Chris,

That sounds about right to me.

my basic method for tipping is:
for just plainsgame hunt, then Base tip is $50/day for PH
for dangerous game hunts is $100/day for the PH
I will make some adjustments up or down based on service/effort.
trackers I tip similarly but the amount is either determined by asking the PH or I fiqure about 25% of the daily tipping I am giving to the PH.

I think my tip amounts work out to be in the ballpark of most others do.

you mean it is not $50/week for a DG HUNT to the PH and $100 /week for everybody else to be divided 10- 15 ways? humm!!

quickshot: That has been my current standard as well.

Here is Walters suggestion:

He says we should give the PH a blank cheque as soon as we arrive.

At the end of the hunt, he fills it in, and gives it back to us to sign.

If we had thought the amount he has written is worth it, we sign the cheque.

If not, we take the cheque from him and say good bye!

Now you know why Walter is such a genius!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Here is Walters suggestion:

He says we should give the PH a blank cheque as soon as we arrive.

At the end of the hunt, he fills it in, and gives it back to us to sign.

If we had thought the amount he has written is worth it, we sign the cheque.

If not, we take the cheque from him and say good bye!

Now you know why Walter is such a genius!

Saeed,

I'd love to watch that piece of torture being exacted..

I think of it this way. If I walk into a resteraunt and eat a steak and the steak is good and the waitress is quick, smart, and nice I tip $5 for a $15 meal.

If she is a nice, and quick and smart I still tip $5 for a $15 meal. Even if the steak is shit.

If both are shit I don't tip.

I don't tip at fast food places, anyplace I get served at a counter, buffets, and taco stands.

I tip at the bar if they are cordial and nice and quick helps too. I won't tip a woman more than a man or vice versa.

I have tipped $10 on a $10 meal, and .05$ on a $50 meal.

I didn't give my PH a tip, I tipped the staff though. He worked pretty hard to be an asshole.

18 day DG hunt in Zim this year.
I tipped the PH 10% of the total daily rate. I then asked each of the two PHs in camp (independantly) their opinion of the amounts for the camp staff. It ended up as; 150.00 each for the trackers, chef 50.00, assistant chef 30.00, waiter 50.00, skinner 50.00, assistant skinner 30.00, boilers/ general 20.00, camp manager 100.00.
This all sits well with me and I have kept the details to use next year. On the subject of the outfitter also being your PH I dont think that it should make a difference and that the same PH tip should apply.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
God, i hope that was per day and not total amount. if that was the total amount, i would hate to be the next unfortunate hunter in that camp!!

That kind of generosity is quite common with
Austrian and German clients - $100 (in $20 notes) to PH for a
10 day Buff + PG ( Buff measured 41" with ultra
solid boss, 27" East African Impala, representative heads for Tommy, H/Beeste & Grant's gazelle.

Guess it's difficult to beat that!!

not sure i would classify $50 for a 7 day DG hunt as generosity but i guess it is better than $100 split among the entire hunting truck and camp staff

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

That kind of generosity is quite common with
Austrian and German clients - $100 (in $20 notes) to PH for a
10 day Buff + PG ( Buff measured 41" with ultra
solid boss, 27" East African Impala, representative heads for Tommy, H/Beeste & Grant's gazelle.

Guess it's difficult to beat that!!

You have to remember that tipping is not a custom in most of Europe. If a tip is left, it is usually just a few small coins from change after payment. While stationed in Germany, I had other patrons catch me at the door to return the money I had "forgotten" on the table when I left a restaurant.

When in SA in June the outfitter suggested tips of 10% of daily fees for the PH, $125 for the cook, and $50 to be split between the driver, skinner, and maid on a 7 day hunt.

