Hi!

Is there any difference in killing power if you use a caliber .500 (500 NE) or a caliber .450 (458 Lott) and hit the bull with a lung shoot.

Some people said that the 458 Lott kills faster than for example a 500 NE, is that true?

If they use softpoint bullets I think that a 458 Lott expand more than a 500 NE due to the higher velocity.

Is there anyone who have tried both calibers on buff and knew about the difference?

I've seen a fair few Buff shot with lots of calibres and bullet types over the years and IMO once you get into the 416s and up, then the most important factor by far is the bullet type and where it's placed.

I don't believe that there is one single bullet type that will kill all animals really well.... after all the animals are all constructed differently.

Cats for example have thin skins and so a fast expanding bullet such as Win Silvertip works best on them. Buff have thick skins and overlapping ribs and consequently need a slower expanding bullet such as a Barnes X or Woodleigh PSP. Pachyderms obviously need a solid..... but I'm personally wary of some FMJ solids and prefer to see a monolithic solid (in most rifles) I recently saw a 375 H&H trophy bonded FMJ bend like a banana in a chest shot Eland...... Christ knows how it would have performed on an Elephants head!!!!!

However, where the calibres really do show a big difference between them is in stopping charges. Especially at close range.

[ 11-04-2003, 00:00: Message edited by: shakari ]

If both were useing solids then the 500 (.510) would have a bigger frontal area, than a 458 LOTT (.458) makeing a larger hole regardless of the speed difference!

If they were useing soft points with the exact same quality, and hardness, the the speed would have an effect on the amount of expansion. The 500 starting out at .510 dia, and the 458 LOTT starting out at .458, .012 thsnds smaller to start, the difference wouldn't be as much as one would think "IF" the bullet was constructed for the 500 velocities, the 458 LOTT would likely destroy the bullet considerably. If the bullet was structured for the 458 LOTT, then the 500 would likely expand it some, makeing it more than .510 at start, the 458 Lott, since it started smaller, at .458 would have to expand considerably to catch up with the 500's expansion, which started out .012 thounds larger before expansion.

This could take a lot of very intensive experentation, to find a diffinitive answer, but IMO, the 500 NE, in a double, within 100 yds, would be my pick every time, if stopping something was the goal!

I guess it all boils down to take your pick, and live with the result!

My experience pretty much parrallels Steves...I can't tell much difference from 416 and up..even from a stopping power point of view...The bullet is the most important part of the recipe combined with bullet placement, and thats for sure....I do believe the 375 is a capable Buff rifle and a stopper is a bullet in the brain.

the 458 Lott and the 500s are a bigger hammer and thats a fact, but I'm not sure the Buffalo know it!

I personally have knocked more Buffalo down faster with the 404 and the 416 than I did with the 458 Lott and the 505 Gibbs, and I won't even try to figure out why, fluke perhaps, just circumstance perhaps, but I went back to the 40 calibers for that reason.

My one and only instant kill on a Buffalo with a shoulder shot was with a 416 Rem and a 370 gr. Northfork bullet...his chin hit the dirt and he apparantly died instantly..The shot was about 225 yards.

I would not venture to argue with the monster bore clan on this, just passing on my opinnion..

I found this true in NA with the 30-06 on elk, moose and such, it did about as well as the magnums as far as I could tell....especially with 200 and 220 gr. bullets.

The below only relates to Australian Water Buffalo - which are extremely tough and hard to put down
(I am talking LARGE, 8 - 900+kg, 14 years +, NOT 8 year old "Mickey" bulls).

From my experience and from others who have used it extensively, in general first shot
a 500 Nitro haa a bigger visible effect over smaller calibres - even

However like Ray and others, I am a firm believer in the bullet used and bullet placement
over calibre - as Ray said, a 375H&H in the Brain will stop a Buff just as well as a larger calibre
IMHO, the difference is when you don't quite get it right.

In shooting a Buff whith a 500 Nitro, I could see the impact effect along the body.

That's my .02 cents worth.

500 Nitro

Mac, that's a .052" increase, which is more than the difference between .375 & .416 (.041"), more than the difference from .416 to .458 (.042") and more than most are willing to credit, in regard to increased performance. The reason why? Recoil. The .50's are in a class by themselves. Caliber kills .. believe it!

"Caliber Matters":

http://www.nookhill.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=003673

[ 11-04-2003, 13:06: Message edited by: Nickudu ]