Not really bashing SCI per say.
Just thinking, What a waste of money, resources and chest thumping all in one sorry bag
Gimme a break gentlemen

Didn't even open mine.
Straight into file 13.

It is disgusting.

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
Not really bashing SCI per say.
Just thinking, What a waste of money, resources and chest thumping all in one sorry bag
Gimme a break gentlemen

I believe the award recipients fund the award program - not the general membership.

I enjoy the SCI mag, but the awards edition does not even get out of the plastic. Not why I hunt. However, I do not oppose anyone who is into that sort of stuff.

Glanced at it. Now in the can.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
Not really bashing SCI per say.
Just thinking, What a waste of money, resources and chest thumping all in one sorry bag
Gimme a break gentlemen

I believe the award recipients fund the award program - not the general membership.

True but it makes us look bad.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
It is disgusting.

Agreed. Did not open it....

Laughable, and that's putting it nicely.

It did have a good looking cover!

Still like SCI , just wish they put the money in this case to something more useful, especially in latest climate
I also understand, they do a lot for us

The ME ME ME ME mentality of SCI will never change.

Sadly, they do not apply the same attention and dedication to actually doing something useful for us as hunters.

They really should change their motto to

FIRST FOR THE SELF GLORIFYING NON-HUNTERS!

It will fit right in with the image they are creating!

Unless every single nitwit running it from headquarters is given the boot!

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
Not really bashing SCI per say.
Just thinking, What a waste of money, resources and chest thumping all in one sorry bag
Gimme a break gentlemen

I believe the award recipients fund the award program - not the general membership.

True but it makes us look bad.

Perhaps it does - but it has also been responsible for a lot of hunts and hunting taking place that wouldn't have otherwise. You wont hear too many outfitters complaining about their clients chasing these awards. Just saying...

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
Not really bashing SCI per say.
Just thinking, What a waste of money, resources and chest thumping all in one sorry bag
Gimme a break gentlemen

I believe the award recipients fund the award program - not the general membership.

True but it makes us look bad.

Perhaps it does - but it has also been responsible for a lot of hunts and hunting taking place that wouldn't have otherwise. You wont hear too many outfitters complaining about their clients chasing these awards. Just saying...

Dead right!

Especially the whole industry started specifically to cater for this sick sort of hunting.

I am talking about the PHs and outfitters who specialize in buying animals and transporting them to any required location so our "hunter" pops up and kill it just so he can get into one of those sorry CIRCLE SCI is so fond of!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
Not really bashing SCI per say.
Just thinking, What a waste of money, resources and chest thumping all in one sorry bag
Gimme a break gentlemen

I believe the award recipients fund the award program - not the general membership.

True but it makes us look bad.

Perhaps it does - but it has also been responsible for a lot of hunts and hunting taking place that wouldn't have otherwise. You wont hear too many outfitters complaining about their clients chasing these awards. Just saying...

Dead right!

Especially the whole industry started specifically to cater for this sick sort of hunting.

I am talking about the PHs and outfitters who specialize in buying animals and transporting them to any required location so our "hunter" pops up and kill it just so he can get into one of those sorry CIRCLE SCI is so fond of!

What !!!!! I thought everyone is in hunting for the sake of conservation.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
Not really bashing SCI per say.
Just thinking, What a waste of money, resources and chest thumping all in one sorry bag
Gimme a break gentlemen

I believe the award recipients fund the award program - not the general membership.

True but it makes us look bad.

Perhaps it does - but it has also been responsible for a lot of hunts and hunting taking place that wouldn't have otherwise. You wont hear too many outfitters complaining about their clients chasing these awards. Just saying...

Actually , I have heard a lot of PH's complain about record book hunters.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
Not really bashing SCI per say.
Just thinking, What a waste of money, resources and chest thumping all in one sorry bag
Gimme a break gentlemen

I believe the award recipients fund the award program - not the general membership.

True but it makes us look bad.

