I haven’t been on a hunt in awhile, just mostly arguing online with Saeed and a couple of others over the CME/IBI trainwreck. However, I have been thinking about DSC and SCI and other critter clubs from the awards perspective.

Let me start with – I don’t like the concept of “awards” in hunting – for a variety of reasons. However, I do support SCI and DSC and Boone & Crockett and Rowland & Ward and the two major sheep groups. All “do” awards of one kind or another.

So, why the angst about this?

Well, we all know that the awards in SCI are a big money maker. People pay for the recognition. You shoot your 25 critters and you get a participation trophy… that you get to pay for. You can get a ring (like a sports championship ring) and make it as lavish as you wish. You work up through the ranks of average hunters and get to levels that are supposed to signify you hunting skills and the volume of animals taken. If you have enough money, you can via for the World Cup of hunting – the Weatherby Award – which, by the way, was originated by Roy Weatherby as a way to sell more of his high velocity rifles. He invented the award and gave it to people that would get him as much recognition as possible. His first choice for the first award was Jack O’Connor, who turned it down. He later accepted it as he may have seen it as a way to advance his writing career (this is speculation). Nowadays, hunters pursue the award. They chart the species, submit the measurements, and plan hunts where they can get the needed species count. Some of the agents are very good at shepherding these wannabes around to get the species as quickly and as efficiently as possible.

Boone and Crockett is different in that they are very detailed in what qualifies and what does not along with the ethics involved in taking the critter. You can get it measured and recognized for free or a small fee. If it hits the right number, you get a certificate and listed in a magazine.

DSC awards special recognition to it’s members based on the body count in a hunting career and if some particular heffalump is a “top ten” critter. The awards are selected by a committee. They get a trophy and maybe a sash. I am not sure how competitive this is. It does not seem as competitive as SCI.

The sheep clubs are focused on slams of the various species along with the quest for the 700” club for the four North American Sheep. They award folks for getting a slam or a collection of ibex.
So, why do we need these awards??? Isn’t the hunt itself recognition enough? Isn’t the self-satisfaction enough??

There is another unorganized group out there that is after 50 buffalo or 10 elephants or 50 whitetails or 10 elk or whatever. I was privy to overhear a conversation at the DSC show two years ago when an extremely well-known writer/hunter was lobbying an agent I was talking to – to get him a free buffalo hunt as it was to be his 100th cape buffalo. He promised articles and publicity for the freebie. The agent, to his credit, did not go along with this and this super hunter wandered off to the next agent. I don’t know if he was successful as I have not seen an article yet.

Is this not the same as chasing participation trophies?? What makes the 100th buff more special than the 1st or 5th? Why do we chase this?

I posed these questions to Peter Flack, a very well-respected hunter, writer and leader, who has quit hunting. His comments, as you would expect, were based on the current society of hunters needing “bigger” or “more” to testify to their skills and be accepted as such in our society. I don’t get it. Neither did Peter.

What happened to hunting for hunting’s sake?

Sometimes I think we are our own worst enemy. When I read stories about a “running gunfight” with a wounded buffalo, I want to toss my breakfast. A running gunfight??? How do you figure? You wounded the beast. It is trying to get away and you are flinging bullets at it and calling this a gun fight. I call it torture and poor marksmanship. If you had no bullets and were taking on the buff with your hands… as he is taking you on with his horns… then that is a fight. When we have scouts, trackers, PH’s, trucks, big rifles etc… it is not a gun fight in the least. It is a hunt with the odds stacked in the hunter’s favor.

So where have we gotten so far off the track?
What has moved us to where we are?

I propose it is not a new phenomenon. I am a Teddy Roosevelt fan. He did a 13-month safari with 500 porters and shot a literal boatload of animals. He wounded just as many. When I read about his trip and many others from the early days, they seem to be focused on pounds of ivory, inches of horn and length of lion to measure success or failure.
Am I wrong in thinking this is not where we should be??

I enjoyed reading Elgin Gates books and his travels. On Marco Polo sheep, he was one of the first in to hunt them in tough conditions. He spent a lot of time and money chasing them and when he encountered a bunch, he shot a bunch – all at the same time. He concocted a pretty far-fetched story and got most imported to the USA. Not long after, he quit hunting and started pistol shooting boat racing. What did he quit?? The fun was no more?? No idea. He never said.

