A rumor may be going about again, that Silivan is dead, as I've been told this yesterday.
It seems every now and then, rumors go about that another DG animal has killed him.
Well, did he "make the journey" this time?
Does he have a web site? ~~~Suluuq

His web site is www.nitroexpress.tv

Leopard? I heard it was his ego that got him, swallowed him whole I'm told.

Jason

Where did you hear this?

I should think it's pretty unlikely. He does most of his hunting in Tanzania and the season runs July-December. So we're right in the middle of the closed season.

I was told a few weeks ago he's been given his marching orders in Tanzania, but I reckon that's also an exaggeration. I was also that he's had to change some the hunting blocks.......... & that's a lot more likely.

I think it's just more of the BS that always seems to surround Mark Sulivan, nothing more! If Sulivan IS killed by any animal in Africa, you won't have to wonder if it is true, it will be in every magazine, and on every BB in the world, in five minutes.

It seems everybody wants this to be true! It's true he has a little egomania problem, but I, for one, certainly do not want him hurt, or killed!

I just read MS's opening page... Wow, I just LOVE how he talks about putting HIS life on the line... and not a fricking WORD about the actual HUNTER is putting his life and $$$ on the safarai.

just irks me...

jeffe

Fact: Sullivan got into deep trouble the year before last for filming his Safaris with Tanzania sanctioning, which is the law..He had his license suspended but was allowed to finish out his clients under the tuteledge of another PH...then he was to be expelled....but Tanzania being Tanzania I suspect he will grease a palm or two and overcome that obsticle...

Thats what I got from a high ranking Tanzanian official, just passing it on...???????????????
there was also some discussion about his endangerment of clients, but to what extent I have no idea, I also have information of some very unacceptable practices that he is involved in but that is hearsay,altough I tend believe it because of the source, however I will not pass it on..

Oops, sorry make that "without Tanzania Sactioning" not with.

No one gets killed by a leopard.................just re-arranged!
Rich Elliott

Did you guys see the commotion in his booth at the SCI convention? It looks like SCI wanted him to stop showing everything because his videos did not meet with their video ethics guideline. It appears they came to a rather simple solution. They made him cover every tv he had with butcher paper. That made people even more interested. If you wanted to see what was going on you had to lift up the paper from the bottom and sneak a look. I think that even made more people want to see what was going on.

Sincerely,
John Barth

Making him cover his TV's or not show the clip is BS...they do that to him however someone else that sells his video's was not required to do that and they were at the show too and had the video running among many others.
Strange how it seems to be "Get Sullivan" week.
I have not hunted with him, I have seen most of his videos. I have talked to some that have hunted with him. The few that I talked to had no negative words to say about him. Granted I have not talked to all his clients but for all I know they might not have any bad words about him either.
I am not trying to take up for Mark nor am I trying to bad mouth him. I don't agree with all I see in the video but...it is one of his ways of making a living. I know of no clients being hurt. Until some of that is documented I think I will just stand on the sidelines and see what happens.
I damn sure hope he wasn't killed. I can only think of a couple that I would wish that on and we are going to war with one.

Harry makes a couple of very valid points re Mr.Sullivan.
I have all his videos, and apart from value for money as far as entertainment goes, I have found ,educationally, they give one an idea on shot placement, and their effects on various animals ,particularly dangerous game..
Who exactly are the SCI for taking the moral highground anyways?
Are they beyond reproach?
Never brought the sport into disrepute?
Stinks of sour grapes and double standards to me.
DJ.

I have said before and will say again I dont care for the guys methods. That said, SCI pulling a stunt like they did is total BS. The man paid his money for his booth just like everyone else and as such had every right to show his vidoes. I wont even dignify their action with a statement such as "moral highground". If they have a valid reason to exclude him from the convention then do so. If they dont... This kind of behaviour is a mob mentality to look politicaly correct to someone.

[ 03-17-2003, 22:13: Message edited by: Mike Smith ]

Well said Mike Smith.

And one other thing, after mostly agreement one the above posts-His videography, editing and production put absolute skidmarks over all his competition. You have to wonder about some significant pressure from someone for SCI to pull this moronic stunt.

Not to take a piss on anyone but maybe this is the BS to go round before his next video comes out of the leopard charge.

I'm actually surprized that so few of the AR members know him does it say anything about our ethics ?

/

I have been wondering why SCI allowed this to go on for so long. They should have either done one of two things - barred Mark from the show, or told him up front that he was welcome, but the videos stay at home. Doing so during the show is poor planning and poorer execution. This should have been decided and communicated long before the show. They knew that Mark would most certainly show up with videos and monitors blasting his ideas of hunting and hunting ethics.

Look, it�s SCI�s show. They can regulate who comes and who does not - and as Alf stated, they should control the content of the show and the actions of it�s members - otherwise there is no reason for SCI to exist. You might recall the terms of accepting (paying) for an SCI membership.

I am no Sullivan fan and I think his ideas of hunting ethics flies in the face of the SCI mission statement. SCI needs to grow some testicles and deal with this matter once and for all. They have been dancing around this issue far too long. Many other PHs have been brought before the ethics committee, it�s about time they put up or shut up regarding Sullivan. Grow some balls and make a stand....

