What amazes me is how little this board knows about how unethical this man hunts, if you can pay the price, or to what extents he will go to get a charge.....

Now what I know is hearsay, but from his ex-partners and people whom he has leased concessions from and others who have hunted with him...I believe them, but cannot/will not repeat what I believe I know.....I can only tell you that I personally am satisfied with what I have been told....

A/

Who's paying who to hunt what here?

If I was paying for a buffalo hunt, I wouldn't expect the PH to shoot 10 holes in the buff unless things got seriously out of control.

When I was watching one of Saeeds ZImbabwe videos, there is a sequence with three buffalo.

It was very exciting, one of the buffs might have started a charge but Saeed dropped it. The three buffs were all close by to Saeed and Roy.

How is it that Saeed can deal with three buffs within close proximity without incident, but Mark Sullivans clients have to endure him shooting the hell out of the game they are paying to shoot?

Mickey,
I have forwarded your informative and kind remarks on to Gray Thornton, Exec. Dir. of the Dallas Safari Club to see if he wishes to reply before I do.
I am amazed at how you seem to know so much about the inner workings of the DSC.
I have no knowledge of how Houston and other handle their business so I will not make any comments about that one way or the other.
I will say that I hold memberships in both Dallas Safari Club and Safari Club International.
I am well aware of why Dallas, Houston and others split away from SCI many years ago.
Mickey...you may need two helmets...one for your head and one for another location on your body. We don't care if they are painted Okie Red or Tea Sipper Orange as I R An Aggie! Maroon is a very good color.

Harry

I wait on bended knee.

I haven't posted here for while, since my son was born I've had to re-adjust finances meaning Africa has been pushed well back., Unfortunately my curiosity got the better of me and now I've browsed and the desire is just killing me!
Anyway, back to topic, from MS website, can I pls have some educated guesses as to the weight of ivory here?

Hunter-Downunder

Those tusks look pretty unusual the way they are so unworn and cross over.

Nice photo.

Gator1- After seeing Mr. Bogner's 2nd video from the "Passport" series, I find it hard to beleive he could throw a tantrum over anything MS has done. Correct me if wrong,but dosn't Mr. Bogner shoot two buff from the truck and not make any attempt to edit it out? He is the pot calling the kettle black!

MACD37
If I misinterpreted your remarks, you have my apology. As to staying behind the keyboard, well, I'll take your advice and not repond as I would normally do. I don't want an adversarial relationship with you as we both have a love of fine rifles and I enjoy your comments.

As for Sullivan. I checked with some people on the convention committee and was told that:

MS was told he could not show his videos if he wanted the booth next to the door. If he wanted to show them he would have to have a place further inside the convention to eliminate any possibility of outside people filming them. This is why his videos were viewed inside at other booths.

His location was one of the 3-4 best at the convention and it was his decision to keep it there. He asked for and recieved permission to cover the tvs with paper and was allowed to show them this way where the general show could be viewed but not the detail. It was not hypocrisy by SCI but an agreement reached between the two that had the tvs covered.

MS has stated on many occasions that he makes more money from his videos than actually hunting. I have no doubt that this is true. It was to his advantage to have a booth next to the main entrance and to cover the screeens to peak the curiosity of the attendees.

As for Gators and Crane's comments on Bogner's behavior I wasn't there and do not know what happened. I was told about it, as were many others, and if true I find it appalling. The fact that he actually shot anything from the back of a pickup says all you need to know of his personnal ethics.

To Harry. I wrote nothing that I haven't said to Gray in person so look forward to hearing from him or you again.

Hello Mickey,

I read your comments on a reloading forum regarding your assumption that Dallas Safari Club "has no (video ethics) standards" - you are quite incorrect in your assumption. I have attached our standards (updated and revised last year in fact) for your review. Most mirror the guidelines of PHASA - I and numerous other international hunting industry leaders assisted in the workshop in South Africa three years ago to draft these guidelines.

Our Video Ethics Committee monitored the videos shown during our 2003 show. We found one violation and asked that exhibitor to stop showing the video - he did.

Regarding Mark Sullivan: He was not allowed to exhibit at our 2003 Indaba Convention as we felt his videos and his materials were not compatible with the standards we set for our convention. I will not comment on his ethics as everything I have heard is hearsay. Dallas Safari Club ethical standards preclude us from speculation. We deal with facts only. Mr. Sullivan was not allowed to exhibit as we felt his presence was disruptive to our show - period. We were praised highly by many of our exhibitors for taking this stand.

