USA Today reported that European auto sales are off 9.5%. The TV reported that Harley Davidson sales are off badly, they’ve cut production by tens of thousands of bikes and they are letting many employees go. Everyday there are reports that the worst is yet to come in the credit markets and we haven’t seen the end of write downs or a bottom in the housing market. Our own Kathi offered a Namibian hunt for $2000 + trophy fees, and it took a week to sell it. I know that Zim is toast for the immediate future, but is it realistic to think that transfers from Zim to the surrounding countries will make up for the other shoe falling in our economic soap opera?

I personally think that Tanzania poked the pooch this year when they went up on their concession and trophy fees. I hear that bookings are down; however, it is not reflected in the prices being offered for year end hunts.

I said “no thanks†to what I believe is outfitter and government gouging for animals needed for attainment of SCI goals. I suspect that there are many others who will be saying, “No†to 10 day buff hunts and 5-7 day plains game hunts in Namibia and RSA.

What about a little reality check; an informal poll of the world’s greatest African hunting board?

Question:
1.- Are you reassessing your African hunting plans based upon the economy or increased prices?

Choices:
yes
no

Question:
2.-Are you hunting locally instead?

Choices:
yes
no

Question:
3.-Are you making alternative non-hunting plans?

Choices:
yes
no

Question:
4.-Are you “down-grading†your hunt?

Choices:
yes
no

Question:
5.-Are you postponing your hunt until prices are lower or the economy stronger?

Choices:
yes
no

Question:
6.-What is the primary cause of your decison?

Choices:
Loss of value of the US dollar
High daily rates
High trophy fees
High travel expenses
High costs of trophy shipment/preparation
All of the above

 

While I understand what you are saying, I must admit that the reasons you state are why I am accelerating plans for African hunting. I don't see prices going down, regardless of the US economy, and the ultra rich are mostly recession proof. I suspect that they may hunt more when the economy is bad, as they have more free time away from business pursuits. To be honest, while not ultra rich, my limiting factor is vacation time.

Inflation will also continue to roll on. I think that hunting is probably about as good a value for the money that it ever will be now, and if we hit a bad enough recession to lower prices, the good that has been done by hunters providing a reason to keep the game around will be gone, and the hunting will be poor for decades afterwards.

Good Luck!

cb

Only a few years ago you heard ,You can hunt several African plains game animals for the cost of a good Elk hunt in the US!
Now you pay $2000+ for plane tickets, $300-$600 dipping, $1000-$2000 shipping and $300- $600 clearing fees in the US.
For me trophy fees have increased to the point I have to ask my self do I really want to shoot a Kudu for $1200 -$2400 ? ( I paid $650 in 05 )
I have hunted Africa five times, but with all the increased costs Africa's out of the picture for me .

Since I am paid in Euros, the prices in US Dollars have in some instances actually dropped for me.

Mine was hard to answer. Luckily, I have some non refundable money down on the trip, which is "forcing" me[thank god!] to go. A month ago, I would have canceled, because of some personal set backs for my wife and me. However, its my 1 trip of a lifetime, and I'm going now. However, if I took the poll, after my trip, the answers would be the opposit.

Mad Dog

ps. I probably will send few if any trophies home. My pictures will be my trophies.

quote:

Originally posted by Wink:
Since I am paid in Euros, the prices in US Dollars have in some instances actually dropped for me.

I find the same thing (In different currency), with my actual safari price dropping significantly over the last few years. Half-price safaris have a certain appeal, so I will probably do more than otherwise.I seriously doubt that I'm the only one that has noticed this opportunity.

This topic sucks. I went to Africa in 2005 and am going again next month, but the future looks pretty bad. If the increases continue at the current rate I will be left out do to not being able to outpace inflation. There are other places to go but there is only one Africa.