I have to agree SCI has every right to exclude Mr. Sullivan's videos from their convention, BuTTTTTTtttttttttttttttt, if they don't want his videos shown there, as Harry stated,the film should be banned over the whole show if that is the case, and they shouldn't take Sullivan's money, then tell him he can't display his films.
There are a number of things that SCI does that smack of elitism, IMO, and is one of the reasons the Dallas Safari Club split away from them. I have been a member of SCI from it's inception, as an international club, and IMO, they do a lot of good, but this action was just plain snobbery! If I were Sulivan, I would sue for my money to be returned!

I have no comment regarding Mark Sullivan, one way or another.

However, I wonder if the action to put the paper over the screens had more to do with the proxcimity of his booth to the doors to the show floor. Seem's to me that there was an opportunity for non-SCI members to see the videos from the door.

That's what I thought at the time. I don't have any evidence to support it, though.

Take Care,

-Steve

Question: I haven't seen any of Sullivan's videos-I've only looked at a friend's copy of "Death & Double Rifles"...what kinds of "unethical" hunting tactics does he enploy? I realize that his attitude toward the pursuit of dangerous game could be considered reckless- given the PH's responsibility to keep the client reasonably safe..but I assume at this point his reputation preceeds him and his clients know what they are getting into. Having never seen the videos (and having never hunted dangerous game) I am in no position to pass judgment on hs practices- I would, however, like to know what he does that makes him so controversial among the hunting community. I could easily go and buy on or more of his videos to find out for myself, but I'd rather not contribute my $$ to someone who's considered by so many to be unethical. Thanks for the info.

Ditto what Wood said. I've seen one Sullivan video. That is the total extent of my DG hunting knowledge. Is it the baiting of animals or the invoking of charges that is deemed unethical. I thought it was kinda sportsmanlike for him to wait for the hippo to get out of the pond and charge before shooting it (Death on the Run). I'm not trying to promote mud slinging; I'm trying to learn more about the sport. I've got lofty goals of going on my first African hunt in 2006. If the general consensus gives Mark a thumbs down, whose videos do you recommend?

First let me say I have not read EVERY post on this thread but what is really gnawing at me is the High Moral Ground SCI seems to be taking, if all of this is true.

To start let me say yes I do belong to SCI and have for quite sometime. Yes, I do feel strongly that someone has to "lead the way and set the example".

What I am getting at if SCI is the leader fine, but we better not act like we have no skelatons in the closet. Cuz we do and they have been documented, about some of the past "leaders of SCI" and some rumors even include the founder C.J. McElroy, flying in helicopters to get his (umteenth)Grand Slam before someone else to win the bet. I only hope these are rumors but feel they have some validity to them.

Set an example and try and lead the way. But remember, "Let he who is WITHOUT SIN cast the first stone"! Maybe we need to drop the stones and start leading by example, as the mayority of our members do.

Good Hunting, "Z"

I believe that Sullivans videos were banned from the SCI Convention and the idea of covering them with paper was his, to shield them from the outside where anyone with a video camera could go. If SCI would have not given him that break we wouldn't be talking about this now. The fact that Dallas has no standards is not relevant.

Alf, I agree with this statement completely.

quote:

---

If the claim is that SCI is the "champion of the modern hunter the world over" then taking moral high roads are in fact implied and expected of this organization. Not doing so would put the validity of this organization and it's stated mission in question

---

It is their timing and methods I question. Even if it was well intended it was very poorly executed.

This month's Safari Times
Changes in bylaws to suspended, or expell members
..... exposing clients to extreme, greater than usual danger
..... using methods that SCI considers to be reckless or unethical...

words to that effect...

Let's say, for arument, that markyboy is ethical and safe, but what about the people that don't have his skill, that follow in his rather bloody, footsteps?

i've seen on of his vids, forgot which one, but it's the one where his "legendary" double fails to fire the left barrel... the hippo hunts looked nearly ethical, but buffs, whacked with MANY rounds, or the client having a gun failure, but mark deciding to take him in anyway...

He exposes people to danger and does not take WOUNDED game in the shortest possible time to reduce it's suffering. No, he wants the macho BULLSHIT of giving the animal the false hope that it will escape. Since he hasn't lost a hunter or been hit himself, the critters are batting ZERO.

SO, to recap, Marky forcing wounded game to suffer longer the ABSOLUTE minimum and forcing a charge IS NOT ETHICAL

But, facing unwounded game, and presenting it with the CHOICE TO RUN AWAY AND LIVE might be.

my 2�, my opinion, and neither are likely to change
jeffe

[ 03-20-2003, 06:05: Message edited by: jeffeosso ]

As a member of both organizations for many years, I have yet to decide what the "standards" of the "New SCI" is. I have never had reason to question the standards of the Dallas Safari Club.

Did anybody hear catch Gary Bogners tantrum at Mark's booth when he saw someone peeking under the paper? I heard he about had a stroke, screaming and carrying on. A lot of people standing around in amazement. Great representative for SCI.

