Ladies and Gentlemen

How about we start the AR Hunting Conservation Consession in Africa? Only $1.93 per hectare per year.This is about $53 per registered AR member per year.

Could we do it and put our money where our mouths are??

The price of conservation

The unkindest cut
Feb 14th 2008
From The Economist print edition

Cameroon wants to sell a forest, but conservationists don't want to buy it


FOR rent: 830,000 hectares of pristine tropical rainforest. Rich in wildlife, including forest elephants and gorillas. Provides a regionally important African green corridor. Price: $1.6m a year. Conservationist tenant preferred, but extractive forestry also considered. Please apply to the Cameroonian minister of forestry.

That, in essence, is what the government of Cameroon has been offering since 2001 in an attempt to make some money from a forest known as Ngoyla-Mintom. The traditional way would be to lease the land to a logging company. But Joseph Matta, the country's forestry minister, would rather lease it to a conservation group. The trouble is, he cannot find one that is prepared to take it off his hands.

The idea of conservation concessions has been around since 2000. It was introduced by an American charity called Conservation International, which realised the going rate for logging concessions was often so low that it could afford to outbid the foresters. It has since leased forests in Guyana—where it has 80,000 hectares of Upper Essequibo—and in Peru, Sierra Leone, Papua New Guinea, Fiji and Mexico. But even in 2001 it reckoned that at $2 a hectare Ngoyla-Mintom was too dear. Its land in Essequibo costs a mere 37 cents a hectare.


Mr Matta, of course, thinks Ngoyla-Mintom is worth every penny. Indeed, the price has gone up. The government now wants additional money to compensate Cameroon for forgoing the jobs and local development that come with logging. The forest is pristine habitat of a sort likely to contain some extremely valuable pieces of timber. It also connects three other large protected areas (see map), and thus forms an important part of a regionally important green corridor. Mr Matta says that if one group of conservationists or another doesn't cough up soon, he really will be forced to get on the phone to the loggers.

A compromise put forward by the World Wide Fund for Nature has failed to find favour. The WWF suggested keeping an unexploited core of Ngoyla-Mintom while the rest is opened to limited “sustainable†hunting and forestry. The quid pro quo would be a lower rent.

Cameroon, not surprisingly, would prefer the higher rent. Mr Matta also points out that even a little forestry would mean building roads that will present additional threats to the area. Ngoyla-Mintom is thus turning into an interesting test of what the conservation market will bear. There is a willing seller, but not yet a willing buyer. The fine words of the rich-world's armchair conservationists butter few parsnips in the poor world. Here is a good opportunity to spread some butter.


http://www.economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10688618

Regards
Deafdog

I'm game.

Cheers,
Andy

i am in also

Sign me up!!!

How are you going to handle the poaching?

I'll copy my post from the other thread here.

Not to piss on your parade guys, but I reckon you might possibly need a bit of a reality check on the practicalities of the safari industry and safari life. Before you're ready to go hunting, you'll need at least the following - and probably a whole lot more..... You will need:

To hire someone (probably more than one person) to negotiate with the Government and local game dept and check out the legalities etc and act as your agent throughout the season for purposes of meet and greet, firearms import/export & licence purchase etc.

To buy 2 at the very least, 3 if possible, hunting trucks plus a standby vehicle and then equip them. That's close to US$100K each.

Then you need the finances to maintain and run them. - That can't be done on the cheap.

Another, larger supply vehicle. - Also needs to be equipped, maintained and fuelled etc.

Then you need to hire reliable local staff, not only to run the camp, but also build roads, airstrip and conduct what I would guess would need to be fairly large scale anti poaching and security operations. - These staff will need to be equipped with tools and accommodation and you have to feed them and keep them healthy.

Then you need to finance and equip the camp with tents, beds, tables, chairs, linen, cutlery, cooking utensils, generators, fuel, supplies, booze, pumps, bathrooms etc etc.

Then you need to hire, accommodate and pay a team of reliable, qualified, supervisory staff & Professional Hunters etc who will run everything. That same group will also have to maintain good relations with local government, game dept and local residents.

Then you have to work out exactly what quota and export/import permits will be issued and what can and cannot be hunted. - Won't be easy in that country. Then you actually have to get that quota & paperwork in a timely fashion.

Then you have to sort out your own dip, pack (including building of crates etc ) and export arrangements.

Then you have to work out who's gonna get to hunt at all, and for what, and then you have to work out who's gonna get peak season and who isn't, and explain why, then you have to find a way to tell the majority of guys that although they've paid, they won't get to hunt that year.