Back to awards and critter clubs – why do we do it? What is the point? Are we wrecking the sport we love???

Your thoughts are appreciated.

I am personally against the awards . I think they are used against us.

I have never applied for an award . I have never registered a slam of any sort . The last time I entered anything in the record book was in the early 90’s.

There is a group that it does appeal to. If the awards didn’t appeal to them, the awards program would die.

I agree dogcat ,
My father and my grandfather, would be very happy with a nice fat fork horn buck ..

Today with these antler restrictions requirements, we can’t shoot a nice young buck

I know guys that hunt horns , and kill deer and don’t even eat them .. they just want to brag about the big buck they shot ..that’s sic if you ask me ..not right to take a animal for bragging rights only . They have no respect for the animal ..

Bob

I would take it a step further. Record Books, Boone & Crockett, Rowland and Ward and SCI would consist of only the very highest scoring animals, maybe the top 25 in each category. Who cares about some whitetail deer tied for 256th place? I do see value in recording the most outstanding animals from a historical perspective.

I have no idea why people do those silly hunting awards.

Not my style at all.

I do like the record books, as they are a good resource on the physical qualities of the biggest animals in question.

But still, I have never entered anything I have killed.

I have no interest in some circle jerk and other wack and stack contests. I have animals in the record books. However, I wish all animals were entered not just the biggest, so you can see what size and quantity of animals can reasonably be expected where you are hunting.

do not participate ... it will end on his own.

i just love o hunt but my ego does not boosting by any award or seeing my name in prit

The disease is actually called vanity, all about where you are or think you are in society, looking good, mine is bigger than yours, ad nauseum.

There are more than a few examples of pure vanity displayed in posts on this forum. It is something I have no time for myself, I have never trophy hunted as such just shooting whatever is available that I can sell (early years of game meat selling), I can eat, skins for floor mats or heads, if kept, as a reminder of the hunts, not measured or in record books.

Quite happy wearing old shorts and tee shirts when warm and add some old polar fleece if cold when hunting, don't give a sh.t what I look like in the field.
This was the reason Rigby gave when advising me that I would not be receiving an invitation to their 250th Anniversary celebrations, they didn't think shorts and a tee shirt were appropriate hunting clothes for attending their bash. I did say I would wear clean clothes not bloodstained from hunting.

Yep seeing hunters posing with animals and quoting where they fit in record books makes me

Great post Ross.

I believe that the answer(s) to your question is the same problem that DSC, SCI and the NRA have all faced. . . The hunter ego.

Being around the BOD of the Phoenix Chapter and being around some folks from National (Tucson). I saw the ugly side of these egos.

Hunting at a high level does something to folks. It unearths some inner ego that is hard to describe. I feel it's some left over instinct from our hunter/gatherer past. I've not only seen it in the mentioned organizations but walk into any archery shop, fly shop or gun store. There will most likely be what I refer to as "hangers".

They will offer answers and advise not asked of them, they can't help but tell a complete stranger of the Elk they shot, the Ram they killed, the guides they know or the trout they released.

Hunting, (for me) is meant to be a solo, spiritual pursuit. I started hunting by myself about 20 years ago. On local hunts, my wife worries about me being gone for 10 days, 2 weeks or whatever, with the hope of a reassuring phone call that I'm OK.

I killed an Antelope, solo here in AZ last year. It was a fantastic hunt. I was fortunate enough kill one on day 8 or 10. I had phone service at the kill site and called the wife. I was so moved by the almost euphoric experience that I felt some emotion.

To me, THAT is why I hunt. I think we have evolved into extremely social creatures and simply cannot function without people around at al times. We need accolades, we need validation.

The organizations, in my mind have lost their way. It's not about the hunt, the pursued animal or the experience it's evolved into something else.

It's why I still simply will not shoot an animal, any animal that I don't mount in my trophy room. These mounts aren't unlike the hunter gatherers cave drawings, depicting their hunts.

Carry on.

One hunts because he enjoys it.

Once the idea of hunting for an award, it turns into "look how stupid I am" sort of individual.

On my first African safari, shot almost 30 animals.

I was told at least 15 of them qualified for the record book!!

Including a possible number one reedbuck!

Definitely a number two, but possible a number one.

I thought that was joke then.

Still do.

Until I found out about the brainless wanna be hunters paying literally millions of Dollars to get their names in some silly record book.

A whole illegal industry cropped up in South Africa to cater just for them.