It is my understanding that SCI allowed him to exhibit at their 2003 convention. Whether or not his video monitors were covered is irrelevant in my opinion. They have their standards, and we have ours.

Kind regards,

Gray N. Thornton, Executive Director
Dallas Safari Club

That picture looks REALLY fake.

Looks like the tusks where photoshoped into the picture. My guess: 2 pounds each side...

s

SCI and DSCI are both excellent organizations, not perfect because they have about outgrown perfection, that happens you know!! Both organizations do a lot of good that helps all of us greatly....apparantly more than many know...

I listened as MS sold a buffalo charge (guarenteed)to a client..I walked away from that converstation...I have been told just how he does this from several well known PH's who he has used their concessions or actually hunted for them...Frankly I believe them, and they told me some very sick stories...

I will say that from what I've heard he is a very good hunter, very good shot but his ethics are minus 0 according to them all....Perhaps where there is that much smoke, there is fire? I think so....I know that every PH in Tanzania believes it.

In reference to the photo of the elephant with the long tusks....I just happened to view that video last night ('Death At My Feet'I believe) and it is the real deal. Very nice elephant but unfortunately it appeared to me, after viewing the sequence several times, that the client missed the bull elephant and Sullivan dropped it.....but I could be wrong.

In the couple of videos I have viewed of his it seems he shoots alot of his clients animals from under them.....that would truly piss me off!

[ 03-26-2003, 03:09: Message edited by: TXPO ]

DJ,
You have been taking shots at me quite a lot lately and made some off hand remarks about me being top dog on this forum etc. which isn't so..

I have tried to be polite and overlook your rudeness, and I don't mind disagreement but your cheap shots are getting a little old, so how about you not posting me and I'll not post to you.

FYI: I talked to Mark March 19th - he's not dead. Many rumors have floated around about him dying, I find it funny every time I hear them.

I for one have hunted with Mark, and had a wonderful time. Actually, I've hunted with him 3 times, (2) 21-day safaris, and (1) 10-day safari. Any danger that I was put in, was put on by my own free will. Mark has never put me in a situation that I was not a "willing" participant.

I've met two of his camera men, and neither had any "ill" feelings towards him. I have been there for multiple "filmings" and I assure you nothing was staged - and no animal was intentionally wounded.

I assure you that his clients are "willing" and "eager" participants - knowing what might happen.

I agree that he has one of the highest quality (production/picture/etc) films I've seen, and does not spare any expense when buying equipment.

I completely understand people who feel "his hunting style is not for me".

FROM WHAT I HAVE SEEN FROM POACHERS TRAPS, etc... Mark Sullivans extra 15 seconds before game is shot in the head doesn't even compare. I have personally seen the most gruesome and disgusting things from poachers.

Every hunt I went on, we spent time dismantling traps, and reporting poacher activity. I strongly belive, if there weren't any safari hunters in Africa, the wildlife would be 10x worse than they are already.

If Mark Sullivan wants to sell his adrenaline rush videos and safari's, so be it. People are odviously buying these trips and videos! Thinking about it makes me want to pack my bags right now - and head backto Africa.

I for one, KNOW that *I* am an ethical hunter, and I never felt MS acted inappropriate on any of my hunts with him.

I also have his book, and it is a very interresting read - there are alot of things someone could learn from his book. Just have to be open minded enough to turn the pages. He is a very skilled hunter, and very good at putting it on paper.

Just my 2 cents - figured you guys needed a point of view from "the dark side"

I am glad to hear that the reports of his death have been greatly exaggerated.

I wish no ill will to anyone who expends the time, energy, effort, and money to hunt in Africa.
For me, I must say that I have never, nor will I ever, hunt with MS. By viewing his videos, I have come to the conclusion, that at least for me, I find his treatment of his clients to be demeaning and his actions with regards to the individual hunted/wounded animals disturbing.
I must agree with Ray on this one.
But having said all of that, there are different strokes for different folks! If you enjoy that kind of treatment, go for it.
I chose to work with a dedicated PH who is interested in placing me in a reasonably safe position to achieve my goals in the most humane and efficient manner.
For me, I do not believe it is MS.
Vince