I'm book for quite a few hunts all over this year and plan on taking each and everyone of them, howver I've already decided to take a break after this. This years hunting adventures will run me around $150,000.00 and counting. I just checked airline prices to Pemco, $4000.00 and I just asked the PH for his camp tip recommendations and they we're about double to what I've given in the past.
I've got a great job and can afford this without any worry but the prices are too the point that I'm questioning DO I WANT TO AFFORD IT.
I have world class hunting in my own back yard, I'm thinking it's time to re-focus my alotted time on Alaska hunting only.

As mentioned above, I'm accelerating my plans because I don't know what the future holds.

Also, agreed with Alaska Hunter on the hunting locally for us. I haven't done enough of that myself. It's still hard for me to justify Alaska guided prices for a single species hunt (much less a combo hunt). Prices here are as high as anywhere else and the camps do not remotely compare to Africa's.

I had a client a few days ago say something to the fact that when African prices came back to reality that he would again consider a safari. Well I suppose that could happen but does anyone expect the cost of your next pick up to be lower because there is a slight slowing of the economy? Prices go up generally with time and if safaris did come down significantly in price it would be as Dr. Butler just said and the hunting would not be as good. Expenses go up to put on safaris every year and the profit that may be begrudged the safari operators is what makes improvement of the concessions, ranches etc possible and increasaes opportunities in new areas.

I guess the bottom line is if you put off a safari now because you find it too expensive thinking you will find a quality expereince later on cheaper you are fooling yourself. What I think you will find is the prices just will be more expensive in the future.

Mark

Definately a sign of the changing economy but the company that I work for is being sold to another so I will be changing employers this summer.

This should not affect me financially but it may change my work schedule and what time off that I have available this year and what time off I get next year.

I have over 40 vacation days on the books with my present company and I don't know if the new company will take that obligation or if my present company will have to buy me out.

It has caused me to put my plan to hunt Namibia on hold for this summer.

Not just trying to be different but if you answer NO to all the questions you cannot answer the last one which does not permit you a vote. I did in fact answer no and they are real answers so what does that mean?

kudude,

You picked the wrong blonde, it was Ann that sold the Namibia hunt, not me.

When was the last time you saw booking agents having Marco Polo sheep hunts available this late in the year? Usually they are booked years out.

The great discount Mark offered on the Tanzania lion.

It seems like those who have the money today will pick up great deals in available worldwide hunts.

Some hunts do not seem to follow any market. As an example, last fall when my husband wanted to book his Mountain Nyala hunt with Ethiopian Rift Valley Safaris, he was told if he waited until the S.C.I. Convention they would most likely be booking 2013/2014. By booking early, he got October 2011.

It will be intersting to watch the list from USFWS of those who were selected for Marco Polo, Altai Argali, Hanghay and Gobi Argali import permits. I am curious as to how many applied this year as to last.

There's a lot of things going on here.

The Safari operators for the most part have an economy that's been based on the US dollar. With the dollar being de-valued against the world economy, the operators need to increase the cost of hunts just to stay even.

Fuel costs have dictated airlines raise prices just to stay even.

The hunter has to pay more, because his dollar is worth less.

These issues create two questions;
1) If you have the money do you really want to spend that much more to continue taking these hunts?
2) How many typically budget and save to afford a hunt, only to be hit by this recession (yes I said the word) and now find they can't keep up with the rising cost?

I agree that in the short term, due to harvest quota's purchased that some great deals will be available to the fortunate few that have disposable income. However, that won't last. Markets adjust themselves out of neccessity as will the African Safari business.

quote:

Originally posted by Wink: Since I am paid in Euros, the prices in US Dollars have in some instances actually dropped for me.

Wink, you rich Europeans should be going nuts right now! A $20K hunt in Southern Africa is only costing you guys ~$13K.

Looking at it from the opposite direction, I priced going back to Cameroon for a 10-day roan/buffalo...and with everything included AND converted from Euros to Dollars I was looking at ~$31,000 USD's and that was without tips and airfare!