Flying captured animals in chartered flights or converted oil tankers to satisfy this very sick habit!

Thank you Ross for starting this thread. Well written and thoughtful. If enough of us reject the whole concept of awards as ungentlemanly and pitiful and treat the recipients with derision, they will surely fade away.
About time you got back into the jess isn't it?

.

Ross, An interesting thread and it would seem most posting are against awards and accolades.

I have not chased awards although I did get a couple of Namibia animals registered at NAPHA - one was there Conservation Medal for an old broken horned kudu bull, way past breeding and literally on his last winter, the other was a springbok years back that my wife got a Silver medal on. Something nice to hang on the shoulder mount and where the proceeds go to support projects and conservation. Those were the only two. I am hoping one day to complete the tiny 10, not for any awards but rather as a small collection of mounts that I can look at and enjoy. Is that chasing?

I guess my opinion on awards and medals would be to each their own and whatever rocks your boat. Same thing I guess is athletes chasing medals and trophies, why, prestige, recognition, I am the best, mine is bigger than yours et cetera et cetera!?

What about hunting and fishing club annual get together dinners - they are often award ceremonies - the biggest lion, the biggest buff, the best leopard for the PH, the most tagged billfish, the heaviest tuna and so on for the skippers out there. Are these awards right or wrong ? Who am I to say, but they do promote industry and help build businesses.

I have a few Tag & Release awards from a NZ fishing club that I never actually put in for but they were in the skippers` catch reports and each boat is required to file their reports and these are the basis for calculating the where, what, who and whens. I was sent plaques and certificates for fish that I had caught, tagged and released months after the charter. Kind of a nice surprise.

Back to the hunting, nowadays I am most interested in trying to take the very and infirm old animals, however, there are a couple of hunts in the making for 2025 and 2026 where I hope to take a good animal for the wall. But if an old old bust up specimen comes by first, I will likely not say no.

.

The trophies I like to shoot hunting won’t win any awards.

I like old worn out horns.

Which won’t win anything by any of the current “mine is bigger than yours crowd!”

I have plenty of awards at shooting competitions.

THAT is what competitions are designed for.

WINNERS!

Those seeking awards in hunting I classify as LOSERS!

quote:

I have a few Tag & Release awards from a NZ fishing club that I never actually put in for but they were in the skippers` catch reports and each boat is required to file their reports and these are the basis for calculating the where, what, who and whens. I was sent plaques and certificates for fish that I had caught, tagged and released months after the charter. Kind of a nice surprise.

The difference between fishing and hunting is that you don't get to choose the species and size of fish other than targeting it.

Yes there are some high profile, big money fishing tournaments, all very strictly regulated and fair chase, not as in hunting on ranches for example where in a number of cases are known for "grooming" the game until it meets the "standard" required by gong or sash hunters.

As you said: it is indeed a nice surprise to find some form of recognition for you endeavors without having specifically asked for them.

Awarding, recognition or just getting a mark is something deeply Linked to humanity as to compete is a way to be better.
I see no problem on it as long as it is not perverted or corrupted.
In my opinion the problem is not giving awards to hunters but the kind of awards we are giving and accepting.
Focus should not be on the animal hunted but in the hunter and how the animal was hunted and how it is helping conservation.
We have just began with THEGAP program but Larry and me already talked about this issue also.
Trough THEGAP we are going also to push the idea of a new concept of hunting awards. Awards which will be given to the hunter showing the biggest compromise with conservation and rural communities.
Wouldnt it be more acceptable and more honorable than kind of awards We have now?
Wouldnt it will help to change our point of view, and society point of view about us?

quote:

Originally posted by spanishhunter:
Awarding, recognition or just getting a mark is something deeply Linked to humanity as to compete is a way to be better.
I see no problem on it as long as it is not perverted or corrupted.
In my opinion the problem is not giving awards to hunters but the kind of awards we are giving and accepting.
Focus should not be on the animal hunted but in the hunter and how the animal was hunted and how it is helping conservation.
We have just began with THEGAP program but Larry and me already talked about this issue also.
Trough THEGAP we are going also to push the idea of a new concept of hunting awards. Awards which will be given to the hunter showing the biggest compromise with conservation and rural communities.
Wouldnt it be more acceptable and more honorable than kind of awards We have now?
Wouldnt it will help to change our point of view, and society point of view about us?