Perhaps it does - but it has also been responsible for a lot of hunts and hunting taking place that wouldn't have otherwise. You wont hear too many outfitters complaining about their clients chasing these awards. Just saying...

Actually , I have heard a lot of PH's complain about record book hunters.

I have never met a single PH who did not complain about record book idiots1

I could never call them hunters!

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
Not really bashing SCI per say.
Just thinking, What a waste of money, resources and chest thumping all in one sorry bag
Gimme a break gentlemen

I believe the award recipients fund the award program - not the general membership.

True but it makes us look bad.

Perhaps it does - but it has also been responsible for a lot of hunts and hunting taking place that wouldn't have otherwise. You wont hear too many outfitters complaining about their clients chasing these awards. Just saying...

Actually , I have heard a lot of PH's complain about record book hunters.

That is from a slightly different perspective though. I bet they dont knock back the clients who say they are looking for XYZ species to complete some silly award.

Do you accept Larry that a lot of hunting (hence conservation) takes place because of the SCI 'hunt the world' ideal?

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

I have never met a single PH who did not complain about record book idiots1

I could never call them hunters!

Lip service.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

I have never met a single PH who did not complain about record book idiots1

I could never call them hunters!

Lip service.

Or shows the quality of PHs I hunt with

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
Not really bashing SCI per say.
Just thinking, What a waste of money, resources and chest thumping all in one sorry bag
Gimme a break gentlemen

I believe the award recipients fund the award program - not the general membership.

True but it makes us look bad.

Perhaps it does - but it has also been responsible for a lot of hunts and hunting taking place that wouldn't have otherwise. You wont hear too many outfitters complaining about their clients chasing these awards. Just saying...

Actually , I have heard a lot of PH's complain about record book hunters.

That is from a slightly different perspective though. I bet they dont knock back the clients who say they are looking for XYZ species to complete some silly award.

Do you accept Larry that a lot of hunting (hence conservation) takes place because of the SCI 'hunt the world' ideal?

It is entirely possible Matt. I have friends who want to take as many species as possible . Other do what they like. I fall in the latter category.

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
Not really bashing SCI per say.
Just thinking, What a waste of money, resources and chest thumping all in one sorry bag
Gimme a break gentlemen

Go ahead and bash SCI. A whole glossy magazine not worth reading.

I just got my renewal notice for SCI membership yesterday. Guess where it went. In the trash.

I actually took about 15 minutes and flipped through it. If we want SCI to change we need a good understanding of what needs to change and the mentality that goes along with it.

It would be an interesting statistic to know the number of SCI members who have never self aggrandized themselves with an award expressed as a percentage of the overall membership. Express this as a percentage and they would see that it is not nearly as popular as they think.

That alone should help them with getting rid of this nauseating ego-centric crap.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
I actually took about 15 minutes and flipped through it. If we want SCI to change we need a good understanding of what needs to change and the mentality that goes along with it.

It would be an interesting statistic to know the number of SCI members who have never self aggrandized themselves with an award expressed as a percentage of the overall membership. Express this as a percentage and they would see that it is not nearly as popular as they think.

That alone should help them with getting rid of this nauseating ego-centric crap.

Jeff

Jeff,

You are talking from a normal hunter's perspective, not from SCI's management perspective.

These two are world apart.

SCI has been so blinded by their own self importance, they no longer see the reality of what hunting is.

If you don't believe me, just remember how long have normal members been complaining about this very thing.

Has anyone listened?

Never.

They need a total change of attitude, and that is not going to happen with the sort of people it attracts to the top.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
I actually took about 15 minutes and flipped through it. If we want SCI to change we need a good understanding of what needs to change and the mentality that goes along with it.

It would be an interesting statistic to know the number of SCI members who have never self aggrandized themselves with an award expressed as a percentage of the overall membership. Express this as a percentage and they would see that it is not nearly as popular as they think.

That alone should help them with getting rid of this nauseating ego-centric crap.

Jeff

Jeff,

You are talking from a normal hunter's perspective, not from SCI's management perspective.

These two are world apart.

