Hello all,

I have a bit of a break now untill next week, and thought I would catch up with the rest of the hunting world.

The only thing I heard about AR was when I heard someone in the Kruger Park say something about Rhino poaching and news on the "Accurate Loading Internet Forums"....

Any case, the reason of this post is to inform the hunting public a bit more on the status of Leopard hunting in South Africa, specific Limpopo Province.

As a committee member of the Limpopo Hunters Liaison Forum I attended a meeting where a whole set of new rules and regulations were proposed to government, on the 22'nd of August 2010. One of the ideas behind this push towards better regulation was done to stop fingers being pointed at South African outfitters for hunting the spotted cats illegally, and to streamline the administrative process of Leopard permit applications.

I for one was very surprised when government insinuated that Leopards were being caught in cage traps in South Africa and moved to hunting locations in Zimbabwe and Mozambique, and vice versa from Namibia to South Africa. Insinuation turned to outright accusation, but of course no info was given as they are clearly busy with a big investigation against outfitters in South Africa, Namibia, Zimbabwe, Zambia and Mozambique. I will not be surprised if a string of arrests will follow in the next couple of months regarding this. Apparently hair samples are being taken at taxidermists all over the country to determine the origin of the cats (Do not know how they want to prove that). You hear these stories and we laugh and joke about it, but I never thought there were people actually doing it in such a very organized way.

Very good news is the large number of Leopard being reported throughout the whole province. Phillip Bronkhorst had a report from outfitters and PH’s in their area, complete with Google earth map presentations and Trail cam photos. It was heart warming to see the amount of effort, at their own cost, some outfitters went through to get a proper report together for government. It was also interesting to note the large amount of cats that was shot in the twilight hours, instead of darkness.

I for one honestly believe that if we were to draw a tag for 2011, we would shoot our leopard in daylight, without the aid of a lamp. Currently we have 6 different cats on three of our concessions.

Is the face of Leopard hunting in South Africa changing? I honestly believe so. In 2010 approx. 60 Leopard were successfully and legally hunted by foreign hunters in the LIMPOPO province. There is a big move to name and shame operators that are not doing things the way they should. This feeling corresponds with PHASA’s big drive to get more PH’s and Outfitters to join the organization, and to oust the “bad guys” amongst us.

The AGM of the LHLF and the government agency, LEDET, will be held on the 29’Th of October 2010 in Polo wane. The new rules and regulations will be presented to the industry. I am hunting down in the Cape and cannot attend the meeting, but feel free to PM or e-mail me if you would like to go and I will forward details. Cost of the day is R100.00 per person to help cover the cost of the function.

Enjoy your break and thank you for the report!

Whether or not RSA officials can make any prosecutions remains to be seen, of course, but I'd think the fact that an investagation is in progress might well stop some of the illegal behavior.

Good luck on obtaining a permit for one of those leopards!

quote:

for one was very surprised when government insinuated that Leopards were being caught in cage traps in South Africa and moved to hunting locations in Zimbabwe and Mozambique, and vice versa from Namibia to South Africa. Insinuation turned to outright accusation, but of course no info was given as they are clearly busy with a big investigation against outfitters in South Africa, Namibia, Zimbabwe, Zambia and Mozambique. I will not be surprised if a string of arrests will follow in the next couple of months regarding this. Apparently hair samples are being taken at taxidermists all over the country to determine the origin of the cats (Do not know how they want to prove that). You hear these stories and we laugh and joke about it, but I never thought there were people actually doing it in such a very organized way.

This is another reason why i NOT hunt in South Africa or with an South Afican PH anymore.

Huh?

I respectfully disagree with your attitude. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but, as for me, my brush is not that broad. I know many South Africans who are of integrity, Charl, among them.

While I usually book directly with a P.H. in the subject country, I'd not hesitate hunt with a RSA citizen if he's licensed in that country or associated with a legitimate "in country" P.H. and if all legalities are met. It may even mean (in Zim, for instance) that the RSA P.H. is just a "super" observer of sorts, but there is a huge difference in smuggling leopards and arranging a safari in another country and "tagging" along.

