Dear Members

I've been surprised by the acrimony of some of the comments to my recent offer of one week "buffalo cow" safari at 12.000 $.

In addition to the buffalo cow it was included in the price 1 blue wildebeest, 2 impala and 2 warthog, full board accommodation, PH, hunting vehicles, trackers and skinners.

It was only excluded the air fares and tips. A SAA direct flight from Atlanta to Johannesburg costs only $ 1.377 and it allow to leave on Saturday to be on the hunting farm Sunday afternoon to hunt for five full days before returning to Atlanta with the Saturday afternoon flight.

South Africa it is not a cheap destination for internaional hunters but offers some advantages on others African Countries.

For example, if a simple snake bite can be just a nuisance in Phalaborwa, a town provided of adequate medical facilities, it may litteraly cost your life if you are hunting in remote areas of Namibia, Zimbabwe or Tanzania.

Trophy fees are definitively much lower in other African Countries but when you put in to consideration the financial costs and time lost in connecting flights and road transfers on primitive roads the price difference it is not so sensible any more.

There are many hunters not in their prime phisical conditions that cannot really afford the risks involved in a conventional safari in the darkest Africa.

Those hunters can still afford to practice their sport in the relative luxury a South African Game Farm, only twenty minute away from a modern hospital and even with the full time assistance on the farm of a professional nurse, at no extra charge.

In addition let me reiterate that I'm not a dealer but a broker and I'm just circulating some of the offers that I receive.

If someone do not like the offers there is no reason to attack me personally.

Who have been hunting with me always received a fair value for money and I intend to do the same in the future.

No one of my detractors ever hunted with me and it is possible that they never hunted in South Africa at all.

At the moment I'm negotiating 37" + buffalo bulls at 12.000 $. It may look very expensive compared with Zimbabwe or Tanzania but how many can really have there five days luxury safari for less than 15.000 $ including flights?

And even if they can, is it really worth the risk?

Regards to all

One of the biggest problems with internet boards is that people type what they're thinking instead of going through the normal filter of face to face conversation.
If you were speaking directly to a person and made the offer that you did, they might say "no, thank you" but they probably wouldn't get on a soapbox and start shouting against it to everyone within hearing distance.

The internet allows people the anonymity of not having to face the people that they are conversing with.

Also, in the real world, a person would have the option of slamming the door on the uninvited solicitor of unwanted goods.

George

To be fair to Andrea he is only doing what many booking agents here are doing...

Andrea,

How big a concession are these buff on?

And although you are making much of the closeness of civilization in RSA, many here want to get away from that.

I've just finish watching Boddington's new DVD on buff hunting and in it he comments that his book "Where Lions Roar" got that title because that’s what he considers to be a sign of "real" Africa...I am thinking of suggesting he calls his next: "Where Cellphones Don't Work!"

Regards,

Pete

Guys are pimping all the time here. Me too.

But buff in SA are way over-priced. I think they are way over-priced in most countries, including Tanz and Zambia. They're just wild cattle. Left alone they can multiply rapidly.

Hey, it's supply and demand. Not much demand for a buffalo COW for $12K. Different strokes for different folks, but 12 g's for a buff cow? That cow can die of old age as far as I'm concerned!

But you brought it up!

quote:

Originally posted by Pete E:
<SNIP>
..I am thinking of suggesting he calls his next: "Where Cellphones Don't Work!"

Regards,

Pete

Hey Pete you can hunt with me, cellphones don't work around my land either! Well they do if you take the 4 wheeler to the top of the hill.

Last fall we had a guest from South Africa stay with us for a few days, and at first he thought his cell phone was broken!

quote:

Originally posted by Mark:

quote:

Originally posted by Pete E:
<SNIP>
..I am thinking of suggesting he calls his next: "Where Cellphones Don't Work!"

Regards,

Pete

Hey Pete you can hunt with me, cellphones don't work around my land either! Well they do if you take the 4 wheeler to the top of the hill.