There are still some very interesting hunts in Africa offering a lot of adventure and excitement for not a tremendous amount of money. I plan to focus on these (and elephant!) for the foreseeable future. Heck, I'd go if only to walk the bush and shoot guinea fowl.

Zimbabwe,

You are right. For the life of me, I cannot come up with a question that reflects that side of the equation. How 'bout a little help. Can you think of one? I don't know what it would do to the poll data, but if you have one, let's add it (if we can.) Kudude

PS: What about: If you answered "no" to the questions above was it because:

1.-You are richer than Midas.

2.-Benefiting from the decline in the dollar.

3.-Budgeted well and can afford the increased prices.

4.-Hunt first, count the costs later.

Kathy and Ann,

I apologize. Please accept my humble apology for confusing you. Kudude

Alaska Hunter,

I find myself in much the same position you are. I could afford it, but is it "appropriate." I love your statement, "Do I want to afford it?" Kudude

I really don't see prices going down. So I am gearing up to get my priorities done in the next 5 years. Every country has raised prices for their own reasons, be it demand, fuel, concessions, and until they price themselves out of everyones reach, they will continue to do so. Zim has just started to go up in the last couple of years, and I would expect that when they become politically stable again, it will jump, alot. Namibia seems to be experiencing such a growth in demand, I'm sure their increases are all due to supply and demand- but as many operators as there are in Namibia, I would expect some good deals to be found. Tanzania has now gone way out of reach for me- a 2 buffalo hunt for 10 days was always something I expected to do, but with the current price levels, plus charters, the huge tips that are expected, I'll just have to pass. Botswana and Zambia speak for themselves- their quotas are so tight I really don't see them changing their pricing or policies dramatically.
I wouldn't claim to know everything about the cost's associated with running a hunting camp anywhere in Africa, but supply and demand will establish the majority of pricing. There will always be the well heeled that can afford to hunt wherever, whenever, regardless of the cost. And probably to a lesser extent there will be hunters that either need, or want, the lowest cost they can find. Only time will tell how the massive increase in Tanzania will pan out, and what will happen in Zim, will Botswana open up cats- all of these can and will effect pricing in the other countries. We'll just have to wait and see. Hopefully new places will become more viable for buffalo (Uganda), mozambique continues to improve, countries get more aggressive in reducing elephants- so I think/hope there could be some good things in future.

Does anyone have any statistics on what fraction of safari goers are American? A faltering US economy and devaluing $US will reduce the number of Americans going to Africa, but are Americans really a large enough fraction of the safari buying population to affect the demand side of the equation at a time when people not earning $US are able to buy more and offset at least some of that decline in demand? (Now that's a run on sentence!) I'd guess the answer is no, and that not only will safari prices not drop in real terms, but the increased buying power of those of us not being paid in $US will not last for long either. Of course I don't have any data to back that up, which is why I asked the question.

Dean

quote:

Originally posted by maki:
Does anyone have any statistics on what fraction of safari goers are American?

I found a study on the Selous game Reserve in Tanzania, which said that in 2003, 54.2% of the clients hunting the Selous came from Europe, and 34.2% from the US. Pretty surprising, even if just a snapshot of one area.

The post with the link to the study is at:
https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1411043/m/924105128

I had a somewhat related talk with a friend yesterday, might even be worthy of it's own thread. My apologies in advance for the rambling to follow.

He's over 60, has had a run in with prostate cancer (doing well thank God), he also says he will need a joint replacement in the not too distant future. Because of these issues he feels like he has to go to Africa every year. He books plains game hunts on an almost annual basis.

I'm turning "39 for the second time" later this summer. I've been to Namibia in '05. I'm doing a split hunt between RSA and Zim for buff and plains game in July. I probably could go every year if I limited myself to plains game, and hunted only in RSA and Namibia. However, I prefer to keep saving longer in order to go to countries like Cameroon, Zambia, Tanzania, and eventually Ethiopia. If it means longer waits between hunts I'll probably just appreciate the hunt more when it does happen.