I thought you were helping local communities.

Not giving hunters awards??

THEGAP is intended to be a big program able to change the way hunting is seen by people.
Is not only about helping childs in rural areas.
It is about showing the good things hunting is doing for conservation of wildlife and rural communties trough the world.

Anything that can be done to change the perception of society about hunting will be done, and that is including even how hunters are focusing their efforts.

It is known that some people kill animals without any ethics, some kill animals just to fulfill a collection, some to be listed or nominated to an award. Those awards are focusing in the wrong direction, in my opinion, and making "things easy" to antis.

We already have the idea of beging with a new kind of awards but is not yet implemented in something tangible, and we are not the only ones thinking like that.
For this initiative of the awards I am also looking for funds and support in Spain, Saeed you are very welcome to become part of a committe to work on this idea of the awards, if you are interested, same for all of you fellow forum companions.

All this ideas will take form this same year with the help of all of you (the ones interested and wanting to help) and we will film a great documentary in Zim presenting the program and explaining all this new ideas which will be widely broadcasted.

As you know, hunting operators are included in THEGAP program, to enter here they must include and finance at least one school per area of our "Best performer grant program".
This selected areas and operators will be the ones in which our "award" will be displayed.

Every year we will list all the hunters (despite of the animals they hunt for) and choose the ones who have hunted ethically and meaningfully, in the sense of their contribution to wildlife conservation. This contribution can be done because they spent a lof of money in ethical hunting and donating meat, etc, or because they directly donate to the rural communities, or because they did a great work on communicating this ethical and conservation oriented effort,etc, that will be decided by the ad hoc committee we need to form.

That is the idea.

Best regards

“We have very primitive emotions. It's impossible not to be competitive. Spoils everything, though.”

― Ernest Hemingway, Green Hills of Africa

Yes. We just need to find the right things to compete on...

quote:

Originally posted by spanishhunter:
THEGAP is intended to be a big program able to change the way hunting is seen by people.
Is not only about helping childs in rural areas.
It is about showing the good things hunting is doing for conservation of wildlife and rural communties trough the world.

Anything that can be done to change the perception of society about hunting will be done, and that is including even how hunters are focusing their efforts.

It is known that some people kill animals without any ethics, some kill animals just to fulfill a collection, some to be listed or nominated to an award. Those awards are focusing in the wrong direction, in my opinion, and making "things easy" to antis.

We already have the idea of beging with a new kind of awards but is not yet implemented in something tangible, and we are not the only ones thinking like that.
For this initiative of the awards I am also looking for funds and support in Spain, Saeed you are very welcome to become part of a committe to work on this idea of the awards, if you are interested, same for all of you fellow forum companions.

All this ideas will take form this same year with the help of all of you (the ones interested and wanting to help) and we will film a great documentary in Zim presenting the program and explaining all this new ideas which will be widely broadcasted.

As you know, hunting operators are included in THEGAP program, to enter here they must include and finance at least one school per area of our "Best performer grant program".
This selected areas and operators will be the ones in which our "award" will be displayed.

Every year we will list all the hunters (despite of the animals they hunt for) and choose the ones who have hunted ethically and meaningfully, in the sense of their contribution to wildlife conservation. This contribution can be done because they spent a lof of money in ethical hunting and donating meat, etc, or because they directly donate to the rural communities, or because they did a great work on communicating this ethical and conservation oriented effort,etc, that will be decided by the ad hoc committee we need to form.

That is the idea.

Best regards

I think you are setting yourself a high target.

Not sure you can achieve all this.

Best of luck anyway!

Yes Saeed, it is indeed.

But I am going to put all my effort on it.

November last year I granted the first school for the "Best performer grant" in Corris Ferreira Gache Gache area.
I told him I was going to extend the program to more areas and operators, he said is not possible to join operators in one same initiative.
Now we have 5 of the best operators in Zim together.

Then I said I will communicate this project widely and many people said nobody will show hunters as conservation and childs saviors, even when they are...
Now I have all Spanish hunting TV channels and some very important internet content producers ready to broadcast our documentary to be filmed soon.

Then I said we will find funds for the projects of operators in our program and many people said nobody will give money to me or to a third party in the program (operator) when we not yet have formed and NGO or a foundation (we want the money to go directly to the ground), so they can not have tax deductions.
Now we have the first project approved and Larry and me have come with enough funds to double the required quantity. Larry, Andrew donating his impressive paints, several people in Spain and myself, make it happen.