I for one, and I am sure every member of this site, wishes no harm to just about anyone (excluding Osama Bin Ladden and Mad Man Saddam and sons).
But having watched his videos, I personally would not tolerate that kind of mistreatment to me (a paying big time client)or to the animals that I love and respect enough to hunt!
Different strokes for different folks, but in my opinion, Mr. Sullivan is "over the top"!
Vince

Woodhits,

Welcome to the forum.

The way I understand it, many people have said negative things about Mark Sullivan because he seems to get an extraordinary number of charges.

Many people believe that these charges are provoked.

I have probably shot more buffalos than most hunters on this forum, and I have yet to see a single charge.

A PH friend of mine, who has been hunting dangerous game for over 30 years, told me he had only had one unprovoked charge. It was an old buffalo, which must have been very sick, as it was in very poor condition - to the extent they left it for the hyenas!

When that happens in Africam you KNOW teh animal is in a very bad condition.

Well gee Mickey...after such a nice comment about the 2,000+ members of the Dallas Safari Club I am sure you will be about as welcome in Texas as the Dixie Sluts are on radio these days.
Merry Christmas and Good Will to you too!

I have seen all of MS's videos, and I fail to see where he has intentionally caused the wounding of any of the animals. As to his "closing" with a wounded animal..none have been shot and run away. Which is better for the animal, to shoot at the first available opportunity, probably body shots, and have it run away, only to be followed up and shot some more, or as he does it, walk up ready to shoot and wait till you, or the animal runs close enough to make your shots count?
Why all this "Holierthanthou stuff. We are killing animals for our own enjoyment. There is no "reason" to go hunting. You could buy a lot more prime beef and pork for the money you will spend. If you do not want it to be dangerous, hunt rabbits. Why shoot "dangerous game with a scoped Mag from 100+ yards, and think your are a DG hunter? MS does put a "little" theatrics into it, but who does not dream of stopping a charge[or even getting in a gunfight with robbers]. even Ray stated he likes a charge. As to those who have hunted a lot and never had a charge, most of the time if you "play" it safe and are "cautious" that is the way it will go. I have talkded to a couple of people who have hunted with MS and they have high praise for his PH skills, from his camp management to his relations with the local tribes.
Why wait until the animal is cloae and shoot it in the head??? Look at the video where MS is asked to kill a buff that has killed a local tribe member. He shoots it with his 600 Nitro [a good hit] and it RUNS. The second hit is also perfect, the buff RUNS, the third hit [also good] knocks it down. He [and we should] know that a chest shot is no guarentee of an instant stop.
Look at the Wes Hixon lion charge. They all had bolt action trash, they all shot too soon and the PH got chewed. [I am not condeming them, they are all fine fellows I am just stating MHO]. If they would have had double rifles and used the MS technique they could have had butcher paper over their TV at SCI. Or maybe they should hire MS to protect them. I have seen one video, I won't name names, where the PH is taunting elephant, while the narriator is bragging on how experienced and great a PH he is.
In most ofMS's "charge" scenes the hunter shoots first, with no effect, cause he "don't hit them right" In some of the later videos the hunter shoots the same time as MS who points out where the hunter hits. Two of his clients shoot first and stop the charge while the animal is outside MS's kill zone. MS only shoots when the animal is close.
I urge every one to watch all of MS's videos in the order they were made. If you do, you can see a perfection of the technique. If you are going to hunt dangerous game you should watch and analyze them[you do not have to tell anyone if you think it will hurt your image]. For if you are ever charged, and do not want to be stomped, gored, or chewed, you better use the MS TECHNIQUE succesfully. It might be a good idea to check it out, do a little practice and come to Rusty's next double rifle shoot. [Better do a lot of practice my wife might be shooting too ]
MS's videos remind me of those old western movies, a bunch of bad asses have taken over the town, and they hire a "BRAVE MAN WITH A GUN" to take care of business while they cower in fear. As soon as the job is done...well ya'll know 'the rest of the story".
If any of ya'll have to go into a garage after an angry buff,lion,bear, etc. you might want to give old MS a call. If you got the guts, ask him to bring an extra double and go in there with him.

[ 03-22-2003, 03:13: Message edited by: N E 450 No2 ]

personaly i like ms's style and i belive buffalo hunting should be done the way he dose it non of this pumping ammo into the animal from 60-100 yards away till the thing drops get close and make 1 kill shot that is the way we were all taught.

In 2001 I was in Tanzania in the same camp with MS but with a different PH. I personally saw one of his Buff killings. 10 SHOTS with his trusty 600NE. NOT 1 ,but 10. Musta been a tough ol Buff or ol Marky had a bad shooting DAY. Frankly his tactics made me want to puke! Great brave hunter my ass! Even his camera man quit that year.
Marky may be a crappy hunter, but he at least can entertain you properly with a ton of BS and some very well staged videos. Some people are dumb enough to believe in him.-Rob

Robgunbuilder
Give us the details of the 10 shots.
Exactly why did the camera man quit?