SCI has been so blinded by their own self importance, they no longer see the reality of what hunting is.

If you don't believe me, just remember how long have normal members been complaining about this very thing.

Has anyone listened?

Never.

They need a total change of attitude, and that is not going to happen with the sort of people it attracts to the top.

Saeed,

You may be correct. I often get myself into trouble applying logic and rational thought.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
I actually took about 15 minutes and flipped through it. If we want SCI to change we need a good understanding of what needs to change and the mentality that goes along with it.

It would be an interesting statistic to know the number of SCI members who have never self aggrandized themselves with an award expressed as a percentage of the overall membership. Express this as a percentage and they would see that it is not nearly as popular as they think.

That alone should help them with getting rid of this nauseating ego-centric crap.

Jeff

SCI already knows that it isnt that popular. Doesn't mean they will stop it though - unless members (reps) vote to have it taken down or reduced.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
That is from a slightly different perspective though. I bet they dont knock back the clients who say they are looking for XYZ species to complete some silly award.

Do you accept Larry that a lot of hunting (hence conservation) takes place because of the SCI 'hunt the world' ideal?

It is entirely possible Matt. I have friends who want to take as many species as possible . Other do what they like. I fall in the latter category.

So do I Larry. But if other members want to partake at their own expense - they can have at it.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

I have never met a single PH who did not complain about record book idiots1

I could never call them hunters!

Lip service.

Or shows the quality of PHs I hunt with

Bah, nonsense - they are complaining about generic 'record book idiots' behind their backs.

It's a bit like the captive bred lion thing... I have friends and clients who have shot one; to say they have done it, ticking-off a list, for bragging rights or whatever. No I wouldn't do it myself in ten lifetimes - but I sure wouldn't talk down to them or try to stop them doing it.

Saeed - I think you are rather selective in the activities that you condemn.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

I have never met a single PH who did not complain about record book idiots1

I could never call them hunters!

Lip service.

Or shows the quality of PHs I hunt with

Bah, nonsense - they are complaining about generic 'record book idiots' behind their backs.

It's a bit like the captive bred lion thing... I have friends and clients who have shot one; to say they have done it, ticking-off a list, for bragging rights or whatever. No I wouldn't do it myself in ten lifetimes - but I sure wouldn't talk down to them or try to stop them doing it.

Saeed - I think you are rather selective in the activities that you condemn.

Please show me where I have been selective??

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

I have never met a single PH who did not complain about record book idiots1

I could never call them hunters!

Lip service.

Or shows the quality of PHs I hunt with

Bah, nonsense - they are complaining about generic 'record book idiots' behind their backs.

It's a bit like the captive bred lion thing... I have friends and clients who have shot one; to say they have done it, ticking-off a list, for bragging rights or whatever. No I wouldn't do it myself in ten lifetimes - but I sure wouldn't talk down to them or try to stop them doing it.

Saeed - I think you are rather selective in the activities that you condemn.

Please show me where I have been selective??

You say elsewhere that you don't care what hunters do, so long as it is legal.... but that tolerance doesn't extend to SCI members who want to give themselves these 'awards'.

Matt,

I applaud you for holding your ground.

If the SCI is going to have enough money to initiate significant conservation programs, lobby effectively for hunter rights with our governments, and file counter law suits against those who would take away our hunting rights, they need to raise money - and, lots of it!

It takes tons of money to pay high-dollar lawyers and lobbyists to work on our behalf.

The SCI awards program is another means of raising money from the members to pay for these activities.

Yes, the awards program plays on our vanity; but, we humans are vane creatures – and that includes the nay sayers posting here. Do the nay sayers have better ideas on how to raise money - I haven't heard them.

I say so what; it's not that big a deal, if someone enjoys getting an award.

We hunters spend most of our days defending our sport from those who vilify us as perverted sadists. In fact, it's a breath of fresh air to have an occasional award – something positive – for enjoying our hunting activities.

People constantly reward themselves for all sorts of other human activities - why not hunting.