And, if you are not going to hunt somewhere because of some crooks that frequent/live in a certain country, what about Zim, Mozambique, Namibia and Zambia where the RSA culprits have to have cohorts? At least RSA is apparently trying to do something about the problem (and with Rhinos, too.)

quote:

Originally posted by mboga biga bwana:

This is another reason why i NOT hunt in South Africa or with an South Afican PH anymore.

I know leopards are caught in traps within South Africa and then transported to hunting areas within RSA. This activity was admitted to me by the Vet on my darted rhino hunt, but is this sort of thing actually going on between countries? That seems a bit of a stretch to me.

I cannot see Zambia importing Leopards as we are struggling to get rid of the damn things. The country is stiff with them.

Thank you JudgeG,

Protest from our side might have sounded defensive

Sure your government said Leopards and not Lepers?

I know a few people from RSA and they are head and shoulders above as far as honesty and integrity. so I would not place all people from the RSA in one category just like I would not categorize anyone else you meet in life

Like anything in life you have the good, the bad and the ugly. That said, there are MANY excellent outfitters/PH's to be found in South Africa. Just do your homework before you book a hunt.

quote:

Posted Oct 22, 7:33 PM Hide Post
Like anything in life you have the good, the bad and the ugly. That said, there are MANY excellent outfitters/PH's to be found in South Africa. Just do your homework before you book a hunt.

~Ann

I agree with Ann 100%. I have tracked and hunted Leopard in RSA with very reputable PH's and had zero questions about their integrity or fair chase ethics. Much of this is Internet BS, started by a rumor then as Judge says: paints a broad brush. That's unjust to many honorable hunters in all of soutnern Africa.
LDK

I know that in RSA many game ranches treat leopards as vermin. Some of them allow visiting hunters to shoot them on sight. I know a guy who worked for quite a few years on photographic tours and he said that there was no problem getting a leopard but I could not take any part of the animal. I spoke to a PH who organizes hunts in RSA and he told me the same - "you shoot a leopard and we take a whole lot of pictures and then we dig a hole & bury it". He was trying to sell me a PG hunt with a free leopard as a carrot!

I am not sure if it is legal for a farm owner or a manager to shoot a leopard on his property OR if it is legal for a visitor to shoot one either.

To blame an industry, a race or a nation is ridiculously misinformed but without meaning t o insult anyone, frankly, no more ridiculously misinformed than one or two of the comments here.

It's undeniable that the sport leopard hunting scene in SA has been wide open to abuse of every sort by the unethical for many years and in fact, in many cases actually encourages dodgy dealings but Charl's post makes it clear they're trying to improve matters...... as far as I'm concerned, the only way they'll achieve that is to completely change the system of issuing licences.

I wish Charl the best of luck in his endeavours but I reckon he's gonna have his work cut out!

As always a fun affair when posting anything on big cats and South Africa on AR.

I would like to respond in broad terms.

Ladies and Gentleman, these cats are allegedly being shipped between countries to make sure a cat is hunted, so is it South African PH’s and Outfitters only to blame. Do not be so bloody naïve Sir. Do you know when people start dealing on the wrong side of the law? It is when times are tough, and it does not get tougher in our industry than now. I think it is fantastic that our industry is trying to clean ship from within itself as well.

I did not believe it myself, it seemed a bit far fetched, but the case they make seems to be watertight.

Steve: we changed a lot, and much of those changes comes from the Namibian system.

So my question:

I am an open book, here on AR and the public profile I keep in the hunting industry (I do not hide in dark corners.) I make a living out of hunting and could have made much more in a law office. I’m stating this to give you my Bona Fides as an outfitter and PH.

So if I offer a free ranging Leopard on our 15,000 acre reserve in the mountains, to be shot in day time, what makes it so different from any other country? Because I can tell you this. If we get a tag for 2011, my challenge will be to shoot a cat in day light hours without the assistance of a light.