Then I said I will extend this to most of Zim operators and then jump to other countries, many people said that is almost impossible...
But now I already have some very reputable operators interested to enter the program even out of Africa.

And now I am telling you this award will come to a reality quite soon, no longer than 2027 we will have it, I dont know if it will be only us or it will be more than one "conservation award", but that is going to happen.

We are more than 50.000 users in this great forum of you. There is a lot of chat and discussion about many topics, for example this one about the awards.

I will tell all of you something, what if behind talking about a thing we dont like, we do something to change it?

Please, any of you interested in stating this "conservation award" of us is welcome to help in anyway.
I know there are many of you with enough character and power to help on this, lets joing together and make a change.

Ask me here or by pm anything you want to know about, or give any advice or clue you can.

We really need all possible hunters in this, the more the better, hope to count on many of you. We are going to make this happen.

Best regards

Here we go again and let us divide the hunting community once more. I am not a member of SCI nor have ever been but I see no reason to trash a sector of the world's largest hunting organization which has a proven record of conservation and has positively enhanced hunting policy across the globe especially in the USA

If we don't bitch about DSC we bitch about SCI. If you don't want awards or tribulation then let it be. It is fine to be a member, enjoy the show and get on with whatever pleases you most.

I see hunting for trophies as competitive otherwise why hunt as meat is cheaper in supermarket after all
And that competitiveness makes us actually better hunters because older males are more experienced to deal with predators thus tougher to hunt and that way we prove our skills to ourselves and to others
Awards makes some people feel better and that’s OK too
In the west, when you shoot buck or bull your friends always ask how big and you say the inches and that usually tells them you got Good one , again nothing wrong with that.
Besides all this, shooting older males preserves younger one to ripe old age, better trophy and leaving genetics in the pool.
In the end it takes different strokes for different folks
I never would look down upon any awards just because I don’t do any

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Here we go again and let us divide the hunting community once more. I am not a member of SCI nor have ever been but I see no reason to trash a sector of the world's largest hunting organization which has a proven record of conservation and has positively enhanced hunting policy across the globe especially in the USA

If we don't bitch about DSC we bitch about SCI. If you don't want awards or tribulation then let it be. It is fine to be a member, enjoy the show and get on with whatever pleases you most.

Yup.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Here we go again and let us divide the hunting community once more. I am not a member of SCI nor have ever been but I see no reason to trash a sector of the world's largest hunting organization which has a proven record of conservation and has positively enhanced hunting policy across the globe especially in the USA

If we don't bitch about DSC we bitch about SCI. If you don't want awards or tribulation then let it be. It is fine to be a member, enjoy the show and get on with whatever pleases you most.

Yup.

I generally agree.

But is it okay to promise some interesting and amusing conversation to anyone who shares a camp with me or sits next to me at dinner and who starts bragging about winning a metallic circular award or is wearing a lovely red satin sash?

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Here we go again and let us divide the hunting community once more. I am not a member of SCI nor have ever been but I see no reason to trash a sector of the world's largest hunting organization which has a proven record of conservation and has positively enhanced hunting policy across the globe especially in the USA

If we don't bitch about DSC we bitch about SCI. If you don't want awards or tribulation then let it be. It is fine to be a member, enjoy the show and get on with whatever pleases you most.

I am a LIFE MEMBER of both SCI and DSC.

And I think they DESERVE whatever criticism they are getting.

Should we turn a blind eye to things we feel a wrong??

Why are we complaining about DSC right now?

Seen how the current management turned into ?

The awards are there for those that need/want them. Provided as a marketing device for the most part.

quote:

Originally posted by eny:
The awards are there for those that need/want them. Provided as a marketing device for the most part.

"Awards" are no longer given to those who might deserve them.

They are BOUIGHT!

A stupid wannabe fake hunter wants his name in some circle.

He puts out a request to some unethical, unprofessional provider in South Africa.

And before long the required animal is captured.

A quick phone call and the hunting Bimbo on the first flight to go kill his required animal!

Then a story is made up of how hard and long he has "worked" for this animal!

I suspect the best hunters out there never got an "award". I was always against even having an animal officially measured, but in 2017, I shot a Masai bushbuck that the PH was sure would go top 10. I still didn't want him measured, but after a lot of pressure from the PH (not the outfitter), I let him get him measured and he missed top 10 by about 1/4". He still made the book handily, but for a brief moment, I was disappointed. I never registered him and will never measure another animal again.