Last fall we had a guest from South Africa stay with us for a few days, and at first he thought his cell phone was broken!

Mark, you have buff on your land? Wow. I'd have thought some Bison, but not buff.

Let me grab my 45-70 and I'll be right out.

Don

quote:

Originally posted by Andrea

For example, if a simple snake bite can be just a nuisance in Phalaborwa, a town provided of adequate medical facilities, it may litteraly cost your life if you are hunting in remote areas of Namibia, Zimbabwe or Tanzania.

Let's be honest about this. How many foreign safari clients died of snake bite last year in Namib, Zim and Tanz? Zero? Sure, it's possible, but there are other things to worry about.

quote:

Originally posted by DRG:

quote:

Originally posted by Mark:

quote:

Originally posted by Pete E:
<SNIP>
..I am thinking of suggesting he calls his next: "Where Cellphones Don't Work!"

Regards,

Pete

Hey Pete you can hunt with me, cellphones don't work around my land either! Well they do if you take the 4 wheeler to the top of the hill.

Last fall we had a guest from South Africa stay with us for a few days, and at first he thought his cell phone was broken!

Mark, you have buff on your land? Wow. I'd have thought some Bison, but not buff.

Let me grab my 45-70 and I'll be right out.

Don

Don

If you are taking your 45-70 don't forget to take your lipstick and your clean pink panties.

quote:

Originally posted by Mickey1:
If you are taking your 45-70 don't forget to take your lipstick and your clean pink panties.

quote:

... your clean pink panties.

Two pairs in case one gets w....

at the risk of getting beatup here I'll be brave and state I would think nothing of shooting a big bad buff with a 45-70.
I don't need a lecture on how some of you may think it inhumane to kill a cape buff with less than a bazooka nor do I need to be told just how quick and tough an old boy can be.
A 400-500 gr bullet from a 45-70 can an has darken the lights of plenty of them

quote:

Originally posted by wynwood:
at the risk of getting beatup here I'll be brave and state I would think nothing of shooting a big bad buff with a 45-70.
I don't need a lecture on how some of you may think it inhumane to kill a cape buff with less than a bazooka nor do I need to be told just how quick and tough an old boy can be.
A 400-500 gr bullet from a 45-70 can an has darken the lights of plenty of them

I would be more impressed if you took one with a 22 Hornet (using cast lead bullets).

But the hunt being offered is probably a good one to try a 45-70 out on, since the buff is very likely to be fenced and docile, and there is no expensive trophy to get away.

500 grs is 500 grs and at ranges that buff are shot at anything launching it over 1500FPS will indeed kill a T Rex, not to mention a cape buff.
I dare say if a 180 rg .308 launched from a 30-06 can do it @ 75 yds a " measley little ".458 450gr 45-70 can do it also

wynwood,

The old .458 Win Mag ammo which pushed 500 grains at 1900 fps was repeatedly criticized for providing poor and unreliable penetration on both buffalo and elephant.

quote:

Originally posted by wynwood:
500 grs is 500 grs and at ranges that buff are shot at anything launching it over 1500FPS will indeed kill a T Rex, not to mention a cape buff.
I dare say if a 180 rg .308 launched from a 30-06 can do it @ 75 yds a " measley little ".458 450gr 45-70 can do it also

Just a friendly word of advice. Your best bet now is to remain silent. It's always better to do that and be thought a fool than to keep opening one's mouth (or keep posting) and remove any lingering doubt.

like I said back a post or two ago...I am not afraid of critics.You shoot what you want I'll shoot what I want. When you buy my equipment I'll shoot what you supply.
If someone wishes to think 458 Win Mags aren't adequate for buff so be it. My belief is a 45-70 with a good 450 gr hard cast will kill any buff that walks.
Tell you what 500 grs. you pay for my next safari to Tanz. and I'll show you myself...oh you can stay in the truck if you fear my choice of weapons.

quote:

Originally posted by wynwood:

Tell you what 500 grs. you pay for my next safari to Tanz. and I'll show you myself...oh you can stay in the truck if you fear my choice of weapons.

