Harare - A cabinet minister in Zimbabwe has warned the government may take over white-owned firms in an exercise similar to actions under Harare's five-year old land reform programme, a newspaper reported on Tuesday.

Transport Minister Chris Mushohwe told a business conference in the mountain resort of Nyanga last week that the government could seize companies owned or run by whites, the privately-run Daily Mirror reported.

"Most of these companies do not want to give us equity. We might decide to take over these companies just like we did during the land reform exercise," Mushohwe was quoted as telling the conference.

Zimbabwe's economy has been in rapid decline since the launch of the land reform programme, which has cut production in the key agricultural sector.

Last Friday, Mugabe signed into law controversial amendments to the constitution that will make it impossible for the 4,000 or so white farmers who have lost their land to contest the takeovers in court.

The Daily Mirror said black executives attending the conference organised by the Confederation of Zimbabwe Industries (CZI) were unimpressed by the transport minister's comments.

"What signals does this send to investors?" one executive was quoted as asking.

The changes to Zimbabwe's constitution also promote "affirmative action" in favour of "persons who have been previously disadvantaged by unfair discrimination".

Economists say the new land laws, which also give ownership of all agricultural land to the state, will drive off foreign investment.

But the paper said Finance Minister Herbert Murerwa told the CZI conference that the amendments to the constitution were not a threat to commerce and industry.

"The intention (of the constitutional amendments) was to confirm the acquisition of land that had already been taken anyway. We have never said that this would apply to other forms of business," Murerwa said.

It was not immediately clear how many whites still own businesses. A recent population census revealed that whites and Asians make up half a percent of the country's 11.6 million people.

As bad as things are, they will never be as unfair as apartheid. Thank god racist governments are gone from Africa.

Jason

JBrown, apartheid is undefendable but I think good arguments can be made that some "final solutions" are even worse in terms of the results.

Jason: Are you kidding? Affirmative action is often racism and revenge...but maybe it doesn´t count if a white person is discriminated?

Maybe your comment was ironical and I missed the point?

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:
As bad as things are, they will never be as unfair as apartheid. Thank god racist governments are gone from Africa.

Jason

Perhaps not. Of course, what does it matter to the starving millions if they are free of white oppression?

Jason,

Just think some 20 year employee at a hospital with a primary educcation being given the supervisors job in infection control....

Enjoy your surgery....


Mike

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:
As bad as things are, they will never be as unfair as apartheid. Thank god racist governments are gone from Africa.

Jason

What is being done in southern African countries today IS apartheid with the whites being the victims this time around.

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:
As bad as things are, they will never be as unfair as apartheid. Thank god racist governments are gone from Africa.

Jason

You obviously don't understand what Apartheid was. You have obviously never been to Africa.

Apartheid was a managment tool. There was no crime, everyone had a job that wanted one, and the place was safe.

Since 1999 none of those things are still there.

quote:

Originally posted by D99:
Apartheid was a managment tool. There was no crime, everyone had a job that wanted one, and the place was safe.

That is not true in all three counts but i think I understand what you are trying to say

No one can defend apartheid. No one can defend what Mugabe is doing.

Here's a test, if Mugabe was a white man, what would the world be doing? I suspect Kofi and Thabo would be a bit more involved than they are now.

Regards,

Terry

Terry,
The problem is Zim has no oil, no gold, no diamonds, just....... animals

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:
As bad as things are, they will never be as unfair as apartheid. Thank god racist governments are gone from Africa.

Jason

JBrown

I fully understand the sarcasm in your post.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:
Terry,
The problem is Zim has no oil, no gold, no diamonds, just....... animals

Zim does have some strategic metals, but you are correct. If Rwanda was a big safari destination, we would all be complaining about the atrocities that occurred there. And the world would be much more involved in Zim if oil was involved. I suspect we would never let Nigeria go to the dogs, considering their oil production.

Africa for Africans, seems like an appropriate epitaph.

Regards,

Terry

Are you kidding,Ian Smith was the best thing to happen to Rhodesia.Considering How Mugabe
has worked out.....

BFAUCETT,"GOOD ON YA MATE"
And the world thought we were the Bad Guys.
Rhodesia Forever!!!!!

I guess Mugabe is still pissed off about his luggage porter days. Maybe someone didn't tip him enough. Ah, who knows.

One thing is for sure, he's a racist.

quote:

Originally posted by D99:
Apartheid was a managment tool.

"...and a swastika is just a Tibetan good-luck charm."
-Robin Williams.

