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Let's say that a PH offers plains game hunting at a rate of $500/day and hunting for an exotic animal like a Roan, Sable, Bongo, etc. for a rate of $1,000/day (plus trophy fees) So you book a PG hunt with the outfitter ($500/day) and the PH is hunting on farms that he does not own with a business deal with the farm owner. Let's say that you meet the farmer while you're there and the farmer takes a liking to you and offers you a free Roan, Sable, Bongo etc. What would you expect the PH to charge you for this? Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | ||
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Bongo are not farmed as far as I know. But, looking at roan and sable in the situation you outlined, the $500 daily should still be in effect. The PH would be way out of line if he tried to increase the daily rate. Usually the higher daily rates are due to limited availability, or in the case of dangerous game, danger and increased cost due to location. Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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I would only expect the PH to reduce the daily fees by the amount of the land use fees. John | |||
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The PH should charge you nothing. Mike Never under estimate the internet community to use any opportunity to reply to a post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence problem.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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The PH should not increase his daily fees. But, I would imagine you owe the PH something, as he was the one who got you there, and it might be a good idea to show your appreciation. That way you would have had your extra animal, and made friends of both the farmer and yor PH. | |||
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I agree. The PH/Outfitter is still doing HIS job, and transporting you, feeding you, etc. and should be compensated. The land owner waives only HIS fees. | |||
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Thanks for the opinions. What if the Farmer gave you a free Buffalo? Would the change to a DG hunt change anything else? Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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The PH has contracted with the landowner to pay the landowner X for each roan or Y for each sable you shoot. You have contracted with the PH to pay him X plus his unknown "markup" for each roan or Y plus his markup for each sable you shoot. First of all, the landowner should tell the PH, not you, that he wants to make a gift to you of the animal since it is the PH with whom he has a contract. Then the PH should tell you that the landowner wishes to "do something nice for you" and the trophy fee will be "Z", Z being the amount, if any, that the PH feels is it appropriate for him charge you as a trophy fee. After all, the "markup" of the trophy fee was part of the PH's income and if he charges nothing then he is foregoing something. The PH may wish to commemnsurate the landowner's gesture and waive his portion of the trophy fee, but that is up to him. There would be no rationale for the PH to charge you anything other than the agreed daily rate since you pay that regardless of what you do or do not shoot. On my last trip, my PH, who also happened to be the landowner, felt that we were shooting and paying for a larger number of animals than his average client (making us more lucretive for him than average), so he waived the (small) trophy fee on jackals and baboons and gifted us an additional springbok and an oryx as thanks for being such good clients. Of course this example is uncomplicated because the landowner and PH were the same person, but we continued to pay the same daily rate regardless of the gifted trophy fees. | |||
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Well, I dunno, I'll consult with the tooth fairy when he comes by to give me my gold brick.  xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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 That's another mouthful of coffee all over my keyboard!On a (very slightly) more serious note, I wouldn't recommend you hold you breath on someone giving you a free Buffalo/roan etc.  | |||
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That's why the title of the post is "Purely Hypothetical Question" I gave up wishing for the impossible on the second patrol I ever made on a submarine when after 40 days underwater we flooded through a failed ventilation induction valve and came within a few hundred feet of being the third US nuclear powered submarine lost at sea. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Purely hypothetical question
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