Awards are all about glorifying the hunter and that is all wrong. The goal should be to glorify the animal. And in that regard, I share Saeed's sentiment about shooting old animals that won't score well. On my last trip in 2023, I shot two buffalo with broken horns and an old, old hartebeest who was so worn down. These are the trophies I'll remember, not the one's who were wide and had sharp tips.

And you can keep the awards from other humans. I don't care what they think.

As I said, and now agree 100% with Saeed, even he is no longer administrator , awards are good and there is no problem about it, as long it is not corrupted or perverted. That is the problem.
Regarding DSC and SCI, agree 100% with Andrew, they have done a great work so far and is nothing I have to critizise about it.
What I am saying is awards are used for antis to attack hunters, and sometimes for a good reason.

That is why I stand for changing the focus of awards from the animal to the hunt and the hunter.

Best regards.

The only Award that means anything to me is the Weatherby Award. I know two people who won it personally and have arranged hunts for three other winners.

There is no set number of animals required, but if I remember right one of them told me that no one who has won it has shot less than 350 species of animals! And while the list includes animals like the one eyed toad from Timbuktoo! It is a staggering amount of hunting to have done which takes a lot of drive and energy and of course the money! But money alone cannot buy you that award.

And of course by the time you have got a Weatherby you have achieved every slam, platinum or gold award given by anyone!

Frankly the bigger issue i have is of people who go on a hunt and claim to shoot a world record on every hunt or those who shoot big 80lb+ elephant every time, lets call that one plan 206!



Arjun Reddy
Hunters Networks LLC
www.huntersnetworks.com
30 Ivy Hill Road
Brewster, NY 10509
Tel: +1 845 259 3628

Watch GUNSTIX Shooting Sticks in action
Short version https://youtu.be/HYoF1nR9JFo?si=aUeCBW_G5OJAK26f
Long version https://youtu.be/NJ96K8T-ttc

2026 SHOW SCHEDULE:
DSC (Atlanta 6th - 8th February)
Western Hunting and Conservation Expo (Salt lake city 12th to 15th February)
SCI (Nashville 18th to 21st February)

Folks,

Most Hunters that I book want to shoot good representative animals as do I. I don't get hunters that want to shoot a certain score but I do have hunters looking for something larger than they have shot before. I think I've actually only had one hunter that was avidly chasing the record book. Most of my folks could care less about records.

When I first went on safari I did put a few animals in the books. As time went on I only put Gold Medal animals in and for many years I've done a rough measurement of my best trophies but I haven't put anything in the book. It just seems unnecessary and of no importance. I've never been interested in competing against anybody except myself.

DSC and SCI do a lot of good for wildlife and hunters. The shows also provide a marketplace for the whole industry and is important to the exhibitors. Although since the Internet and the vast array of offerings there the shows are less important than in the past. As for the awards I don't care if people want to pursue the biggest and best as long as it doesn't require a something unscrupulous.

Cheers,

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by reddy375:
The only Award that means anything to me is the Weatherby Award. I know two people who won it personally and have arranged hunts for three other winners.

There is no set number of animals required, but if I remember right one of them told me that no one who has won it has shot less than 350 species of animals! And while the list includes animals like the one eyed toad from Timbuktoo! It is a staggering amount of hunting to have done which takes a lot of drive and energy and of course the money! But money alone cannot buy you that award.

And of course by the time you have got a Weatherby you have achieved every slam, platinum or gold award given by anyone!

Frankly the bigger issue i have is of people who go on a hunt and claim to shoot a world record on every hunt or those who shoot big 80lb+ elephant every time, lets call that one plan 206!



Arjun Reddy
Hunters Networks LLC
www.huntersnetworks.com
30 Ivy Hill Road
Brewster, NY 10509
Tel: +1 845 259 3628

Watch GUNSTIX Shooting Sticks in action
Short version https://youtu.be/HYoF1nR9JFo?si=aUeCBW_G5OJAK26f
Long version https://youtu.be/NJ96K8T-ttc

2026 SHOW SCHEDULE:
DSC (Atlanta 6th - 8th February)
Western Hunting and Conservation Expo (Salt lake city 12th to 15th February)
SCI (Nashville 18th to 21st February)

Arjun,
I agree with you but then, how has Peter Flack not been mentioned in the Weatherby beauty pageant? Because he has not hunted Asia and other places. He has hunted, written, supported and done everything possible to promote and purify
African hunting... Yet the Weatherby folks look to body count and who many made the SCI list...

