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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Swift A-Frame on BuffaloGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| One of Us |
Just got back from a trip where I shot a buffalo using a 300 gr Swift A Frame. The bullet went thru the top of the heart w/o hitting bone but hit bone soon after. It did its job well; the buff ran about 70 yards into the brush. On the follow up we heard the death bellow, and it was assuming ambient temperature when we got there. Strange thing, to me, is that the bullet now weighs 127 grains! I'd think an A Frame might retain more of it's weight, and 127 grains might be more like what I'd expect from a Nosler Partition, and this not a knock on the Partition. This was my first buffalo so obviously I'm an expert and know it all, but any comments from you guys with more buff experience? jmbn Old and in the way | ||
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| Administrator |
It worked. And that is all that matters. But, I suspect it has lost all the lead from the rear end. | |||
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By most accounts of the a frame that I've heard, that is a true bullet failure. | |||
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I shot a big buffalo with a follow up shot from a 470 Nitro using North Fork Monolithic solid (their true solid not the cup point) It hit a bone along the way and crushed the front of the bullet. Shoot enough and unexpected things will happen even with good bullets. Dead buffalo, good job!! | |||
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That is a surprise. They advertise 95% weight retention. I've never used Swift, but always heard from PHs that they're excellent. I would call Swift, describe the bullet & hopefully send photos to someone there and ask for an opinion. Makes one worry about a shot where deep penetration is needed. I've used Barnes TSX, Woodleigh softs & solids, Hornady DGX & DGS, and the "old" Hornday solids on Buffalo. Solids always just for backup shots. All worked as expected. Of the expanding bullets, TSX has performed the best for me. Only bullet that ever gave me a surprise was the one time I used a .458 550gr Woodleigh soft on an Aussie buffalo. Recovered weight was very low. I'll test a few in wet paper/water mix before I use them again. | |||
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I have shot ten bulls all with a 416 Rem Mag using 400 gr Swifts. I know that’s a small sample size but that’s what I got. 95 percent weight retention on all. Two one shot kills. It’s a great bullet.IMHO | |||
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What does the recovered bullet look like? It obviously got the buff dead, but that’s very different than what my experience has been with AFrames. | |||
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I now use only monolithic bullets, mainly Barnes TSXs, or near monolithics, such as Trophy Bonded Bear Claws or Hirtenberger ABCs. With these bullets, one will have no issues of anything separating from anything else. They just expand wickedly and penetrate. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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| Administrator |
The bullets did not fail. They did their job. And No bullet will always retain 95% of its weight. Not even mono copper. Pure advertising bullshit. What matters is Swift do work. Swift do loose the lead from the rear ends. That is why I only mono copper. And I do have many recovered which do not retain 90% of their weight. | |||
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| One of Us |
I've shot buffalo with Woodleigh's, Nosler's and Swift A-frames. The A-Frame has always performed for me. Sounds like it did for you too. A one shot kill is the goal, but not always achieved. It's my bullet of choice. I'm not a fan of the mono bullets. | |||
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I’ve taken Buffalo with 500 gr. SAF (458 Lott), Buffalo with 400 gr. SAF (404 Jeffery), Lion anD Buffalo with 300 gr. SAF (375H&H), and Hippo with 300 gr. SAF (9.3x62). None have failed me. My bullet of choice for DG. I have also used TBBC on Buffalo with complete satisfaction. | |||
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I have a 500 gr Barnes solid that traveled the length of a Buffalo hitting some thick bone, as it scored the nose. It weighs 498.7 gr. It probably shed some of that weight on the rifling, but I doubt any of that was shed in the Buffalo. 99.7% weight retention. I’d consider a bullet to be a failure if it repeatedly didn’t preform as advertised. Ok, so it killed the Buffalo. Big deal. Swift never said “This bullet will kill Buffalo”. They said it would retain 95% of its weight. It failed to do that. Stuff happens. So, unless we get reports back from multiple people that this is happening, I’d chalk it up to a fluke. | |||
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| Administrator |
No bullet would retain that weight all the time. I am sure it was an advertising exec who wrote it. Some of our own Walterhog bullets recovered from game animals | |||
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After soaking the bullet overnite and giving it a good brushing, it appears that Saeed is right. The copper at the base end is not the base, but rather it's the web. There is no lead behind the web; only lead is a flattish dome in front of the web. It's like they might use a stiffer lead in front of the web, or possible the lead behind the web isn't bonded. I know that the A-Frame has a very good rep, and those who have pointed out that the bullet did it's job are obviously correct. Oh well. jmbn Old and in the way | |||
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I read somewhere that the Swift A Frame is only bonded in the front. The rear is not bonded. | |||
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Very interesting. Did you load the bullets yourself? And if yes, do you still have some bullets left from the box? I just started reloading 400gr A-frames for .416 Rigby. I have bought bullets at 4 different occasions over the years but never got around loading them. This means I had 4 different batches/ages on them. All are genuine Seift A-frames. However - all of them had the cannelure on different heights! Comparing the lowest with the highest there was even no overlap at all. So apparently the A-frames has seen some redesign over the years that has not been advertised (at least I haven't seen anything and couldn't find anything online, and Swift didn't respond to my request). So, my experience was for a heavier bullet but there might be changes to the design of your bullet as well so it would be interesting to know if the shape is the currently sold one or an older one. I'll see if I'll be able to upload a pic of my 4 bullets. | |||
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I've shot 3-4 buffalo, a couple hippo, a lion and all sorts of PG from very large to small with A-Frames plus a half dozen moose and more caribou. They worked perfectly. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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I borrowed the 375; the owner did the reloading. jmbn Old and in the way | |||
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| Administrator |
