There has been alot of discussion on lion ages here so I thought I would give you all a little info on elephant as we have aged all our bulls ( up to 20 a season) and ele cows ( up to 30 a season) for the last 3 years on bulls and 8 years on cows.

We age them through Fiona Stansfield ( now Dr!) whom we have been providing ovaries for for the last 8 odd years ( See research on cmsafaris.com)

The oldest ele cows we have shot have been in there 60s with the oldest been 67. She was on her last tooth of her last molar (6th). The youngest was 12 years old and she was ovulating meaning she was sexually mature.

On the bulls the youngest we have shot was 22 while the oldest two were 40. The 22 year old was 35 lbs aside while the 40s were 48lbs ( Randy Matin- see Randy Martin hunt report) and Leon Komkovs ele which was 47lbs ( see Leons Hunt report)

Last year we shot two 70lbs ele that were 36 years old and 38 respectively. Genetically they were hundred pounders had they lived long enough.

The questions I have and also Fiona are
1/ Like humans are the bulls not living as old as cows?
2/ Are our bulls getting shot before they reach their old age?

This is possible as every bull that we have shot in 3 years have carried lead of some sort. One of the 70 lbs bulls had 17 bullets ranging from ak- to muzzle balls to 375 rounds in it. Interestingly though our average has increased yearly for the last 10 years.

A worrying thing is that more and more cows that we shoot are carrying bullets. The result is much more aggressive elephant and ironically the incidents of ele poaching has risen dramatically with the increased number of Chinese coming to Zim- anyway thats another topic!


Before someone comments that we are not been selective enough, for the record CM has the best average on ele bull in the valley for 3 consecutive year.

Just some general info on elephants as a whole as PH have a habit of telling their clients that they shot an ancient old bull that must be in its 60s!!!

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This is possible as every bull that we have shot in 3 years have carried lead of some sort. One of the 70 lbs bulls had 17 bullets ranging from ak- to muzzle balls to 375 rounds in it. Interestingly though our average has increased yearly for the last 10 years.

A worrying thing is that more and more cows that we shoot are carrying bullets. The result is much more aggressive elephant and ironically the incidents of ele poaching has risen dramatically with the increased number of Chinese coming to Zim- anyway thats another topic!

This is a real problem. Making the assumption that these were all in Zim, I suspect the problem will continue until a more stable government is in place.

The problem will continue as long as the price of illegal ivory is in the stratosphere.
There needs to be a legal trade once again, so that all that ivory in government stockpiles can go to market. The price will settle down, and there will be a lot less to be made by poaching and selling contraband ivory.

JBoutfishn, elephant move vast distances, assuming that most of the elephant were shot in the valley and or bordering Moz or Zambia, many could have been shot in other countries, so assuming it is a Zim problem is not always correct.

Buzz interesting, thanks for the facts, whilst hunting in Botswana for 10 years ( 96 - 06 ), I had many clients take good elephant, notably 2 bulls of 81 and 94 pounds, both were in their early 40's.
Elephant were required by law to be aged using their lower jaws in accordance to Botswana wildlife laws )

Recently we picked up an 80 plus pounder in Hwange that died a natural death near our lodge, it had NO molars left ( will get some photos posted and perhaps get Fiona to age it )

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The result is much more aggressive elephant and ironically the incidents of ele poaching has risen dramatically with the increased number of Chinese coming to Zim- anyway thats another topic!

Same problem as in Tanzania !

Interesting post Buzz. I was reading about some of the big tuskers from Kruger Park, "The Magnificent 7" I think they were called. Some well over 100lbs. IIRC, most died in their early 50's. I remember thinking that seemed young to me considering what I had heard about them living well into their 60's and longer.

Buzz, I understand that Boris Swenson will be taking over the research for this project is that true?

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Originally posted by mboga biga bwana:

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The result is much more aggressive elephant and ironically the incidents of ele poaching has risen dramatically with the increased number of Chinese coming to Zim- anyway thats another topic!

Same problem as in Tanzania !

Same problem as in Mozambique!

JBOUTFISHN

The area we hunt is border to Moz and Zambia. I know for a fact that the muzzle balls will be mainly from Moz as there are tons of muzzle loaders there and in 1 year we confiscated over 300 in our Moz area!