Put your money where your mouth is. I do.

Deja moo: The feeling of having heard the same bull before...

Regards,
Martin

500 that was meant as a joke nothing personal, Good Gosh man lighten up!

Last weekend at the DRSS hunt we all had a chance to shoot each other's rifles.
Perry's Kreighoff 500/416 was in the shop, so he brought along his venerable Pedersoli hammer gun in 45/70.

We both remarked how mild the Pedersoli was compared to the other rifles we were shooting.
Like shooting a 20 Mod. 1100.

I think it is Will who has the sig line about . . "Once you've been among them, there's no such thing as too much gun? You won't have to worry about that 45/70 being too much gun!

Way to go Don. You just couldn't leave it alone. You had to start a flame on the 45-70, didn't you. Now we have to move this to Miscellaneous.

Good Grief.

Henry is really going to be pissed this time.

Rusty there is a huge difference between low power factory offerings in 45-70 than good quality handloads. The ammo companies need to load for every 45-70 that could be loaded with their fodder,all the way back to turn of the century rifles used in the American west taming.
Today' rifle makers offer some high quality lever guns an single shots in 45-70 that allow for ammo such as Buffalo Bore and handloads.
With tests I've done using a 375 a 416 Rigby and handloaded 45-70 into the same medium the 45-70 OUT penetrated the 375 & 416 time and again and did that with a .458 bullet. Interesting to note I have also loaded .444 caliber to incredible pressures as well an out performed the 375. my tests were done @50 yds.
* I would not attempt to kill a cape at 150 yds with a 45-70 or a 375 or any caliber for that matter even if I could convince a PH to allow me to try

wynwood,

Show us that we are wrong. Book a safari. Shoot'em up with a 45-70. No one is trying to stop you. But make sure to take shots from challenging angles - none of those between the ribs broadside shots, if you please.

quote:

Originally posted by Mickey1:
Way to go Don. You just couldn't leave it alone. You had to start a flame on the 45-70, didn't you. Now we have to move this to Miscellaneous.

Good Grief.

Henry is really going to be pissed this time.

It is amazing how many posts got put up before someone realized my joke.

Good Grief is right!!!!!



you boys really are slow this weekend.

Carry on, I"m sure we can have 3,000 posts before Monday.

Don

Don LOL I promise not to get involved in this one

quote:

Don LOL I promise not to get involved in this one

If I'm not mistaken, CL, I think you just did get involved.

quote:

Originally posted by Dungbeetle:

quote:

Don LOL I promise not to get involved in this one

If I'm not mistaken, CL, I think you just did get involved.

Dungbeetle.
True enough but I promise I won't take a stand on the 45-70 either for or against

I'll let someone else take the heat for a change

I'd like to offer a hunt to you all at this time. It is a doe pronghorn hunt.

The use of a guide, a truck, a rifle if needed and the bed company of my dog. Also included are a free lunch consisting of a cheese sandwhich, marshmellows and gingerale.

The cost of the hunt is $4000.00 USD + trophy fees. $2500 for a mature doe.

Also included in this price are two coyotes one jack rabbit and a skunk.

Unless you happen to be a South African then all of these prices are doubled as it is coustomary in South Africa to double, triple or even quadruple prices for all Americans.

You can use any kind of gun you want.

Let me know what you think....

quote:

Dungbeetle.
True enough but I promise

_______
Ok, Man. One promise down and broken and who wants bets on this one? Jeez.

quote:

Originally posted by Dungbeetle:

quote:

Dungbeetle.
True enough but I promise

_______
Ok, Man. One promise down and broken and who wants bets on this one? Jeez.

C'mon Dung lighten up. I was just joking around with Don.