Is one approach better than another? I don't necessarily think so; but I do feel a little bit sorry for my friend. He seems kind of sad when he says "I have to go now", kind of like he wishes he could afford buffalo or cats or some of the more expensive plains game animals (sable, roan, etc.) or specialized hunts like bongo or Lord Derby Eland. I really think he could if he'd take a year or two between safaris. Kind of like the people with new Hummer H2's pulling expensive speedboats saying they'd love to go on a safari but can't afford it. Then again he feels like there may not be a tomorrow for him.

Okay, rambling over. Hope it made some sense to at least someone out there..

In 2000 Zambia hunts were the same price as Zimbabwe. A ten day buffalo and plains game safari in both countries with the same outfitter was 6,900 dollars US. Zambia closed for two years and when they reopened the price doubled. Glad I didnt wait to go. Zim has gone up but not as much as everywhere else. It is not going to get any less expensive unless you make changes such as chopping days or not sending trophys home. Ive done both to make this year work.

Unfortunately we all have to live with the burden of higher prices and no-one can get away from it. Unless your name is Bob and you run the country of Zimbabwe.

Anyway for example my hunting bakkie ran last year at R1.00 almost extact to a km on fuel only. This year at the present moment R1.50 per km on fuel only no running costs. Over the past 3 years food prices has tripled in our country. But if you consider the prices going up you will see that Daily rates did go up but not like everything else. RSA is still very affordable what makes it expensive is the high price for a airline ticket. Again this has gone up very quickly but daily rates slowly.

Maybe the mindshift should rather change to budget harder for the extras, airline, shipping and taxidermy and less on the hunt as that is still affordable.

quote:

Originally posted by kudude:
Zimbabwe,

You are right. For the life of me, I cannot come up with a question that reflects that side of the equation. How 'bout a little help. Can you think of one? I don't know what it would do to the poll data, but if you have one, let's add it (if we can.) Kudude

PS: What about: If you answered "no" to the questions above was it because:

1.-You are richer than Midas.

2.-Benefiting from the decline in the dollar.

3.-Budgeted well and can afford the increased prices.

4.-Hunt first, count the costs later.

You shall know that all this economything with the a decline in US economy will have an effect on us one way another. What we are experiencing know is just a pisswarm...freezing will come later for sure. I just heard on the news here last night that the brits will be in for a worser situation than the americans are having right know....and it will come to euroland too I just had to be. Right now, american taxpayers are paying for this "worldpeace" of ours. The US defensebudget is so 8-10x higher than the budget for education ex. The war against terrorism/crime is a price that the second comming of christ can solve only. I am not worried about safarihunting( I could live without), but I do worry about america, and all my good friends in the south. Right now the chinese are taking over, without as firing one shot. Buy american where ever you can, and ditch the pingpong products.

I guess this poll is mostly aimed at the American hunter, but for us Europeans the picture pricevise regarding hunting in Africa is bright at the moment.

My local currency, the Norwegian Krone has strenghten considerably against both USD and Rand this last year, so for me this years trip will be a bargain.

In 2006 I payed 6,60 krone to a dollar, today the rate is 5,14.
The rand was equeal in 2006, 1 krone to 1 rand.
Today I pay 0,73 krone for a rand.

According to the price list from my outfitter the only rise in trophy prices for plains game since 2006, is kudu which is up USD 200.

After dreaming of hunting in Africa for years I finally booked a trip to LU5 in the Selous for my wife and me. Although I may have to drive my Ford pickup a few more years, we probably will not vacation to Alaska again until 2012, and my wife went back to work it will be worth the cost to not end up on the "I wish I had Hunted" thread in this forum. Tanazania was definitely not the least expensive option however we hope to realize the value of booking with what should be a quality outfitter for an experience of a lifetime.

151 Days to Africa and counting

Mike,

Good move. We'll do a great job for you.