The AK /303 will be mainly zim and Zambia. The worrying thing is that these are on the increase. The confusing thing is that for the last 10 years ours and country wide average on tusk size has increased which does not go hand in hand with the fact that the poaching is on the increase.

Mart- send me the Pic and will get Fi to rough age them.

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Originally posted by Buzz Charlton:

Last year we shot two 70lbs ele that were 36 years old and 38 respectively. Genetically they were hundred pounders had they lived long enough.

I am wondering how you know this.

Hope you are doing well.

Following the money, I'm sure you can't stop the red tide.

I dont know but assume that ele bulls are just like most other male animals. They just dont live as long the females. They kill each other, they travel greater distances which exposes them to more danger and are a bigger juicer target for disease.

Bill

By knowing that they were just on the 6th molar ( which they both were) and knowing that the last molar lasts approximately 20 years and that ivory growth is greatest during the last 20 years.

As you also know that ivory weight increases through out a bulls life. With that in mind a bull that is under 40 is 70lbs and has 20 years of life expectancy left it would be a safe bet!

Looks like a great project Buzz! I'm curious if you remember what my 2005 tuskless was aged at? She seemed to be a full grown gal.

G'day Buzz,
With the Elephant Bulls and their travelling, just how big of an area do they range over?

Is it just too simplistic of a view to think that a lot of bulls got poached out the system 20+ odd years ago in all the chaos, thus leaving a 'generation' gap in the Bulls?

Ann

2005 was the first year we started aging them. I cannot remember off hand and will try to go back to my records and see.For sure She was a good mature cow and a hell of a shot!!!!

Sjb- Several years back we had collared a few young bulls and one 80 lbs single tusker in our East area through a French company called Cirad. The younger bulls traveled great distances - far into Moz down on to the lake shore then back through our area into Mavurdonna then on to Doma back through Dande South and back to our area. The old 80 lbs was more "homely" only traveling to the lake and back. A Zim poacher shot him and hid the collar in his hunt and got caught!!!!!

Regarding the "generation gap" question - I just cant answer that as much as I would like to be able to!! Makes you wonder where your old bull that you shot traveled in his life- it really puts it into perspective! Cheers Buzz

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Originally posted by Buzz Charlton:
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We age them through Fiona Stansfield ( now Dr!) whom we have been providing ovaries for for the last 8 odd years ( See research on cmsafaris.com)

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Where are the bulls' ovaries situated? Sure I'll read the research, but maybe you could tell how the bulls are aged.

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Originally posted by Andrew McLaren:

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Originally posted by Buzz Charlton:
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We age them through Fiona Stansfield ( now Dr!) whom we have been providing ovaries for for the last 8 odd years ( See research on cmsafaris.com)

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Where are the bulls' ovaries situated? Sure I'll read the research, but maybe you could tell how the bulls are aged.

Buzz clearly stated that they have been aging all their bulls (up to 20 a season) and ELE COWS (up to 30 a season) for the last 3 years on bulls and 8 YEARS ON COWS.

One would think it obvious which sex is providing the ovaries! The research being conducted by Dr. Stansfield on the ovaries is being done to study reproductive longevity comparing Ele's to Humans. Has nothing to do with aging them. The aging is being done by the molars!

Of course your post may be "Tongue in Cheek"? The "Sure I'll read the research" comment makes me think not!

we all know that the elephant populations have been growing fast in the last 30 years ... it would therefore follow that there are a vast number of elephants less than 30 years old out there , i agree with buzz we are shooting young bulls , the genetics have not been lost its just that the bulls are being taken before they get mature , one just needs to look into neighbouring national parks to see that the genetics are still there and healthy..

there are enough elephants to sustain the quotas that are set , but probably not enough mature elephants ..

in botswana there are often days where you will see in excess of 40 or 50 bulls but if you were to count just old mature bulls that number would be closer to ten or 15 on a great day ...

as a ph its always a tough call , you are on day 13 of the 14 day hunt , a 40 pounder is standing inn front of you that you know is a young bull and will be a significant tusker if left another 20 years but you also know that if you dont take him the next hunter will .... we just have to do the best with what we are presented ...

great post buzz thanks

Ivan: Love your show. It's one of the few I can get my wife to watch with me.

thank you

Buzzie, what does their noses look like when they come of age?.......

Charl

Jokes aside what we have found in the few cows that are over 60 that their trunks have lost alot of pigmentation and are very pink!