On a 7 day buff hunt in the Selous in '06, I tipped the PH, who was a good one, $600.00, plus gave him a new Boyt soft gun case and a decent Benchmade skinner. I broke the rest of a grand up among the rest of the staff. That left me with $200.00 to go home on. I think everyone was happy. I know I was.

quote:

Originally posted by jetdrvr:
On a 7 day buff hunt in the Selous in '06, I tipped the PH, who was a good one, $600.00, plus gave him a new Boyt soft gun case and a decent Benchmade skinner. I broke the rest of a grand up among the rest of the staff. That left me with $200.00 to go home on. I think everyone was happy. I know I was.

Before the US dollar went swirling down the toilet bowl, I used to tip the PH $100/day, camp staff $5 to $10 per day (less in an overstaffed camp), and trackers $10 to $25 per day (more if there are not too many of them). I would try to up the PH's tip in view of the lower value of the dollar. But I would probably keep the tracker tips in that same range, as they are already quite fortunate having a job in a country with 50-80% unemployment, and I do not want to spoil them for the next guy.

One way to motivate trackers is to offer little incentives along the way, such as "Whoever is the first to spot the eland that I shoot will receive this here 25th anniversary edition of Playboy magazine". It seems to generate some excitement.

i always tell the trackers(seems there are usually 2) that whoever spots the animal we are after gets a pack of cigarettes. even the few who don't smoke can always sell or trade their pack and believe me, they are all eyes!!

quote:

One way to motivate trackers is to offer little incentives along the way, such as "Whoever is the first to spot the eland that I shoot will receive this here 25th anniversary edition of Playboy magazine". It seems to generate some excitement.

I do something simmelar with my staff, giving them about US$100 if they see a leopard that we then succesfully take, or N$20 for any bullets found in animals.

There is no such thing as a standard tip. However, there are some things to bear in mind as reference points.

A hired PH who is on a daily rate and provides his own vehicle gets about $125 to 150 per day, plus his fuel in most cases. So if you tip that guy $100 per day, you would have to be supremely happy with every aspect of his service.

Some PHs are on salary and the vehicle is provided by the outfitter. I have no idea what these guys are paid but it's probably about $75 per day or so. Input would be interesting.

Camp staff are paid a pittance. As in $125 per month, even less in Zim. So if you tip one of them $100 for an entire week's hunt, you have made him a very happy man (and you may create a problem for the outfitter in that some or all of that money will end up being spent on women and booze). It's a good idea to consult the employer before tipping the employee, to keep things in the realm of reason.

The tip should be sufficiently large to serve the intended purpose, ie serve as in incentive. And if the service is lousy (as opposed to pure bad luck on a hunt), then the tip should be niggardly to send the intended message. Since clients tip all over the place, the tip should be accompanied with a verbal explanation. As in "you guys did a super job, therefore I am tipping you more than I budgeted". Or "I felt that you didn't put out for me, for example xxx, therefore I am reducing your tip below my budgeted amount". This takes the noise out of the message.

If you are going to leave a reduced tip, it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. As I have stated more than once, if things are not going well, you should bring that up right away and not let it fester. That way the operator has the chance to pick up the pace and/or address your concern. If he doesn't, then you won't feel embarrassed to say "The hunt was disappointing for x and y reasons, and worse, when I pointed out the issue, it was not resolved to my satisfaction so I am leaving no tip".

There is one special case that I would mention, where the PH is also the concession-holder or landowner. In that case, a rather large chunk of the total hunt cost is going into his pocket anyway. The trophy fees serve as an incentive for this person to put his best foot forward, as well as his desire to get a good reference from you. In that case, you may want to skew the tip a bit toward the hired hands, and tell him you were delighted with the hunt and would be more than happy to provide a positive reference.

For those who give stuff away...make sure it's something the guy wants, not just something you don't want. Most of them will comment on your equipment if they covet it...they are not dumb.

For hunters who are scraping together the cost of the hunt, it would be polite to tell the PH, at the time you pay the deposit, that the hunt is a stretch for you financially and to ask whether there is anything you can do for, or bring for, the PH in lieu of a normal tip. You may offer him the use of your home to conduct a marketing bbq, for example. You will have to tip the staff in cash, so if you can't afford that, then don't book.