Lets say the hunting season runs for 6 months of the year. That's 24 weeks. Then lets say those 3 hunting vehicles run every single day of the season with 2 hunters and a PH on them and hunts are of 7 days duration each. Thats a total of 144 hunters a season. - Almost certainly far more than you'd have quota for in any one year. It also means that 2856 forum members wouldn't get a chance to hunt at all.

In reality, you'd need to calculate how many hunters could be put through the area during a season and then divide the costs between that number. If every forum member contributed, it'd take over 20 years for everone to get one hunt.

And I haven't even mentioned the cost of comms. You'd need radios for vehicles, camp and handhelds, plus a repeater, plus sat phones plus running costs......


And that ladies and gentlemen, is why the cost of an African hunting safari is so damn expensive!

Other than that, it'd be a doddle!

Hi Shakari
What you have described is the nuts and bolts of running a concession and the short answer is that funding is the issue.

If we fund the concession correctly all things are possible.

Not all contibutors will be wanting or able to hunt, contributing on the basis of supporting the conservation of the wildlife and the habitat. Showing the "Green Conservationists" how it should be done.

I admit that most people able to hunt on the concession will be the most wealthy of AR members and some less wealthy may get to hunt as a result of their generosity but the big issue is conserving the habitat and wildlife for hunting.

For some members even if it takes some years before they get their turn to hunt some will be prepared to wait, I suspect some will take a long term view that it may be their children or grand children who benefit from their foresight.

Some may be able or content to live vicariously through live video of hunts via internet broadcast that would make being part of the exercise worthwhile.

Also with 830,000 hectares available that could mean more than one hunting site. The location of the reserve in the middle of several national parks bodes well for a good supply of huntable wild life who move from concession to national park and back or even from the Congo into the concession.

Imagination is the tool to reality.

Regards
Deafdog

Hello Guys

Shakari, dreams are great, let them dream

and when they succeed, I will pat them on the back,

But as part of a team operating a concession and developing a concession in Mozambique, GOOD LUCK GUYS,

Hi Deafdog,

See my post on the other thread (here) https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=532104618#532104618

Referring to your other points on this thread: Funding isn't the only issue, you need to bear in mind that the size of the concession isn't the only thing that dictates the number of camps you can have. Some of the other deciding factors are quota of what the Government will allow you take, number of, and species of what the various western Governemnts will allow the clients to import, security, (in that area) suitable water availability and suitable camp sites etc etc etc. Size of hunting area alone actually bears little relation to how many camps you can have or how much hunting you can provide or sell. For example, any areas that might perhaps have terrain that precludes vehicular access for some reason will probably mean you can't effectively hunt those areas or possibly also the areas beyond. To determine how much of the area is huntable, you'd need to do an aerial survey using something like a eurofox - or even more expensive, a helicopter..... that alone would take weeks and swallow thousands of dollars.

Even if funding were the only issue, you need to remember that no matter how much money you throw at a project like this, you simply can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

You've certainly got a lot more faith in human nature than I have, but like I said in the other post, if you think you can do it, you should go for it and give it a try and I wish you the very best of luck.

Hey Guys
I don't have a fast enough internet connection I am still dial up and even then I only get
31.2kbs speed. This is too slow for Google Earth.

Can anyone (Shakari?) see if they can check out the area in question using Google Earth? If it is possible it may give us and idea as too how much may be huntable. That is instead of an arial survey.

Areas that have no vehicular access could be hunted the old way walk in and out, or at least helicoptered in and out with walking around hunting.?

Hey, Atkinson don't laugh, you never know!!!

Regards
Deafdog

Research of this magnitude simply couldn't be done by a few minutes, few hours or few days work on a computer that's miles away from the area. You need feet on the ground and wings and eyes in the air and in the area ...... The first thing you'd have to do is organise some financing to finance a proper research project into the viability of the area etc...... even that would cost some fairly considerable tens of thousands of dollars.

If you can't do that, forget it. - You need to bear in mind that if this was a viable proposition, someone would have had it sewn up by now.

If you can organise the finances etc, let me know and I'll be happy get a Kitfox and a specialised team up there to survey the area and write a report on probably costings. - But I could save you an awful lot of money, by telling you now, you'd be biting off much more than you could possibly chew.

Regarding costs of lease alone, you'd be able to knock a zero (at least!!) off of that price by doing it in Mozambique or Tanzania for example..... and you'd still be utilising a true wilderness area.

Hi Shakari
I'm working on the funding (see other thread).

The Google Earth proposition was just to get the ball rolling.

I realise that the mark 1 eyeball is required in the final analysis.

