

BH63

My experience is limited (Tanzania, Zim and Namibia) but the only buff I have seen similar to the ones you are describing were in the Chobe area of Botswana in 2010. Probably because of the very limited quota allowed.

I believe Lake Burigi in Tanzania is your best bet for big buff today.

.

A trophy buffalo is one that you have hunted well and one that is of age.

quote:

A trophy buffalo is one that you have hunted well and one that is of age.

Spot on!

I think you can find that size in South Africa on various farms....

Big Buff are still found throughout Africa but more so in Tanzania. Just genetics really. As Dogcat said you can but genetics.

BF63,

I do think those giants may be fewer and far between than before but given time and a good area like the Luangwa in Zambia a very big buffalo is possible. Johnny Du Plooy/Muchinga Adventures took 5 bulls last year in excess of 43" and up to 48" on his Chifunda GMA. I have a client doing a dedicated 14 day two buffalo hunt there this year. Maybe he'll find a giant.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
I think you can find that size in South Africa on various farms....

But do you get to keep the ear tag?

quote:

A trophy buffalo is one that you have hunted well and one that is of age.

I have never hunted buffalo and never will, but should it have or ever could happen, the statement that Fairgame made is plenty good enough for me.

The TROPHY is not just the animal but the effort put forth to kill the animal and it is NOT the opinion of the Peanut Gallery that decides what is or isn't a Trophy, biut the thoughts/beliefs of the hunter.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
I think you can find that size in South Africa on various farms....

But do you get to keep the ear tag?

You can mount the ear tag.....

All jesting aside, I think Craig Boddington made the comment that the 42" and bigger buff have killed with increasing frequency leaving the narrower buffalo to do the breeding. When I was in Zambia a few years ago with a low life PH (Hartley Combrink, deceased), he commented that they had "shot out" all the big buffalo. Based on what he showed us, he was right. We looked at 500 or more with50 to 75 being bulls, we never saw anything over 40".

As the hunting industry continues to mature, targeting the really big bulls may be a problem. Much like why there are no 100 lb elephants out there. It is not all due to poaching. We, the hunting public, have been targeting the biggest and best for the past 40 years and this has taken a toll on the genes and the number of truly big buff and elephants.

Ethics matter....

Exactly !!!
Sums it up.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
A trophy buffalo is one that you have hunted well and one that is of age.

Just reading here on AR and seeing some reports out of Uganda, I think there are fair number there with that kind of heavy big boss wide spread horns - not hunted for decades.

quote:

Originally posted by AB109:
Exactly !!!
Sums it up.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
A trophy buffalo is one that you have hunted well and one that is of age.

Exactly!

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
A trophy buffalo is one that you have hunted well and one that is of age.

I would agree and think it's a good measure for any animal. But, can't help but think of the very recent thread about the impact of importation bans on bookings, in spite of what is often said about the parmount experience of the hunt.

I think many people seem to be missing the broader point to the thread here...
Andrew is right in his braod comment about what is a "trophy Buffalo"
But isn't the real point here that over, say, a fifty year period of the last half century to today...has Hunting and targeting of these type of massive bulls ( so incredibly rare today in the wild) led to a diminished genetic pool all over for these type of Bulls?
Were they not FAR more common a half century ago?
Likely, even then, were they really relegated to many East African hunting areas (which is still were some are found today)?

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
A trophy buffalo is one that you have hunted well and one that is of age.

My thoughts exactly.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
A trophy buffalo is one that you have hunted well and one that is of age.

Well said!

This bullshit about spread and bosses really needs to stop. A trophy is simply a mature animal well and fairly earned.

quote:

us

Fully agree!

It's nice when they are both (great experience and wide) and also old, big boss, and have beautiful character. I ve shot a number of buffalo, some with more fun / hair raising than others. I carefully researched where the recent widest were to be found and clearly the Lake Manyara gene produces wide spread although I prefer the deep, heavy curl of the Kruger buff. Looking at history and RW there is no doubt the wide gened buff are rarer.

I also wanted fair chase and not bred buff. Kenya is out but buff from Kenya were mixed with Southern (Kruger) buff in the Waterberg in Namibia. A fellow had shot a 50" plus the year before I went in 2016 but it was fairly " horizontal" like the Kenya ones without the curl. I got lucky. My PH had seen one he thought was very big, maybe 50", and had hunted it for two weeks but walking in the deep sand the client gave up. I was patient and on our last day in the Waterberg at sunset we saw him, about a foot taller at the shoulder than the others. We had no option as the sunset but to walk up to the 4 bulls along their escape route. They ran at full speed past us at 90 degrees and I got a shot in with my .577 double in at about 70 yards and 100 yards later he was down but needed some final shots. I m not one for measurements but he was 47" wide and by SCI measurements ( my PH asked if he could borrow the horns for measurement in Windhoek) he measured the 3 rd highest ever in
Namibia. The reason was the deep curl and backward thrust of the horns. I have a pedestal mount of it and it's too big for my TV room so my wife insisted I build (yes of course dear!) a game room for it. I also have a pedestal replica mount of the Lake Manyara record 64" that I was offered dirt cheap if I used the cape from another buffalo I shot. People say the Waterberg one is much more beautiful / handsome and I must agree, and it was a great example of patience, persistence,luck excitement, and fun. And the back straps and oxtail were delicious! The best kind of trophy! Sorry if it sounds boasting but sometimes even a blind squirrel gets lucky.