Now without being a party pooper, I would also like to point out that well-heeled hunters who tip "over the top" are establishing an expectation that most of us can't meet. This distorts the concept of tipping, as our "normal" tips are now construed as a negative comment on the hunt, or the act of a scrooge.

I paid a compliment to Nyati,my tracker, on how he was tracking for buffalo. I sensed that he was satisfied that I paid attention to what and how he was going about the whole thing.I told him what in particular I liked.I really meant what I said and was not just saying bullshit.I could tell that Nyati ENJOYED hunting buff and that could be why he was given that nickname by his parents.The next time I hunt buff,I will go out my way to have him as my tracker.

quote:

Originally posted by Russ Gould:
For hunters who are scraping together the cost of the hunt, it would be polite to tell the PH, at the time you pay the deposit, that the hunt is a stretch for you financially and to ask whether there is anything you can do for, or bring for, the PH in lieu of a normal tip. You may offer him the use of your home to conduct a marketing bbq, for example. You will have to tip the staff in cash, so if you can't afford that, then don't book.

That's very good advice.

I agree with Russ Gould 100%. Be rational and reasonable.

Aziz

Question, from what I am reading, 10% of the basic hunt cost is about right for the P.H.? Does that apply if the P.H. is the outfitter as well? A theoretical problem, if that extra 10% would be a make or break cost for the safari, would the outfitter prefer I not make the hunt, or make the hunt and tip a more affordable amount for me. I am planning a 10 day hunt in Tanzania, which would be abobut a $15,000 basic hunt, with an expected tip of $1500. I know there will be some who will say if you can't affort the price don't come, and it that's the consensus, I just won't come. I'm not arguing the fairness of the amt. just whether I can afford it. Please, no "hit"reples. I an 62 years old, retired on disability, and have no means to work extra and make extra money. Thanks in advance for civil replies, Rusty Carr

Russ Gould, I see you have thought the issue through very thoroughly. I would like to add, however, that although the PH generally faces fairly low living expenses in Africa, some things cost him a hell of a lot of money. Such as US$60K for a new Toyota Landcruiser. US$10 per gallon for diesel. US$400 or more for a box of 470 NE. $15,000 in expenses to attend SCI/Reno. US$20,000 budget for winter vacation in the U.K. Etc. So although a tip of $100 or $150 per day seems like a lot, it's really not much at all compared to the long-term expenses that the PH faces.

Thanks, Russ Gould
I obviously didn't read your post before I made mine. That certainly cleared up a lot of my concerns. I will have a chance to meet with my P.H./concession holder this Jan. in the U.S. and will certainly talk with him concerning this. I had the privilage of hunting with him in RSA this summer, and enjoyed every aspect of the hunt, and I believe I can speak frankly with him. Thanks, Again, Rusty

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
So although a tip of $100 or $150 per day seems like a lot, it's really not much at all compared to the long-term expenses that the PH faces.

Nor is it a lot compared to the overall cost of a $20K safari. I think 10% of the daily rate or $100-150/day for the PH is not out of line at all.

My God, you lot are cheapsakes!

I have billions of Zimbabwe dollars, and I am going to make our camp staff VERY happy.

No one will get less than 50,000,000 dollars for looking after us!

Last month in Limpopo my PH got $700 for 7 days hunting.
He worked hard and got me to a nice nyala, wartie, baboon and duiker, and a great zebra and bushbuck.
He provided his own bakkie.

My exellent tracker / skinner with eyes like a hawk, got a packet of cigarettes each morning, and the rest of the carton when I left.
He also got most of my hunting clothes and $70 of me private, as well as his share of the collective tips we all provided for the staff.

I was very satiesfied with the hunt, animals taken, food and accomodation, and was more than happy to show my gratitude.

So if I understand correctly,what is being said here by some is that,even after spending 20000 or 40000 for hunting, you MUST tip the PH and if you don't tip him an amount equal to or double his salary then STAY HOME.Are any of you in the safari business and not telling us?

quote:

For hunters who are scraping together the cost of the hunt, it would be polite to tell the PH, at the time you pay the deposit, that the hunt is a stretch for you financially and to ask whether there is anything you can do for, or bring for, the PH in lieu of a normal tip. You may offer him the use of your home to conduct a marketing bbq, for example. You will have to tip the staff in cash, so if you can't afford that, then don't book.