As far as I know, Swift have always had the tendency to loose the lead behind the partition. I have heard about it years ago, and experienced it myself. Having said that, they are very good bullets. But as a personal choice, I prefer mono copper. Best of all I make mine myself. | |||
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Do you really know if that is the same bullet that you shot that Buffalo with. On one of my lion hunts I told the skinner that I would really appreciate if he would look extra hard to recover bullets. He told me he found one from my lion but it definitely wasent a nosler partition. DRSS Searcy 470 NE | |||
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We take great care to recover our bullets, and sometimes we do find others from before. But, there is no mistakes, as ours are unique. Might wish to look at the thread on recovered bullets I posted. | |||
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Sorry Saeed. My last post was directed to jerrymontgomery DRSS Searcy 470 NE | |||
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I was not referring to your post, just stating that we normally go to great lengths to recover our bullets. Not always successful though. | |||
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Mentioned to the outfitter/PH that I'm bringing A-Frames on the next hunt. He commented it always warms his heart when the client brings A-Frames. | |||
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One trip my wife and I took two buffalo with two different 375s. 300 grain A-Frame. Unsually, both went top of heart and broke offside shoulder. Both one shot kills. Both bullets recovered. I was amazed to weigh them when we got home - 92 and 90% weight retention. I really was surprised at the performance. For a "soft" on buffalo, I think they may be the best. Certainly among them. | |||
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Of the half dozen or so buff I have shot all have been with Swift A-Frame. All performed flawlessly. Not to say that it cannot happen. As most of us know when it comes to hunting, anything can and will happen. Tim | |||
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I made the same shot with the 400 .416. Penetrated ribs on both sides and under the skin on the far side. Cut a groove across the top of the heart taking out the arteries. 389 gr. expanded to .750. 2200 fps. Starting load was most accurate. You don't have to run them hard. Too high a velocity can often cause bullet "failure" Scott Scott | |||
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I suppose it was possible that they slipped me the wrong bullet, but the ph was there when the skinner found it. Can't see where he would have any reason to lie to me. Seemed like a pretty honest guy. jmbn Old and in the way | |||
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A friend of mine nearly lost his buff because the A Frame never penetrated through the humerus. Was a perfect broadside heart shot. 300gr. .375. And I recently shot a Wildebeest cow through the front point of her shoulder where the recovered bullet didn't weigh more than 50% of the original. After all the glowing reviews on Swifts, these 2 incidents didn't fill me with much joy. Could there have been a slightly off batch of A Frames that went out? Ride hard, shoot straight and speak the truth. | |||
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Forgot to add this to my other post. An A frame plumb dead center in an Impala chest will not penetrate the full length of the animal. Once again 375 300gr. Is this pretty standard with the forum members experience? That' s not very far into a buffalo. For future hunts the various cup point solids in this caliber is starting to look attractive. Ride hard, shoot straight and speak the truth. | |||
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| Administrator |
These are some of the strange things that happen in the field, that are very hard to explain. A full length penetration in an impala is roughly half a buffalo. I have had occasions of a bullet hitting an impala in the neck/shoulder junction, and the bullet stopped under the skin by his tail. The same bullet, same load, from the same rifle, and the bullet would penetrate from the tail of a buffalo to his neck. Of course, both animals died. And that is all that metters. | |||
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100%. Have had bullets going through Eland, breaking shoulder bones, and then stops under the skin on a Warthog. Once that bullet leaves the barrel, its out of our control, and some things just can't be explained. Marius Goosen KMG Hunting Safaris Cell, Whats App, Signal + 27 82 8205387 E-mail: info@huntsafaris.co.za Website: www.huntsafaris.co.za Skype: muis19820603 Check us out on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kmghuntingsafaris Instagram: @kmg_hunting_safaris | |||
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Certainly not what is expected from an A-Frame, but every single bullet out there can fail, I guess. I always tell my hunters that I don't tell people to shoot A Frames because I shoot them, but that I shoot them because I have seen what they have done for my hunters over the years. Was recently told a story from one of my hunters who overheard a conversation at one of the shows from a gentleman complaining to Hornady about their bullets' weight retention that he recovered from his dear was poor and that they were failing. Their response, "At which point in the animal's death did you feel that the bullet failed?" I think that pretty much sums it up. Marius Goosen KMG Hunting Safaris Cell, Whats App, Signal + 27 82 8205387 E-mail: info@huntsafaris.co.za Website: www.huntsafaris.co.za Skype: muis19820603 Check us out on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kmghuntingsafaris Instagram: @kmg_hunting_safaris | |||
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USMC Retired DSC Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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| one of us |
I have shot 8 buffalo with the .416 400 gr A Frame and never had any issues. Shot an eland, hippo, and elephant with this bullet as well as smaller stuff. Never had an issue. | |||
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| Administrator |
We have recovered a few bullets, some 375 and some 416, of various makes, including Swift A Frames, from buffalo we have shot. These bullets were shot by previous hunters. Some bullets have been in the animals for a very long time, and some no more than a few days or weeks. Bullets were found in the groin, the hump above the shoulders, or under the skin in the stomach. My feeling has always been these might have been pass through other animals. | |||
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I used 180gr Swift A-Frames out of a 30-378 Weatherby and 250gr Swift's in a 375 H&H on a plains game hunt years ago in Africa. All but two exited the various animals I shot. One passed the length of a Kudu and we found it under the skin in the front of the chest. The other was from a Zebra that stopped under the skin outside the ribcage on the off side. The two recovered were out of the 375 and weighed 248.8gr and 248.4gr. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Swift A-Frame on Buffalo
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