I have been hunting leopard with hounds for the last 9 years. As far as I know there are not many PH's that have been hunting with hounds this long.
When we started hunting leopard with hounds there was no real problem with it because the quota was not beeing filled and only a small number of outfitters did it.
Since 2001 more and more houndsmen have come across the border and more and more Namibia Outfitters have put a pack of hounds together to make a quick buck or two...
A good pack of hounds do not fall from the sky it takes years and years to breed them and train them. a good pack of hounds work like a good Rugby team every dog has its job and you can see them do it. They do not jump of the truck and eat the bait, chase game and run all over the place.
90% of the hounds in Namibia can not catch a house cat but now the must hunt leopard and when the outfiter or houndsmen realize that they can not tree cats LEGALLY they turn to other methodes to get the hunters their trophy of a life time...and this is when cats are let out of cages and traps...
I wonder how many of you reading this have shot a leopard at like this with out even knowing it!!! I promise you it has happenend!!
The Namibian Government has suspended hound hunting because of these people and unfortunatly I do not think it will ever open again...
I know lots of people do not support hound hunting BUT if you have done it the right way it is a greater experience than any other big game hunt.
We are very sad about losing this metode of hunting... It is a real pitty that the people who has done things right must pay the penalty...
NAPHA had to take action against this but I think they are missing the point and should not put the blame on our valued hunters from the USA but clean their house in Namibia because they know who the people and outfitters are that is destoying our hunting industry.
PS: please do not be negative about Namibia it still is the best place to hunt and always will be!!

Corne Kruger
Omujeve Hunting Safaris

corne,
i agree with you 100% so often particularly in hunting there are a few people who take a style or method and turn it into an art devioting lots of time and efforty and money to perfecting it ...they start to make money , joe average looks over the fence sees an easy dollar and tries , without the time , effort and money huis results are different and things start to happen from there ..

then when they get out of hand everyone suffers ..

you have an excellent product corne and i agree that NAPHA should look at the responsible people without penalising everyione ...

quote:

NAPHA had to take action against this but I think they are missing the point and should not put the blame on our valued hunters from the USA but clean their house in Namibia because they know who the people and outfitters are that is destoying our hunting industry. PS: please do not be negative about Namibia it still is the best place to hunt and always will be!!

Corne Kruger
Omujeve Hunting Safaris

Though hound hunting leopard would not appeal to me, I don't have big issues with those who want to do it.

That said, I would like to be not negative about Namibia right now but it's a bit hard. NAPHA did not single out Russian hunters, Spanish hunters or European hunters but singled out hunters from the U.S.A. with threats on invoking the Lacey Act and reporting hunters to Fish & Wildlife. Unfortunately, however much I would like to be positive about Namibia, I have to look at these threats as an indication of political instability among Namibia outfitters and professional hunters and the willingness to destroy at all costs even if it means crucifying innocent hunters from the U.S.A.

I had looked on Zimbabwe as being unstable politically but currently think Zimbabwe instability is preferable to me as a hunter to what is going on in Namibia.

What the F, is this going to be the next "Canned Lion" deal. It sounds like if you haven't been "hound" hunting in Namabia for the last half century then you are selling canned hunts.

I hunted Leopard in Zim with a PH that has been hunting with packs for a good number of years and he expanded into Namabia and from what I have heard very sucessfullly. Maybe Namabia was seen as a good place to use hounds and with good results. I am wondering if the grapes are getting sour.

its just the whole chitty deal today - I don't like it so you shouldn't do it or it will offend me

Ivan - I agree with you and Corne on this hound hunting to a certain extent - however we as hunters have to be VERY CAREFULL how we position ourselves here.
Remember the anti hunting brigade is looking for every piece of information that is detrimental to wildlife to use against us in closing down our profession !
IMHO - the reason why there is so much focus on leopard/cheetah hunting with hounds is that it produces a higher success rate than the old traditional method of baiting - therefore PH's and clients DO NOT have to HUNT as hard or spend as much time in the field, or do numerous safaris TO GET THEIR CAT.
Hunters are more successfull using this method - obviously success atracts attention - then everybody wants a piece of the action - and we all know that as soon as there is a method or a system that achieves quick success (aka known as quick bucks ) then naturally the rogues, crooks, liers and cheats are going to be rubbing their hands with glee in anticipation of ripping someone off !
High success rate = more demand = quicker the allocated quota is filled.
The demand then starts to outrun the supply - then greed becomes a factor and the dodgy operators start looking for ways to manipulate the system !
In my 20 + years in the business, I cannot recall that the baiting of leopard causing as much controversy as hunting them hounds !
CITES DO NOT WANT HUNTERS TO BE SUCCESSFULL ON CATS - They are quite happy if cat hunts produce a 60 % or less success rate.
Right now leopard hunts with hounds are running as close as 90 % successfull in some areas.
CITES AND THE ANTIS DONT LIKE THIS - especially when there are unethical and unlawfull methods used ! Believe me the antis are sitting in the wings waiting for the hunting profession to f... up AGAIN - so that they can shoot us down in flames !
Once again us hunters cannot rally and stick together - we are causing untold SHITE for ourselves - and we HAVE TO try and keep our act as clean as possible.
Hound hunting is always going to be contraversial - as in some circles its not considered fair chase.
At the end of the day it is ultimately up to us, the hunters to portray it in the correct way.