I am afraid I do not agree with this at all.

This tipping business has got out of hand.

Outfitters post hunts and make sure they point out that TIPS are not included in the price.

Meaning that you have to take that into consideration.

The whole idea of a tip is to show your appreciation for a job very well done, not to supplement the income of whoever you are hunting with.

I would rather the outfitter has an all inclusive price, and be done with it.

That way one would know precisely how much it is going to cost him before he starts.

Saeed - I agree 100% with you! Increase the price with the average amount of tips..
That way tips will be meant as an extra appreciation and only if you think it is deserved..

What Saeed said.That is the same impression I got when I asked my PH his advice on how I should tip on my hunt.He said it was up to me and suggested a small amount for the staff that I thought made alot of sense.I liked his attitude on the subject, which suggested that he was happy with nothing if the case was that someone did not have many means, and a tip for the PH was just a token of appreciation.I ended up tipping much more than this amount.

Wonderful how Walter always seems to comes up with great ideas.

He suggests that 10% of the safari PRICE is kept by the client.

He then releases this money to the outfitter after his hunt is over, and he is completely satisfied with the outcome.

If not, he keeps the money.

Great incentive for the outfitter to do his job

quote:

Originally posted by Russ Gould:
Now without being a party pooper, I would also like to point out that well-heeled hunters who tip "over the top" are establishing an expectation that most of us can't meet. This distorts the concept of tipping, as our "normal" tips are now construed as a negative comment on the hunt, or the act of a scrooge.

That was well said, Russ!

- mike

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

For hunters who are scraping together the cost of the hunt, it would be polite to tell the PH, at the time you pay the deposit, that the hunt is a stretch for you financially and to ask whether there is anything you can do for, or bring for, the PH in lieu of a normal tip. You may offer him the use of your home to conduct a marketing bbq, for example. You will have to tip the staff in cash, so if you can't afford that, then don't book.

I am afraid I do not agree with this at all.

This tipping business has got out of hand.

Outfitters post hunts and make sure they point out that TIPS are not included in the price.

Meaning that you have to take that into consideration.

The whole idea of a tip is to show your appreciation for a job very well done, not to supplement the income of whoever you are hunting with.

I would rather the outfitter has an all inclusive price, and be done with it.

That way one would know precisely how much it is going to cost him before he starts.

One can always know the maximum a trip is going to cost before he starts. But it is great to know that a hunter has direct influence, through tipping, on the compensation of both the PH and others who have a direct impact on the hunter's time, enjoyment and the hunt should their peformance not meet the hunter's requirements, or exceed it.

What a win-win situation most of the time. The hunter leaves for his safari knowing the maximum he is going to spend and hoping he spends it. He spends it all when he receives the performance and service he expects or more; the PH and staff anticipate the reward for doing their best and for going above and beyond when possible to make the hunter's trip a memorable and successful trip (and success doesn't nessecarily mean big or full bag). When each delivers, all are happy and satisfied. When one doesn't there is good reason for disatisfaction, but the hunter is the only one who has direct infleunce on the compensation of those who didn't perform. The stiffed PH and staff have no recourse - except to try to avoid hunting with that client in the future.

Furthermore, that influence, that tipping, is given with the benefit of hind sight after the performance is rendered. It is known to all, and acts as both a profelactic and an insurance policy encouraging and rewarding the best dilligence, and other elements of performance, penalizing the lack of those elements of performance.

As far as the tipping of "profesionals", it is extremely widespread, but most often called something else such as a performance bonus, Christmas bonus, year end bonus, profit sharing.... the list of names that tipping goes under is LONG, and the list of positions that most often include tipping as an element of compensation is even longer.