I am aware that it is not considered a "viable proposition" but you won't get 830,000 hectares anywhere else in Africa for only $1.6 m.

I also realise that I would need at a minimum a 20 year lease and that is a least $32m.

If I could get that all else would fall into line.

To survey the concession would require the input of many specialists in many fields.

I appreciate your offer, what discount would your offer to AR?

Regards
Deafdog

Hi Atkinson
Re the Poachers

11 poachers arrested in
TNS anti-poaching swoop
A joint team of game guards from
Cameroon and Central African
Republic, recently arrested nine
poachers and two parrot captors
around Lobeke National
Park.
The two captors were
nabbed with 172 parrots
while the poachers,
all from Central
Africa Republic, were
arrested with huge
quantities of bush
meat. Three rifles were
also confiscated from
the illegal hunters who
have been detained in
the Yokadouma prison,
pending trial.
The arrest is a success
story of a transboundary
conservation
effort under the auspices
of the Tri-
National de la Sangha,
TNS, accord that
groups three National Parks; Lobeke in Cameroon,
Dzanga-Ndoki in Central African Republic
and Nouabale Ndoki in Congo Brazzaville.
Two game guards from Central Africa took
part in the nocturnal operation alongside
three of their Cameroonian counterparts.
Romuald Guedoguena, head of the game
guard team in Lobeke, who led the operation,
said the swoop was the outcome of patrols
inside a logging concession near the park.
“We received a tip off that poachers from
Central Africa had moved into a logging concession.
In a pincher mode we were able to
helm in the suspects inside the logging concession,â€
explained Guedoguena. The game
guard said a huge amount of bush meat was
confiscated and put on auction sale in accordance
with the law.
That same night, the team also chased and
arrested two parrot captors. The captors entered
the park and captured 172 parrots. “We
tried stopping their car but the suspects refused
to stop. The car attempted to run down
one of the game guards,†explained Guedoguena.
The suspects only stopped after
the game guards fired and punctured one of
the tires of their vehicle. The parrots were
later freed.

Hey Shakari

It might not be as undeveloped as you thought.

T wo major mining companies, GEOVIC, an American company
and Cam Iron, affiliate of an Australian company, Sundance
Resource Ltd, are set to begin mining operations in
the Ngoyla-Mintom inter-zone in Southeast Cameroon.
The 1.5-million hectare Ngoyla-Mintom forest bloc, constitutes Cameroon’s
segment of the TRIDOM, trans-boundary conservation initiative
involving protected areas in Cameroon, Gabon and Congo
Brazzaville, inter-zone.
Ngoyla-Mintom was declared conservation concession, (a protected
area in which certain natural resources could be exploited with strict
respect for biodiversity conservation rules) by the Cameroon government
in 2006. A trans-boundary conservation initiative, the TRIDOM
inter-zone connects protected areas in these three countries,
for a better protection of animals that migrate across the region.
GEOVIC is set to begin mining of cobalt, nickel and manganese in
Nkamouna, Lomie subdivision, north of the inter-zone. The company
has already completed exploration and carried out environmental
impact assessment studies. They are at the installation
phase and exploitation of the 1250 km square mining site will begin
by 2009. GEOVIC is expected to carry out mining for more than 20
years.
On the other hand, Cam Iron, which plans to exploit iron ore in
Mbalam, south of the inter-zone, has begun opening up forest trails.
Some 40 people are currently building camps to house workers in
its Mbarga-Ndoumayo mining site. The company will carry out exploitation
on a land area of 875,52 Km2 with a 3-year mining licence
that can be renewed four
times. Cam Iron has accelerated,
and is partly paying for
the reopening of the Lele -
Mbalam road. On February 28,
2007, the road was five kilometres
away from Mbalam and
30 km away from Mbarga.
Another company, GFI, is involved
in the mining of gold in
Mbalam, swelling up the number
of jobseekers in the area.
These huge mining activities
are likely to have dire consequences
on the ecosystem of
the TRIDOM inter-zone. It will
increase human activities in
the area, many more trees will be felled and poaching will increase. Already,
there is a huge influx of people in search of jobs as the companies
plan to recruit hundreds of workers. This has resulted in a rise in bush meat
consumption, leading to more poaching.
Worried at the negative impact mining might have on the inter-zone, WWF
has been seeking ways to commit the various companies to respect environmental
norms, especially checking poaching. WWF has been discussing,
and is looking forward to concluding collaborative convention with GEOVIC
for the conservation of biodiversity.

Both taken from
WWF Jengi Southeast Forest Programme Newsletter March 2007
http://assets.panda.org/downloads/jengi_march__editionx.pdf

Regards
Deafdog