Don, that was not a fair test. You were supposed to call us all a bunch of names and accuse us of nefarious conduct.

quote:

Originally posted by wynwood:
My belief is a 45-70 ....

So these comments are all just theory.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
I'd like to offer a hunt to you all at this time. It is a doe pronghorn hunt.

The use of a guide, a truck, a rifle if needed and the bed company of my dog. Also included are a free lunch consisting of a cheese sandwhich, marshmellows and gingerale.

The cost of the hunt is $4000.00 USD + trophy fees. $2500 for a mature doe.

Also included in this price are two coyotes one jack rabbit and a skunk.

Unless you happen to be a South African then all of these prices are doubled as it is coustomary in South Africa to double, triple or even quadruple prices for all Americans.

You can use any kind of gun you want.

Let me know what you think....

Be sure to charge them about $5000 to ship those coyotes and jackrabbits back home via parcel post!

quote:

Originally posted by RBHunt:

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
I'd like to offer a hunt to you all at this time. It is a doe pronghorn hunt.

The use of a guide, a truck, a rifle if needed and the bed company of my dog. Also included are a free lunch consisting of a cheese sandwhich, marshmellows and gingerale.

The cost of the hunt is $4000.00 USD + trophy fees. $2500 for a mature doe.

Also included in this price are two coyotes one jack rabbit and a skunk.

Unless you happen to be a South African then all of these prices are doubled as it is coustomary in South Africa to double, triple or even quadruple prices for all Americans.

You can use any kind of gun you want.

Let me know what you think....

Be sure to charge them about $5000 to ship those coyotes and jackrabbits back home via parcel post!

Also, please emphasize that the hunting unit is nearby to a buffet restaurant in case the client's cholesterol level dips dangerously low.

Perhaps wynwood is one of Carmello's alter / stolen ego's who is fascinated with the venerable 45/70!!!

Hey it's expensive to keep those South African buffalo under fence.

First you got all the Purina buff chow, then there's the 12 foot electrified fence, and lets not forget all the electricity it takes to run all that electrical wire on the fence.

Lets get real as to the reason South African buff fees are so high. But they are higher for Americans than they are for South Africans.

My good friend in Potchestrom was telling me just yesterday about a farm he knows of that is selling buff bulls for $30,000R (about $5,000 USD) Americans will be charged closer to $10,000. I guess as long as people are stupid enough to pay these prices, well....

But seriously if any of you guys are interested in my pronghorn doe hunt drop me a PM. I've got some GREAT deals on cow elk as well!!

Surestrike,

Can you arrange a St. Bernard hunt? But I insist on hunting totally on foot, not from a vehicle.

This thread is getting kinda messy!

I guess the feeling is that all South African's should just hide


Yes things are expensive in South Africa. However, a buff bull hunt at ZAR 30K in Potch is not far from what you would pay for a 5 day Zim hunt using a reputable outfitter (exlcuding airfair).

Just for interest sake, hunting in the US isn't cheap either......

quote:

Originally posted by DRB:
Just for interest sake, hunting in the US isn't cheap either......

Texas is just like RSA, with all land being private, and most ranches useing high fence for some of the same animals you have in RSA. I was born, and live in Texas, and do very little hunting in my home state, because they want $2800 US for a goaty old white tail deer, on any ranch where you have a chance of bagging a 250" hand fed deer, and the African, and Asian game start at about $3000, and go up to $12K + daily and guide fees, for some of the rare, hand fed species, behind a fence, none of them native to Texas, or even North America! The same can be said for the animals in RSA, many of which never lived in RSA till they were bought at auction, and released there, for hunting.

So if I want any of the things you have in RSA's fenced areas,except the dangerous game, all I have to do is stay home, and drive a hundred miles or so, in about any direction with a fist full of money .

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
Don, that was not a fair test. You were supposed to call us all a bunch of names and accuse us of nefarious conduct.

Ah, I knew I screwed up somewhere.

Thanks.
Don