Steve, and to make you happy, I will charge a nominal day rate and a huge trophy fee, to ensure the client only pays big money if he actualy draws blood. We will also offer this first to AR members, as we get the draw results before we go to the shows, and our clients details must be with the government before 1 April 2011.

I’m off hunting those little buggers in the Cape again, so stay safe all!

quote:

Originally posted by infinito:
As always a fun affair when posting anything on big cats and South Africa on AR.

I would like to respond in broad terms.

Ladies and Gentleman, these cats are allegedly being shipped between countries to make sure a cat is hunted, so is it South African PH’s and Outfitters only to blame. Do not be so bloody naïve Sir. Do you know when people start dealing on the wrong side of the law? It is when times are tough, and it does not get tougher in our industry than now. I think it is fantastic that our industry is trying to clean ship from within itself as well.

I did not believe it myself, it seemed a bit far fetched, but the case they make seems to be watertight.

Steve: we changed a lot, and much of those changes comes from the Namibian system.

So my question:

I am an open book, here on AR and the public profile I keep in the hunting industry (I do not hide in dark corners.) I make a living out of hunting and could have made much more in a law office. I’m stating this to give you my Bona Fides as an outfitter and PH.

So if I offer a free ranging Leopard on our 15,000 acre reserve in the mountains, to be shot in day time, what makes it so different from any other country? Because I can tell you this. If we get a tag for 2011, my challenge will be to shoot a cat in day light hours without the assistance of a light.

Steve, and to make you happy, I will charge a nominal day rate and a huge trophy fee, to ensure the client only pays big money if he actualy draws blood. We will also offer this first to AR members, as we get the draw results before we go to the shows, and our clients details must be with the government before 1 April 2011.

I’m off hunting those little buggers in the Cape again, so stay safe all!

Charl,

I hope you realise I wasn't having a pop at you at all..... I just meant that you'll have your work cut out for you in cleaning things up..... Mind you, I'd say if you're using the Namibian system as something to aim for then you'll probably end up with even more of a headache.......

As far as being surprised some cats might be trapped and moved...... I'm not at all surprised at that and would say it could well be the tip of the iceberg.

And hey, you can price your hunts any way you like mate....... However you do it, won't affect my happiness levels! - If you want to affect my happiness levels, feel free to send a few bottles of Ardbeg Islay malt whisky or next week's winning lottery numbers to me!

I've just got to say that some of the best people I know live in RSA. I've hunted all over and hunting with good friends in RSA is still one of my favorite places. This problem is NOT a reflection on many operations in RSA. Its sad that this sort of thing has people looking cross-eyed at RSA...the most stable, and undoubtedly the most safe of all southern african countries. I know...I know...what about xyz. Whatever.

Charl,

I hope you realise I wasn't having a pop at you at all..... I just meant that you'll have your work cut out for you in cleaning things up..... Mind you, I'd say if you're using the Namibian system as something to aim for then you'll probably end up with even more of a headache.......

As far as being surprised some cats might be trapped and moved...... I'm not at all surprised at that and would say it could well be the tip of the iceberg.

And hey, you can price your hunts any way you like mate....... However you do it, won't affect my happiness levels! - If you want to affect my happiness levels, feel free to send a few bottles of Ardbeg Islay malt whisky or next week's winning lottery numbers to me! [/QUOTE]

No worries mate, I was just referring to our previous dance around this topic where the topic of crooked SA leopard PH's came up.

Not a good year for such good whiskey I'm affraid.

From the colder Cape.

Charl,

I'm glad to see you're taking as crack at sorting it out.

As for the weather..... be grateful for the cold. We had 42C up here last week and I'm told Hoedspruit had close to 50C!

Hi All
You know these things work both ways.


I have found that the foreign clients, that are most willing to participate in these dealings, like canned hunts or illegal Leopard hunts, are Americans.

Personally the best hunters I know are still the Americans and I would not judge all Americans because of the few with a bad name.

Like South Africa, when there is a large population of People lots of Bad apples comes forth.