Trying to plan my next trip to Namibia and noticed that two of my top PH choices charge a trophy fee for Jackal and Baboon. I kinda have a problem with that as I feel these are nothing but pests to them. If no skinning or other labor is involved, I feel they should take the photo, say thanks and hand me a cold one at the campfire. Maybe I should just look at another PH.
Your thoughts?

in africa everything as a fee attached or it is illegal to kill it

quote:

Originally posted by elkfitter:
Trying to plan my next trip to Namibia and noticed that two of my top PH choices charge a trophy fee for Jackal and Baboon. I kinda have a problem with that as I feel these are nothing but pests to them. If no skinning or other labor is involved, I feel they should take the photo, say thanks and hand me a cold one at the campfire. Maybe I should just look at another PH.
Your thoughts?

Let me sort you out with a hunt...I can offer you Nambia and South Africa. What is it that YOU want from your hunt.....?

O, the Jackal and Baboon can be free, and the cold one afterwards as well......

Please take note that we have to buy permits as from 2007 for Jackal and Baboon, they cost about $9.00 each....The way I see it....if you book a $5-7k hunt with me, I do not have any problem fronting that $18 for your fun and entertainment....

You put a Baboon and Jackal on your wish list as trophies to be exported, and we have to hunt for them......picture changes and you will be charged a trophy fee.....the cold one is still on me though....

Good luck!

www.infinito-safaris.com

elkfitter

I think you'll find that most of the better operators now will charge for everything private property or not. As far as the jackals go they have a beautiful fur coat and it would be a shame to not retrieve the skin.

Mark

If your hunting a government concession there might be a small trophy fee for Jackal and Baboon. Most outfitters will charge a fee if you want it skinned and taken home as a trophy. If I were charged a trophy fee for Jackal or Baboon I voice my disapproval and take the money out of their tips!!

The guy we hunted with in 2005 in Namibia, Van Heerden Safaris, charged nothing for Jackal, Baboon and birds. He actually encouraged us to shoot the varmints. He also provided a shotgun and shells for birds.
If the PH has to pay the government for them, then it's fair for him to charge the dude to shoot. If he is not charged, then it's just a chance for him to make more money.

On my last trip (2007) the farmer (not the PH) did so much complaining about the "bloody" baboons & jackals I felt quilty for not shooting any.

Some of the concessions we hunt up in NW Namibia, I pay for that baboon or jackal. I charge what I am charged, so it will always be on my trophy list. When someone hunts on private property with me, where I sometimes do not pay for these, I give it to the hunter. Also depends on what he is hunting. I had a Mexican chap that wanted to shoot a leopard and a Hartmann's zebra only (on private land), and as soon as he heard thatw e normally do not charge for baboon & jackal, he wanted to take potshots at all we see. (Because its for free.) I did not think its a good idea to fire off several rounds just for the fun of it all over the property, while baiting for leopard, and when he did not understand this reasonble request, I reminded him that on the pricelist he was mailed before the hunt, they cost US$ 50 each. That was the end of his shoot- lust.

Good point Karl

elkfitter, while it may be a fun trip for you , its how we as PHs and safari outfitters make a living.... if you visit a grocery store or restaurant nothing is for free , even the smallest stuff, walmart could certainly give you free gum , its just a few pennies ...

not an atack , just a different perspective ...i agree with mark jackals have great coats its a pity not to retrieve them ...

Last year while hunting with Neuhof Safaris near Gobabis, Namibia we flew down to Gras Namibia Safaris south of Windhoek to take one of Jannie children home. While there for a few hours I went on a hunt for a Springbok and shot about a 15" one. One the way back to camp a Jackal was spotted and I made a really great shot on it at over 200 yards. When I killed the Jackal, Jannie said your Springbok is free. Well, I almost got a shot off at another one as I like the price of free as in not cost. Of course Gras Namibia has an estimated 7000 to 9000 Springbok and the Jackals kill lots of the young ones so they try to kill as many Jackals as possible.

Vaughan Fulton did not charge me for my jackal on my last trip, but I did not know it until I got home and went to settle up with Wendel. I fully expected to be charged somewhere between $50 and $150. His time and effort were expended as well as that of his skinners and such. Why should I not expect to pay? Had I known he was not going to charge me I probably would have given him a bit more of a tip.

As long as you know what the fee is going it who cares? I'm not sure I would let a few hundred dollars stand between me and an outfitter I've finally settled on when my total trip will be somewhere between $6,000 and $10,000.