Dogcat,

I hate awards. Period! No room for debate IMHO.
Share your thoughts on Peter Flack. Such a nice guy and a great hunter. I have all his books and wish he'd write more, but he got so fed up with it that he just bowed out. That's a shame. We all have a lot to learn from him.

His reasons to simply withdraw are the same problems that I have with the current "award" system. I think. I won't pretend to speak for him.

Lavaca,
He got torched by several South African groups that were in favor of canned lions, color mutations and other less than ethical hunting scenarios. He stood up to them, got publically ridiculed, then spoke his peace and retired. He still writes and does behind the scenes work.

It is a shame that the Rand or Dollar was the only reasoning by the RSA folks. No ethics, just rand and dollars.

Not to paint all of the RSA folks that way, but there is a massive commercial force that raises animals to be released, then hunted. That "force" trumped ethics and wisdom in many cases.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
Lavaca,
He got torched by several South African groups that were in favor of canned lions, color mutations and other less than ethical hunting scenarios. He stood up to them, got publically ridiculed, then spoke his peace and retired. He still writes and does behind the scenes work.

It is a shame that the Rand or Dollar was the only reasoning by the RSA folks. No ethics, just rand and dollars.

Not to paint all of the RSA folks that way, but there is a massive commercial force that raises animals to be released, then hunted. That "force" trumped ethics and wisdom in many cases.

Why are ethics being brought into lion hunts.

While no one talks about the canned elk and other animals in the us and New Zealand!

Hypocrisy??

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Dogcat,

I hate awards. Period! No room for debate IMHO.
Share your thoughts on Peter Flack. Such a nice guy and a great hunter. I have all his books and wish he'd write more, but he got so fed up with it that he just bowed out. That's a shame. We all have a lot to learn from him.

His reasons to simply withdraw are the same problems that I have with the current "award" system. I think. I won't pretend to speak for him.

I spent considerable time with Peter in Zambia when he was compiling Africa Hunter 2. He was a consummate gentleman who promoted free-range hunting in wild Africa and had no time for South African put-and-take shenanigans. He was old and wise and chose to spend time with his wife and family. He sold his farm and is probably reminiscing with a fine Whiskey on some remote coast. He wrote in a book to me "Keep the sun on your back and the wind in your face'.

Ross,

As you know the Weatherby Award is an International Award. While we all love Africa, its comparatively easy to collect most of those species when compared to mountain Animals etc. Personally I think a Brown bear in the wilds of Alaska or Russia is a far greater adventure and physical undertaking than a wild lion hunt and I speak from first hand experience, having done all three.

I don't know how much hunting Flack did outside Africa. And there are lots of people who never put in for an Award so there is no recognition!

If most of us sit down and list all the various species one has hunted you will be amazed at what it takes to get to 350+! And lets not forget those guys have all shot multiple buffalo, elephant, bears etc!

In the end its a personal thing!

Leaving this topic for a moment let's not forget we are a nation that hero worships and pays players millions of dollars to hit or catch a bloody ball!

Arjun

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Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by reddy375:
The only Award that means anything to me is the Weatherby Award. I know two people who won it personally and have arranged hunts for three other winners.

There is no set number of animals required, but if I remember right one of them told me that no one who has won it has shot less than 350 species of animals! And while the list includes animals like the one eyed toad from Timbuktoo! It is a staggering amount of hunting to have done which takes a lot of drive and energy and of course the money! But money alone cannot buy you that award.

And of course by the time you have got a Weatherby you have achieved every slam, platinum or gold award given by anyone!

Frankly the bigger issue i have is of people who go on a hunt and claim to shoot a world record on every hunt or those who shoot big 80lb+ elephant every time, lets call that one plan 206!



Arjun Reddy
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Arjun,
I agree with you but then, how has Peter Flack not been mentioned in the Weatherby beauty pageant? Because he has not hunted Asia and other places. He has hunted, written, supported and done everything possible to promote and purify
African hunting... Yet the Weatherby folks look to body count and who many made the SCI list...

quote:

I want to know why we do awards???

Public Penis Measuring