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BF

No it means that they haven't changed their scheduled departure arrival times. The 747 generally under flew the schedule ATL-JNB and the A-340 has been over flying the schedule by as much as an hour.

The A-340 is a .74-.76 mach cruise airplane that means it cruises at 74 to 76% the speed of sound.

The 747 cruises at .86 to .88 mach. The last time I went down non stop on a 747 the elapsed flight time was 12:58.

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well, as a flyer myself, I keep pretty good track of aircraft, particularly military ones. EVERYTHING coming out of france that flies, is a maintenance nightmare and technically inferior to anything that we manufacture. The crash is New York after 9/11 of an Airbus, was due to the pilot's full rudder deflection in trying to compensate for turbulence. jorge

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While there is little doubt that the long flight to Joberg is not a pleasure, one thing seems to be forgotten, or at least left out of this conversation--cost. If SAA reduces the number of seats in order to gain more comfort, the cost per ticket will go up. We seem to have squalled and received all kinds of "fancies" on these flights, such as movies (individual yet), but don't forget we pay for these luxuries. I sure as hell don't want to see the price go up any more, damn sure not $150! Sure, if I were wealthy I could fly 1st class or business class, but it's never happened and I doubt it ever will. I suggest that we need to bite the bullet and realize that this trip to Joberg is going to be uncomfortable. Would you rather pay more? The safety is a concern, and being on time (at least enough to not miss connecting flights), for sure, but comfort is not worth paying for, within reason. Do we need all these flight attendants? You don't have them at home, why all of a sudden are they needed when we get on a plane? You don't have them while you're traveling in your car. Who the hell cares if there is a movie? Is there one in your car? Hell, I don't even have them at home, although I know many of you do. It still is a big luxury, not approaching a necessity. We don't even need music on these flights! Ever read? My point is that it's all not really that bad when put in prospective. Fun, hell no, but so what? It's merely an end to a means. Think about the hunt, forget about the damn ride! Just so folks don't think I'm just jabbering without experience, I have traveled all over the world to hunt, leave soon for my third trip to Africa, and I'm a scosh over 6' and 220 when in "sheep shape". My old body has been beat and abused more than most and I pay the price in aches, I assure you. For sure, I don't enjoy the flights; I tolerate them and don't want to pay more! Try flying in Mongolia or Russia! You'll love SAA then. I'd gladly accept more bare bones flights if the cost went down appreciably. I don't have the luxuries at home and don't need them for a few hours on a plane. It's not a two week ordeal--just a few hours.

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Arts,

Wow, why don't you tell us what you really think ?

In answer to the reason for flight attendants, some of these flights are close to two days long if you are connecting to other flights and trying to avoid a layover in Joburg. At home we can go into the kitchen to prepare a meal or snack, but on the flight they don't take kindly to passengers "messing around" in the galley.

As to cost, the obvious solution would be an "economy plus" section with seven seats per row instead of eight. It would need to cost $150-$200 more, but not be mandatory for those who want the lowest possible cost (back to the old three class system, but with the middle class affordable to the masses unlike before ).

As for the individual screens in the seatbacks, if you are presbyopic (over 40, and need glasses for near-point) they are not of much use to you anyway if the passenger in front of you insists on reclining their seat the whole flight. You won't be able to get far enough back to see the screen clearly, particularly if you are much over five and a half feet tall since the screen won't tilt far enough upward as pointed out in another post.

As for experience, I will be leaving for my ninth trip to Africa in the next month or so, and my old body is certainly in no better shape than yours . I had hoped to be able to upgrade with frequent flyer miles so that just one time I could see what it was like in business class, but due to a mixup in my Voyager account I lost about 40.000 miles at the end of last year (and we won't even talk about the fiasco when South African split with American several years ago). Now I will have to make two more flights to be able to upgrade, but even this might not work. I was told by a "consolidator" for South African that he had a customer who wanted to do an upgrade this year. The customer asked for a 10 day time window (he would go at anytime within this 10 day window that a seat was available), and was willing to fly anytime from May to October of this year. South African, due to the reduced number of business class seats in the Airbus, was unwilling to allow this passenger to upgrade under these conditions, so I may not get to use my miles, even when I reach the upgrade level. Has anyone else tried to upgrade with frequent flyer miles this year (if so, what was your experience)?

Jim

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Now, now, I don't think any of the flights are 2 days. Unless it has recently changed, the Atlanta/Joberg flight is the longest non-stop commercial flight in the world, and it still is only about 16 hrs +/-. Surely one can go that long without running to the fridge if they put their mind to it. I know I do it regularly. For those with the big bucks, or the non-conservative type, they could pay for it. I sure don't need to! The economy-plus approach is a good idea. I don't need luxuries I don't have normally, and would prefer not to pay for them. I sure don't need a damn movie! Don't have them at home, either, and don't feel a bit short changed. I never even think of using any of my frequent flyer miles for upgrades--I use them for tickets! Economy tickets!

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Arts,

I didn't mean to imply that the flight from Atlanta to Joburg is nearly two days. My point was that if you have a connecting flight to or from another African country (and you are unlucky enough to fly on the day that has the Capetown stop as well), you could be traveling for well over a day without an overnight layover. Been there, done that, but didn't get a T-shirt (did get the little South African travel kit though ).

As for non-stop, the Joburg-Atlanta flight is definitely more than 16 hours, and even though it has intermediate "stops" in Capetown or Cape Verde Islands, you can not leave the plane. The Joburg-Cape Verde-Atlanta flight alone was scheduled to be 18.5 hrs, but my flight in May was actually over 19 hrs., and from the time that my original flight originated in Zim I was traveling for more than 24 hours. Had I been returning from Tanz, it would have been a good bit longer. Certainly no fun. Will I let this prevent me from returning-not bloody likely, but I don't have to like it .


Jim