The place I am hunting in Namibia charges nothing, nada, zero for all the jackal and baboon I can kill. The wife of the owner HATES baboons with a passion (they almost killed her dog) and even goes out by herself some time with a rifle to hunt them. She apparently even bestows a kiss to the hunter for each baboon killed -

The baboons can be very hard on the waterlines. That is one reason a lot of Namibian farmers would like to see their numbers reduced.
- mike

I think elkfitter's original point was that he is, at least in most cases, doing the PH / Landowner a favor by shooting the baboons and jackals. To pay a hefty trophy fee seems to be gouging. I understand that there may be some small government fee associated with these animals in some countries. Nowhere near $50 US or the $150 some outfitters charge. And don't think for a minute that more than a dollar or two (if that) is going to the skinners if you keep the trophy.
I understand the profit motive. I also understand from Karl's post that it can help control some with rather bad manners or appreciation for their actions. But in general, I do look at these charges as an indication of the outfitters level of greed. I have often been encouraged to shoot both baboons and jackals, and generally oblige my host if the situation allows. Being charged more than a nominal fee is bad practice, IMHO. In all but the rarest of situations, let's not pretend that the landowner is actually managing these animals for sport hunting. They would just as soon be rid of every last one - or at least that is the common attitude.

Again, I review the fees for these animals more as an indication of the level of greed on the part of the PH more than anything. If he is trying to gouge me on these animals, I expect he will gouge me elsewhere.

Good post, elkfitter.

Bill

When I go to Namibia, I probably won't choose an outfitter that charges for baboon or jackal if other options are available.

llamapacker hit the nail on the head. The list of possible PH's to hunt with is huge and I need to shorten it. The first ones to get the axe were the ones that charge license/permit fees. The next to go were the ones that charged for skinning for shoulder mounts. Hell this is a hunting trip. No I have eliminated those that charge to hunt vermin (private farms only).

Thanks for all the input.

We paid about 100USD each for our baboons and that money went to the farmer that owned the land. We did a special trip for baboons so we paid normal day fees etc.

And it was worth it.

Jackals aren´t always plentiful -like after an outbreak of rabies- so they shouldn´t be taken for granted.

I also charge for things I do. It´s how I make my living.

If jackals and baboons are on your trophy list I think you should pay for them. The PH, trackers, and skinners must find them, get you into position for the shot, and skin and prepare the trophy for you. You are using their time and effort and it's only right to compensate them for it.

Culling vermin at the request of the PH is a different matter. This, IMO, should not be charged for, except the skinning fee if you want to keep the trophy.

When I'm PG hunting in Namibia jackals and baboons are usually only secondary trophies of opportunity. If I'm on the spoor of a gold medal kudu I'm not going to take pot shots at every jackal or baboon that comes along and alert every kudu for miles around.

When not on a hot track and we spot a jackal the PH may offer me the shot - and that's free. If I want to keep the pelt then there is a fee for skinning it. I've never offered to skin the jackal myself to save on the skinning fee.

Often times, while at a braai, we'll see jackals trying to get at the springbok. That's good sport trying to pick them off with the .222 or .308. Those shots have never been charged for.

If it bothers you that a PH would charge you for his time and effort hunting vermin then don't hunt with that PH. I think that the feeling will be mutual.

Namibiahunter

quote:

Originally posted by elkfitter:
llamapacker hit the nail on the head. The list of possible PH's to hunt with is huge and I need to shorten it. The first ones to get the axe were the ones that charge license/permit fees. The next to go were the ones that charged for skinning for shoulder mounts. Hell this is a hunting trip. No I have eliminated those that charge to hunt vermin (private farms only).

Thanks for all the input.

Next on your list should be PH who charge a daily fee.

How about those who charge you for transport from the airport and back to it?

I am sorry, but I think this is the wrong attitude.

I would prefer to be charged for everything, with reasonable charges.

Rather than expect the PH to foot the bills for something, and try to recover that by over-charging on others.

Some people try to go to Africa by squeezing as much off the cost as they can.

They then expect to have a 5-star treatement all the way.

I can assure you it has never happened this way, and is not likely to happen in the future either.

Like evrything in life, you get what you pay for.

Jackals and baboons are strictly a target of opportunity to me. Not on my trophy list. My last trip I had several opportunities but only took one shot so as not to ruin chances at other game that was on my list. The PH is being paid it's called a daily fee, it's not like I want to just go hunt vermin. Again just a measure of the PH wanting to nickel and dime me. I see all these extra fees with some and it makes one wonder what's next.

Saeed,
I have no problem with the day fees, airport transfer, site seeing or shopping trips or any charges of that nature. I do have a problem with being charged a skinning fee added to the trophy fee that I see with some PH's. Being in the hunting business here in the states I would never charge a client for shooting a coyote, stray cat or any other vermin, I would thank him. After all it is his hunt and he is doing me a favor shooting pests.

namibiahunter,

I like the way you think. First up some of the farms or propeties we hunt on charge for baboon, monkey and jackal and others not. So what do you put on your pricelist ?

Free if you shoot it on this farm. $50.00 on that one and $150.00 on that one ? Not a good looking pricelist is it.

Contact the outfitter ask him about it, see if he has places where he does not have to pay for the vermin.

Then when hunting keep ask him if it's one of the properties that you could shoot vermin for free.

The last thing an outfitter wants is to loose business just because you have a price on your vermin. There is no harm in asking.

But what we cannot get away from is the required paperwork to export them and that must be done before the hunt commences.
Even if it's cheap it still costs phone calls and picking up the permits. (Time) And for that ladies and gentleman we have to charge, like anybody else who makes a living.