I want make clear that I have nothing against PHs or Hunting Outfits in Zim, my feelings are based on the facts that I have found.

Having hunted with Corne from Omujeve Safaris twice now, I can't agree more with him, when I say that the hunting in his country, with him as a PH is truely a unique and unmatched experience. The quality of trophies that his group produces would be hard to match.

You will not find a more professional outfit than Omujeve Safaris.

I know plenty of people who are still waiting to get their trophies back after 3 yrs from ZIM. Guess what, even if they make it back, they will more than likely be ruined. I got my trophies delivered to my taxidermist in 120 days from the time I left. They have excellent hunting for plainsgame and dangerous game. The buffalo and elephants in the Caprivi are some of the best on the entire continent. Don't believe me, do your research...and you'll find that they produce some of the heaviest ivory around. And guess what, they have awesome plainsgame too! The country of Namibia is a prime example of what a country looking to capitalize on game hunting should be!!!

Try and find a report on AR that includes hunters being screwed over at the airport in Namibia??? Or how about hunters being robbed/taken hostage/etc... Or how about not having to fight off officials with their hands out looking for 10's and 20's just get your gun through. This whole "lacy act" issue was a serious mistep for NAPHA, however, NAPHA doesn't speak for the Country, MET does. Those of you who keep claiming, I can't afford to spend the time and money in court to defend...blah blah blah...

My thought would be this, if you're going hunting, and you can't trust your PH to not break the law, than maybe you should reconsider who you have chosen to spend your money and time with. Hell, why not try and educate yourself, INTERESTING thought I know, on the laws of that country.

Mark, it is interesting what is thought of hound hunting ie unethical when in fact it is the old fashion way to hunt cats the world over. The truth be told it is much more expensive and overall time consuming to get a good pack of hounds trained. Anyone can hang a bait and sit in a blind and hope a "stupid" cat will show. As you know I have done it both ways and the hound hunt was the best, ie the baying of the hounds etc.. I guess Caracal will be next, under attack.

This sport is canabilizing it's self. If it isn't done my way it is not correct. Of course I don't have much truck with fester sticks.

In the original post he refered to them (houndsmen) comming across the border, so is this wrong? I guess if you aren't a Namabian with a pack you should not be allowed to hunt with a pack in Namabia.

Gee Mark I guess you have to stay home, no Zim,Zam, Mox etc....

quote:

Originally ...and this is when cats are let out of cages and traps...

The Namibian Government has suspended hound hunting because of these people

Please name names?companies that are known to operate like that --let cats out of cages

Die ou jagter, I have nothing against SA houndsmen we also use someone from the RSA but they must do things right!!! Then we do not mind...

DOJ - I have no problem with hunting leopard with hounds in countries where the game laws state that it is legal !
My concern is how its done - and who the bad operators are who are causing the problems in the industry !
Namibias leopard quota has been increased - their success rates on cats have sky rocketed - and their hunting industry, because of this has now attracted the rogue element that is destroying ALL the hardwork that the legal operators have put in place !
CITES is aware of this and no doubt is monitoring events very closely.
Do not be surprised if leopard quotas are cut quite drastically in the not too distant future.
My experience tells me that the majority of leopard hunted in Namibia with hounds - are "ranch" or stock raiding cats - these leopard overtime have been "educated" by farmers because of poisons, traps etc - so naturally they are the leopard that are more wary of baits - therefore to bag one of these leopards, alternative methods are sort.
If the use of hounds is the most successfull way of getting these leopard - and it is legal - SO BE IT - NO PROBLEM !
My concern is when unscrupulous operators start using unlawfull hound methods in hunting leopard - or hunting leopard with hounds where these methods are not necessary.
I wonder why Tanzania, Zambia, Botswana and Zimbabwe's National Park Hunting areas have not legalised hound hunting in their areas - is it because baiting is just as successfull or the prefferred method in these areas ?
There are pros and cons to both sides.
The bottom line is that the hunting of leopard with hounds is causing untold havoc in the Namibian hunting industry at present - because of the high number of cats shot - and this is the issue that has to be addressed by ALL the parties concerned in Namibia - otherwise some outside organisation is once again going to monitor and interfere in our affairs !
Man we have got enough shit from the Greenies against hunting - why give them more ammunition to attack us ??
Cel a Vie !