The next client wounded a buffalo in the Waterberg and the PH s assistant ( the PH was not with but had to track down the wounded buff and shot it during a charge two days later with it dropping at his feet) got badly injured and only survived beacuase there was an helicopter in the area that was able to evacuate him to hospital.

In the end, hoody really cares about the spread
Hunting buff is where the fun is
I for one don’t care about the spread, show me old bull...

quote:

Originally posted by bwanajay:
I believe Lake Burigi in Tanzania is your best bet for big buff today.

.

Interesting opinion. I was under the impression that this area was hit pretty hard by refugees from Rwanda and that many of those people decided to stay.

Have you hunted this area recently? I know in the past it was a very good area for many species but that can be said of lot of blocks in western Tanzania.

Also, I've had this very same discussion with some of the PHs I have hunted with in Tanzania. They said that genetics do make a difference and that in Tanzania the body size and horn development of buffalo are best in Masailand.

In their opinion, the body size of the Selous Reserve buffalo are generally smaller; however, many 45" to 50" buffalo have been taken there. My own experience with buffalo at least in Tanzania confirms their opinions.

In the West and SW of Tanzania there are still big buffalo or at least there were. Katavi and Ruaha NPs are large, protected areas and the buffalo there certainly have the space and protection needed to grow big trophies. I suspect some nice bulls are shot each year in the areas surrounding them- I remember seeing one bull, 50" according to Mr. Blunt, near the Katavi NP buffer zone one time. We didn't get him but we certainly tried...

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
I think you can find that size in South Africa on various farms....

But do you get to keep the ear tag?

Strictly speaking it should be included in the price and on special request you could probably have the mount with tag in place - just remember which ear it was on so it matches with the photos.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Just reading here on AR and seeing some reports out of Uganda, I think there are fair number there with that kind of heavy big boss wide spread horns - not hunted for decades.

Mostly in National Parks and other protected areas, as you would find in Tanzania's Tarangire/Manyara & Serengeti National Parks.

100%. Spend a week in the Omay to get it (where the trophy quality is improving now, BTW)and you have had a hunt. You've had a hunt even if you don't get it.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
A trophy buffalo is one that you have hunted well and one that is of age.

I have seen some whooping big buff in both Tanzania and Zimbabwe. I am talking 48 or higher. The problem is that they were all young with soft bosses.

Personally, I would rather walk all day in extreme heat and shoot a fully mature average bull than shoot some giant with little effort or a young one. One has to take the opportunity that is given. I once shot a 46.5 on ARDA in the first 15 minutes of the first day.

Big buff in the last 10 years:

1- the 46.5 above
2 - several in the 44’s
3- a 38 with 19 inch bosses
4-a ?? With 22.5 inch bosses

Those with 50 inch spread are out there . They are rare. I was on a charter with Gerard Miller and his client about 10 years ago. Gerard has killed some whopping big buff. He recons that Maisailand in December was the best bet.

They are there, it is just your luck to find them.

Bigg4st buffalo I have shot was 49, with a broken horn too.

Easiest buffalo there was.

We were driving to a leopard blind, saw them running across us from the car.

We jumped out and 5 minutes later we had two d4ad buffalo!

Any herd of animals have a finite number of potential trophy specimens. By trophy it is generally accepted as a minimum standard by way of horn size measurement.

The trait is generally epigenetically determined and is animal age dependent.

This fact has been a subject of academic study in determining the trophy yield potential of groupings of animals in specific biomes.

Years ago academics in the game industry warned that over utilization of animals with certain traits would lead to a potential situation where certain traits could disappear.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
A trophy buffalo is one that you have hunted well and one that is of age.

Exactly!

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
Any herd of animals have a finite number of potential trophy specimens. By trophy it is generally accepted as a minimum standard by way of horn size measurement.

The trait is generally epigenetically determined and is animal age dependent.

This fact has been a subject of academic study in determining the trophy yield potential of groupings of animals in specific biomes.

Years ago academics in the game industry warned that over utilization of animals with certain traits would lead to a potential situation where certain traits could disappear.

A focus on preserving certain traits and eliminating undesirable ones can enhance the percentage of desirable specimens. For those with desirable traits, establish an age limit that they must exceed before being taken to ensure they have had the full opportunity to pass on their genes.

For those with undesirable traits, both bulls and cows, take early before they have the chance. The cow's genetics are 1/2 the equation. Reduce the price for these "culls" to entice participation.

If the second part is not possible or palatable, the the first part - age of the bulls taken - will have a positive impact.