The great folks I hunted with in Namibia have an "official" fee of 55 Euros for each jackal and baboon. However, they charged us nothing and encouraged us to kill all we wanted. They explained that they have had some tightwad hunters who, if no fee is charged, will look at all of the kudus, gemsbok, springbok, zebras, etc., but never fire a shot except except at "free" baboons and jackals. As a result, they list a charge to discourage the cheapskates, but are happy for hunters who are generating decent revenues for them by shooting a number of trophies to shoot all of the free vermin they wish.

They did charge a standard 10 Euro fee for tips for the farm hands who processed the trophies if you wanted a baboon skull or jackal skin. I can hardly complain about that! Would you decapitate, clean, boil, and bleach a baboon skull for $14.50?

Like Saeed said, you get what you pay for. I have never complained about paying too much for a quality hunt, but I yell like a scalded baboon if I pay too little and get what I paid for...

quote:

Originally posted by elkfitter:
Trying to plan my next trip to Namibia and noticed that two of my top PH choices charge a trophy fee for Jackal and Baboon. I kinda have a problem with that as I feel these are nothing but pests to them. If no skinning or other labor is involved, I feel they should take the photo, say thanks and hand me a cold one at the campfire. Maybe I should just look at another PH.
Your thoughts?

The rules from country to country differ some license fees are ridicules in one country and in others there is no fee for the same animal.

I must have the highest charges / trophy fees for baboons in Africa and I made it this high on purpose for multiple reasons!

If you shoot at every chance at baboons you disturb all the other animals.

Baboons are clever and if they react nervous other animals will be acting the same way.

In unfenced wilderness areas baboons numbers are normally not a problem and do not increase in numbers to become a problem.

Can do you define any natural occurring animal as vermin in these wilderness areas?
I think not, except maybe some two legged ones.

Lastly Baboons, are primates and require a CITES permit to be exported! To get this in Mozambique is a very time consuming procedure! Time is money!

Jackals are protected in Mozambique and can not be shot!

And believe me you don’t want to hunt on a property where every day vermin gets shot you will have your work cut out to get a good kudu or any good trophy animal except you can shoot very fast and have lots of luck.

And one more thing I don’t always charge the client trophy fee for baboon

I shot jackals and baboon in Namibia for free. I think they charged a small trophy fee, like $25 if you wanted to send back a hide, etc. This probably was just to cover the hassle of skinning, packing, etc. They seemed to really want some baboons killed, and they had been shot at a lot, were as wild as coyotes in Mo.

On my last hunt in South Africa this past September, My PH told me early in the hunt that if I shot at a Jackal and missed, I would owe him $200. If I killed a Jackal, it would cost me nothing.

However, my taxidermist won't like what my .375 Ultra Mag did to the Jackal.

My baboon fee was only $100. If I get the full mount, it will cost ten times that. More if my wife carries out her threat to leave if it goes in our house.

Um, you'll have to pay for the jackal and we have a limited jackal quota, but you can shoot as many baboons as you want for free with Roger Whittall Safaris. Reasonable daily rate and you can go wild, shooting baboons all day long for as many days as you like. RWS has a client who returns each year, only to shoot baboons. Last year he shot a record 140. We feed them to the crocs. There are way too many baboons in Zimbabwe's wildlife areas and people should be actively encouraged to shoot them, for free! Too many baboons in an area have a devastating effect on ground nesting birds and other creatures.

Dave

At $100 a pop, you could shoot 500 baboons for the price of one Tanzania lion! And the baboons would not have to be six years old.

Why would you expect Namibia to be any different in regards to jackals and baboons than SA or Zim. Someone still has to handle them, you can disrupt your trophy hunting, and if you actually hunt specifically for them they can be quite challenging and time consuming(baboons in particular).
Why begrudge a small fee for the opportunity? I haven't seen many that charge much more than $25 for the fees, and many more that don't charge anything. If it is still a concern, discuss it with your outfitter or ph of choice. I wouldn't expect it to be a sticking point for them, since it is their livelihood, I'd think they would be more than accomodating.

Baboons are royal game!

I love killing their lot, nothing else in Africa is as much fun.

My skinner in Namibia told me the baboon I shot was his evil cousin. Not something I repeat in a mixed crowd, causes unecessary tensions no matter how funny it was.

I was encouraged to shoot any jackal I saw as a target of opportunity for no charge. I was also told that I could shoot any Cheetah I saw at no charge since I couldn't import into the US. Unfortunately I didn't see any Cheetahs.

The places I hunted in RSA and Namibia posted a fee for monkeys, jackals, baboons, and caracals-but would not charge for them unless you wanted them to skin them out.

Never seen a free caracal. That would be a bargain.

I would gladly pay to HUNT varmints, but would expect to SHOOT them for a nominal fee or free if they are a chance target & pest whilst pursuing other game.



(Did I use "whilst" correctly? Never really use that word, thought I would try it out! )