Mark

quote:

Only a few years ago you heard ,You can hunt several African plains game animals for the cost of a good Elk hunt in the US!

For many years I used the same comparison to illuminate to my friends and customers the possibility of expanding their hunting horizons.

Lately to be more accurate I have moved the comparison to “that of a major Alaska hunt“.

The reality in many cases is that this no longer serves to expand their horizons as much as illustrate that a Safari may not be within their reach!

Since it seems that; “most every hunter that comes to Africa immediately starts planning their next Safari,†not having as many first timers salivating will have considerable consequence when added to the attrition of the "do I want to afford it crowd"!

Best Regards

Mike O

The stock market may not be as high as it was a few months ago, but over the long haul it has been a quite rewarding to diversified portfolios. The economy has never moved along year after to year without a cyclical slowdown. If we learn in July that we are now in a recession, it will be the 11th since 1946 and the 5th since 1980. We've survived them all quite well with history suggesting they create the market's best buying opportunities. According to most polls, a very common sentiment is that people think the economy is weak but that they personally are doing fine. With that scenario surprisingly common, balanced with the fact that most safaris are US dollar denominated, I would suspect the demand for safaris has not been diminished as much as the gloom spread by the national media might suggest.
No doubt hunters living on a fixed income may see less disposable income, but the typical higher cost of these types of ventures may have long before now made them less common among that segment of the hunting community.

From an outfitter's perspective, interest in hunting plains game has definitely diminished.
Many hunts that I know of have not increased their prices in the last few years, so shop around as the outfitters have met the market to a degree.
www.graaffreinetsafaris.co.za

My 20 day plains game hunt plus leopard is costing me 26,000 U.S , this includes shipping dipping trophy fees etc etc air fare excluded...with the australian dollar being so high in relation to the U.S dollar , i worked it out that im saving 15,000 AUST while the exchage rate was in my favour, so i thought i might as well go now and get it over and done with , in the short term at least
i think the esculating prices will place many average hunter in the category..."DO I WANT TO AFFORD THIS/I CANT AFFORD IT"....I think the black clouds are gathering on the horizon, as far as the economy goes, which will effect the amount of hunters going to AFRICA ....i guess time will tell
Daniel

quote:

Originally posted by kudude:
Zimbabwe,

You are right. For the life of me, I cannot come up with a question that reflects that side of the equation. How 'bout a little help. Can you think of one? I don't know what it would do to the poll data, but if you have one, let's add it (if we can.) Kudude

PS: What about: If you answered "no" to the questions above was it because:

1.-You are richer than Midas.

2.-Benefiting from the decline in the dollar.

3.-Budgeted well and can afford the increased prices.

4.-Hunt first, count the costs later.

kudude
I said no to everything and a good option for the last answer would be:

1. I have waited all my life for this and nothing is stopping me.

As mentioned earlier, if a respondent answers "no" to the first five questions, there is not an appropriate response for question 6. This would seem to me that kudude is looking for, and slanting this survey, for a particular result.

Ehg5640

I agree. Intentionally or not it does not seem the poll allows for an effective way to say " I understand prices go up so I'm making a plan to allow for that and then I'm going hunting". So people look at the poll and think that everybody is throttling back on their plans. Whether it sounds self serving or not let me assure you this is not the case. If people really want to hunt they will "Make a plan" and are.

Mark

This question was obviously directed at American hunters, but of course not all hunters are American. I answered "no" to all the questions, but was able to answer the last question by selecting decline in the US dollar as the reason. For Canadians, we are in a window of time where an African hunt is more affordable than it has been for over a decade, due to the decline in the $US.

This window won't stay open for long, but I plan to go through it as many times as I can before it closes.

5640,
Believe me when I say that I was not trying to slant the poll; test and measures is not my forte.

GooseBlitz,

I love your suggestion (I've waited all my life . . .); I would have definitely put that in as a/the choice.

Kudude: Suggestion: An appropriate response to be added to item number 6 might be, "none of the above".