AIU

Gents:
To those of you who didn't open the magazine, why be a member at all? SCI does a few thing good, but the disdain they have for the general membership (who funds their chest thumping attitudes) is unpardonable. Dump the bastards and join DSC!
But, just my opinion.
Cal

I agree with everything you are saying AIU. My problem with it is that the awards make us look bad.

quote:

You say elsewhere that you don't care what hunters do, so long as it is legal.... but that tolerance doesn't extend to SCI members who want to give themselves these 'awards'.

quote:

Reply

While I agree 100% with Saeed on the SCI issues, the same intolerance is directed toward Mark Sullivan.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I agree with everything you are saying AIU. My problem with it is that the awards make us look bad.

It MIGHT make us look bad if other hunters crow enough about it till the anti's pick it up and run with it.

Like I say, it's like the RSA lions thing ... "canned hunting" was a term concocted and promoted by other hunters, hell bent on denigrating their fellows. Now the antis picked up on that division and are using it to their own ends, very successfully.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Gents:
To those of you who didn't open the magazine, why be a member at all? SCI does a few thing good, but the disdain they have for the general membership (who funds their chest thumping attitudes) is unpardonable. Dump the bastards and join DSC!
But, just my opinion.
Cal

I agree, and did so 5 years ago.

While not as "glitzy" as SCI as far as awards, doesn't DSC offer awards also? (rhetorical question)

Most of the circle thing has to do with collecting.

I don't have a problem with it. I also don't have a problem with the record book. Quite frankly, I think it serves to keep some operators honest, although SCI could do a better job of weeding out the dishonest folks about fair chase.

The awards issue openly says that the awards are the idea of McElroy as a way to get money for conservation while "having fun"... Now we can argue about how efficient SCI is and how it could be done better, but I honestly don't see what harm is in it in and of itself (as long as one gets rid of abuses) and as Matt says, it probably got many to attempt to hunt places they otherwise would not.

For me, until I went to SCI I had no idea of the number and variety of asian mountain game. Now, some day I would like to take a trip over there and hunt some of them. I dunno if that is a "positive" to SCI, but it seems to be a positive for me.

What I am trying to say is that in this fallen world, anything that man says or does can be corrupted somehow...It is human nature, as sad as it seems. While we need to try and clean up what we can, no one should expect perfection from humans.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I agree with everything you are saying AIU. My problem with it is that the awards make us look bad.

It MIGHT make us look bad if other hunters crow enough about it till the anti's pick it up and run with it.

Like I say, it's like the RSA lions thing ... "canned hunting" was a term concocted and promoted by other hunters, hell bent on denigrating their fellows. Now the antis picked up on that division and are using it to their own ends, very successfully.

They have picked it up.

My copy came today and I went through it out of curiosity and because of the firestorm that you all created. I have never entered any animal in the SCI awards program in 12 safaris and in my other hunting in North America and Mexico and likely never will. However, to some, that's their glory-and so be it. But to argue over it here on the internet will do nothing positive and will not change it. It's analogous to bible bashing, in my opinion. All it does is reinforce the antis and their agenda, and thus we are becoming and have become our own worst enemies. Sad deal folks.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
It MIGHT make us look bad if other hunters crow enough about it till the anti's pick it up and run with it.

Like I say, it's like the RSA lions thing ... "canned hunting" was a term concocted and promoted by other hunters, hell bent on denigrating their fellows. Now the antis picked up on that division and are using it to their own ends, very successfully.

They have picked it up.

Where mate? I have seen some very minor references to it but certainly nothing directly related to SCI in any serious media. Social media waffle is just as likely to be hunters themselves moaning... as we can see right here in this thread.

We have some of the same here in Australia - but it is mostly local hunters bitching about the opportunities that the 'rich' get.

They all do a lots of good things for hunters, except sometimes they seem to loose sight of bigger picture.
I think, all organizations after they get a bit bigger for their britches, do that.
Bit of human nature where with money comes appetite. None of us are that much different
I wish, they would sometimes think a bit ahead of their actions for the team instead of selected few...