MARK I get it, you don't have to tell me 3 times!

DOJ - I have no idea how the comment got posted 3 times - as you know am still new at this computer technology - so must have pushed the wrong button somewhere along the line.
I know you are a pretty smart guy, and would have got it on the first take - so the 2 extra posts are unintentional bwana !
I also dont know how to erase the additional posts - so I am looking like a real arsehole on the site at present !

Mark,

In the bottom right corner of each post you make there is an edit option that looks like a pencil erasor on a folder. Click on it and it will bring up an edit box similar to the one you use to post. In the bottom right of the box you can delete the post by clicking on "delete message". Then I believe it asks you if you're sure you want to delete. Click yes.

Brett

DOJ & Brett - Tks for the advice on the "delete button" - see I learnt something today ! Now I am even more of a computer boffin . One day at a time ... ond day at a time !

Mark, are there any days you don't learn something from me.

As far as I am concerned hound hunting for Leopard is the best way to hunt Leopard. I was lucky enough to take a monster Leopard with hounds on july 16th in Namibia. You are able to look at many tacks size up the cat you wish to chase or not chace. The problem is people think it is to successful and it is on mature cats. I think if you look at the cats that are taken on bait they are quite a bit smaller than the ones taken with hounds.

It took us nine days to catch a cat but Malan had also prebaited for to weeks. So is it a shorter easy hunt with dogs? I would argue that we worked our asses of for my cat. We ran cats on the 3rd 4th 5th 7th and 9th day before we took mine. Easy it wasn't! These cats we were hunting would not take bait they are old and wise. Hounds are the only way to catch a Leopard like that.

There were still a dozen cats on that 80'000 acre ranch when I left. And after it opens back up there will be several dozen.

Unless you have been there and done it the right way you will not understand how great of a sport it is. Haven't people been hunting with dogs for centuries anyways so what is the right or wrong way?

I hunt cougar in the states with dogs its the best way to take the old mature cats. Isn't that the whole goal? We know what we have before we let the dogs go and thats what Daniel was doing when I was there hunting Leopard.

Over bait you just shoot what comes in because it is so hard to get a Namibian Leopard on bait. They are so wise and know alot of tricks just because you have a pack of doggs doesn't mean you are going to take a Leopard there is so much to a succesful cat hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by Leland Reinier:
As far as I am concerned hound hunting for Leopard is the best way to hunt Leopard. I was lucky enough to take a monster Leopard with hounds on july 16th in Namibia. You are able to look at many tacks size up the cat you wish to chase or not chace. The problem is people think it is to successful and it is on mature cats. I think if you look at the cats that are taken on bait they are quite a bit smaller than the ones taken with hounds.

It took us nine days to catch a cat but Malan had also prebaited for to weeks. So is it a shorter easy hunt with dogs? I would argue that we worked our asses of for my cat. We ran cats on the 3rd 4th 5th 7th and 9th day before we took mine. Easy it wasn't! These cats we were hunting would not take bait they are old and wise. Hounds are the only way to catch a Leopard like that.

There were still a dozen cats on that 80'000 acre ranch when I left. And after it opens back up there will be several dozen.

Unless you have been there and done it the right way you will not understand how great of a sport it is. Haven't people been hunting with dogs for centuries anyways so what is the right or wrong way?

I hunt cougar in the states with dogs its the best way to take the old mature cats. Isn't that the whole goal? We know what we have before we let the dogs go and thats what Daniel was doing when I was there hunting Leopard.

Over bait you just shoot what comes in because it is so hard to get a Namibian Leopard on bait. They are so wise and know alot of tricks just because you have a pack of doggs doesn't mean you are going to take a Leopard there is so much to a succesful cat hunt.

Any idea when your article may be published? I look forward to reading more about your experience hunting with Malan. I will be hunting with him in September 2010.

Soon I hope! I have it mostly put together. Things have been busy at my taxidermy shop so time has been short. But Very soon thanks for asking.