Yes a year end bonus, performance bonus, objective goals bonus, Christmas bonus,..., or a tip are meant to refect appreciation for a job well done, and whatever name it goes by, whatever percentage of base pay it might be, it is an element of compensation.

Also, even in the event that outfitters asked for and received an all inclusive price, some, maybe most, clients would still tip. The end result would be no real change, just back to the future.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
He said it was up to me and suggested a small amount for the staff that I thought made alot of sense.

I mean no disrespect, but if I understand correctly that you tipped $100 for the entire staff, including the trackers, for a 7 day buffalo hunt -- assuming that the hunt was a good one and the team delivered for you -- I think that amount borders on embarrassing. I would also be shocked if the PH actually suggested anything like that for the staff assuming a well run hunt. If you assume just a tracker, a driver, a cook, a skinner, a camp assistant, a waiter and a game scout, that works out to less than $15.00/person. That is the tip on a $100 meal for good, friendly service. I am all for not going over board, but by the same token, at some point a tip is so small that a handshake and a thank you are actually more meaningful.

My PH/Outfitter this year had a good method it seems. He had a sheet of paper with each camp staff member's name and their job listed and this included the tracker. Next to their name/job he had a rec. tip amount range from quite low and unsatisfactory service to high for excellent service. I marked each accordingly, totaled the camp staff tip, and gave Tino the full amount which he will distribute at certain times of the year to each staffer. As Tino www.tgsafari.co.za explains the staff seem to spend their tips more wisely using this method. The staff member knows how much you have tipped them just as you leave.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
He said it was up to me and suggested a small amount for the staff that I thought made alot of sense.

I mean no disrespect, but if I understand correctly that you tipped $100 for the entire staff, including the trackers, for a 7 day buffalo hunt -- assuming that the hunt was a good one and the team delivered for you -- I think that amount borders on embarrassing. I would also be shocked if the PH actually suggested anything like that for the staff assuming a well run hunt. If you assume just a tracker, a driver, a cook, a skinner, a camp assistant, a waiter and a game scout, that works out to less than $15.00/person. That is the tip on a $100 meal for good, friendly service. I am all for not going over board, but by the same token, at some point a tip is so small that a handshake and a thank you are actually more meaningful.

I was just kidding about that amount,but respect anyone who decides that it is a fair amount.Also anyone can say here that they tipped all sorts but no one except he and the PH or staff know the truth..

On my first trip: 10 days-quite happy: $800.00 to PH $150.00 to skinner tracker. On ny second trip: 7 days, again quite happy: $600.00 to PH $100.00 each to skinner /tracker, and same to game scout. Cheers, Luke

I have to agree with Larry Shores on page 1. When you start to get up to 21+ day DG safaris a 10% tip is silly in MHO. Around $100 per day for the PH is more than adequate for the PH regardless of length of safari. I've given $2500 to the PH a couple of times on long safaris and I never noted that they though I was cheap. Larry's overall tip of $3500 is about right in my opinion for a first class 21 day safari.

Mark

The wife and I got back from our first trip on august 24. This was a ten-day donation hunt. By choice we hunted for five and two days of travel. Between the two of us we shot five animals. We left Willie $500 cash and two boxes of ammo.
Was this enough?

quote:

I am afraid I do not agree with this at all.

There are two points, which do you not agree with?

1. If you can't afford a big tip for the PH, even if he does a super job, telling him that upfront and offering him something in kind?

2. Not going if you are so poverty-stricken that you can't afford to tip the camp staff?

I think you are saying that tips are optional and thus it's quite OK to go taking no money for tips (or spending all your money on trophies and keeping nothing in reserve). If that is the case, then you have no shame!

I say this because in many industries, this being one of them, salaries are low because all parties know there will be tips. So if you don't tip, you are taking advantage of the underpaid PH and staff, who expect a tip if they do a decent job. You are in effect, taking the goods and not paying the bill.

I can't imagine that someone of your obvious wealth is anything but a generous tipper, so this comment clearly does not apply to you.

Or maybe I misunderstand you, or you me?