And by the way - lions will not play by these rules ....

My first buff hunt in 1994 we looked for a 40" buff as the minimum. Ten years later it was if a 38" was seen, take it. The last ten years it was a solid boss buff with no measurement.
Does not look good.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I have seen some whooping big buff in both Tanzania and Zimbabwe. I am talking 48 or higher. The problem is that they were all young with soft bosses.

Personally, I would rather walk all day in extreme heat and shoot a fully mature average bull than shoot some giant with little effort or a young one. One has to take the opportunity that is given. I once shot a 46.5 on ARDA in the first 15 minutes of the first day.

Big buff in the last 10 years:

1- the 46.5 above
2 - several in the 44’s
3- a 38 with 19 inch bosses
4-a ?? With 22.5 inch bosses

Those with 50 inch spread are out there . They are rare. I was on a charter with Gerard Miller and his client about 10 years ago. Gerard has killed some whopping big buff. He recons that Maisailand in December was the best bet.

During my last hunt in the Caprivi, we saw a legit 48+ bull, but he was young with soft bosses. That bull had a huge body.

quote:

Originally posted by Texas Blue Devil:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I have seen some whooping big buff in both Tanzania and Zimbabwe. I am talking 48 or higher. The problem is that they were all young with soft bosses.

Personally, I would rather walk all day in extreme heat and shoot a fully mature average bull than shoot some giant with little effort or a young one. One has to take the opportunity that is given. I once shot a 46.5 on ARDA in the first 15 minutes of the first day.

Big buff in the last 10 years:

1- the 46.5 above
2 - several in the 44’s
3- a 38 with 19 inch bosses
4-a ?? With 22.5 inch bosses

Those with 50 inch spread are out there . They are rare. I was on a charter with Gerard Miller and his client about 10 years ago. Gerard has killed some whopping big buff. He recons that Maisailand in December was the best bet.

During my last hunt in the Caprivi, we saw a legit 48+ bull, but he was young with soft bosses. That bull had a huge body.

Obviously you are not an SCI TROPHY HUNTER!

Otherwise you have shot that bull.

We have passed many big bulls that were still soft.

Apparently taxidermists can do wonders to fix the soft boss and gap, guaranteeing you a ticket into one of SCI's INNER CIRCLES!

quote:

Gerard has killed some whopping big buff. He recons that Maisailand in December was the best bet.

Indeed, it being the start of the short rains, they haul ass out from the adjacent Tarangire National Park into the Simanjiro GC and Lolkissale hunting blocks.

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

Gerard has killed some whopping big buff. He recons that Maisailand in December was the best bet.

Indeed, it being the start of the short rains, they haul ass out from the adjacent Tarangire National Park into the Simanjiro GC and Lolkissale hunting blocks.

Yes, I've seen it happen and it is fantastic. Buffalo grazing everywhere, spot and stalk. In these areas at the right time you can afford to be very selective.

quote:

Gerard has killed some whopping big buff. He recons that Maisailand in December was the best bet.

I have hunted with Gerard Miller many times and killed some big buff, mostly in December but some in the thick stuff of Simanjiro in the dry season.

quote:

Originally posted by bwanajay:

quote:

Gerard has killed some whopping big buff. He recons that Maisailand in December was the best bet.

I have hunted with Gerard Miller many times and killed some big buff, mostly in December but some in the thick stuff of Simanjiro in the dry season.

That must be a lot of fun.

We had about a four hour charter together with him and his client, a gentleman from Maryland. I very much enjoyed the discussions with him.

I last saw him coming around a corner seconds after I had just shot a hippo for bait. He was taking the client to the airstrip as he was leaving early. He had gotten his lion. The lion was not the world's greatest lion. However, it charged and the client shot it. They had no choice. I could tell from the look on Gerard's face that it had been a very close call. I learned later that I was right.

Looking at buff pictures taken by Tony Sanchez-Arino last night in his book "Last of the Few".

He had one 50" buff shot in Angola in 1967 (or thereabouts). That is a beautiful buff who had it all.

Big thick heavy boss completely fused, thick horns with a decent curl, and sharp tips about even with the boss.

On another page he had a 54" buff that was almost as good. (I think it was shot in Tanzania). It had everything, but the boss was not quite as fused. It's tips were a bit higher than the boss so it may have been a younger bull, but it was still a magnificent specimen.

I don't disagree that any animal that is shot in a fair chase can be considered a trophy. And the harder you worked for it, the more it will mean (or should mean) to the hunter.

But if you consider a "trophy" a truly exceptional example of its species, then they are getting almost impossible to find (at least for the average hunter on safari).

But the reality is that 32"-36" buff with 13" bosses are pretty much just "average" mature bulls. And even 40" plus buff with spindly horns or soft bosses are not on par with the truly large buff shown in pictures taken a few decades ago.

Just as the average weight of "trophy" elephants seem to drop every year, so does the overall quality of "trophy" buff.

JMO

BH63