J. Brown and Nitro X,
The road to hell is paved with good intentions...

Zimbabwe is headed for starvation mode, and hungry bush Africans can be a formidable foe to all in their country, and this regime is headed into mass graves of all colors IMO, Mugabe and his clan are no less than crocodiles, they will eat anything of flesh that get in their way and it has nothing to do with your idealistic rediculas posts....It is prejudice in reverse and yes that happens, prejudice is not color coded for your information.

Zimbabwe and the former Soviet Union together held about 95% of the world's chromium deposits, an essential component in the armamemt industry. Zimb also has quite a bit of platinum.

Regarding the apartheid issue on it's face value, it's totally indefensible. The real issue is the removal of apartheid clearly exposed that when everything was made "equal" some were less equal than others.

If you think "all men are created equal," how do we explain John Holmes and Albert Einstein? jorge

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:
Terry,
The problem is Zim has no oil, no gold, no diamonds, just....... animals

And if it wasn't for the fact that it is the cheapest destination for the Big 4 none of you guys would give a shit about it either.

Remember in 1985 there were more Black Millionaires in the RSA than in the entire rest of Africa combined. Blacks, in the RSA, owned more cars than in all of the rest of Africa combined. J-Burg was one of the World's safiest cities and the RSA one of the safiest Countries.

Yeah, there was a price. But also remember that a huge number of the Blacks in the RSA were immigrants or from immigrant families that came from all over Southern Africa because of the lure of jobs, Heath Care and a Future with Hope.

Things they didn't have in Zambia, Malawi, Rhodesia, Mozambique or Angola. Things they still don't have.

Do they still have this in the RSA or is it gone there now too?

My wife, being a white moderate south african can tell you stories of how the blacks behave onces they have no leech on !
We here in the western world are afraid to call things as we are seing them! It is simply not political correct! Everybody seems to be submissive to this "political correctness".

quote:

JBrown

I fully understand the sarcasm in your post.

Nitro
I am glad someone did! Racism is alive and well, only now(in political terms) it is reversed and unchecked.

D99
As to having "never be to Africa", I have been on the ground getting to know the place for thirteen weeks over the past few years. My post was an attempt to highlight the irony of the current situation.


Jason

quote:

Originally posted by jens poulsen:
My wife, being a white moderate south african can tell you stories of how the blacks behave onces they have no leech on !
We here in the western world are afraid to call things as we are seing them! It is simply not political correct! Everybody seems to be submissive to this "political correctness".

Jens

I doubt that there are very many here on this Forum that were ever in RSA during the Apartheid Years. Most of what they know about it is what they read in the papers, or in school books.

Hell there are numerous countries that still use the Apartheid scheme in order to survive. There will be others in the future that do the same. How does a country any country eleminate the incentive to illegal immegration. Even in post-apartheid RSA the black squaters, people that came in illegally have no status in the country. They are forbidden to vote and get services at state expense. The same as when the whites were in power. But black crime agains blacks can't be racist even if the effect is identical. If Isreal let as many Palastinians in that want in and let them breed like flies it wont be too many years before one person one vote gets the Isralis booted out of their own country. By the way the USA is headed to the same end if we don't stop the scourge from the south.

I was in S. Africa in the apartheid days and regardless of whatever you want to say about it, it was a much nicer place to visit. The country and city of Jo'burg were MUCH cleaner and safer. The city went from being one of the safest cities in the world to being one of the most dangerous and the "rape capital of the world". Jo'burg airport was clean and orderly back then, now its just another third world example of chaos. The first trip I made there in the 70's they told me they thought S.A. was about 20 years behind the U.S., on my most recent trip a couple years ago, it seemed to me that they have gone backward at least another 20. You can be sure that the things that are happening in Zim now are not intended to benefit any race, only Mugabe and his band of criminals.

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:
As bad as things are, they will never be as unfair as apartheid. Thank god racist governments are gone from Africa.

Jason

Jason

In fact if you or anyone else thinks apartheid per se is gone from the WORLD please THINK AGAIN ...

Apartheid in SA (in theory) was a good thing as principly it attempted to give (each racial group tribe) or whatever label we care to use control over their own affairs EXCEPT of cource the black tribes were starting off at a distinctive disadvantage and the system was manipulated by the encumbent polititians as they all do, regardless of colour.

Just leaving SA aside for one moment, only a FOOL cant see that (worldwide) all groupings of people are wanting to be master of their own destiny based either upon race tribe religion nationality or any other differnce you can conceive //

To name just a few instances

IRAQ - sunni, shite, kurd
India - hindu, seik
Ireland - Catholic, Protestant
Zimbabwe - shona, matabele
SA - Zulu, africanners, rooineks, and the other dozen or so tribes
USA - red states, blue states,
USA - federal government, state governments - Katrina highlighted some problems when the chips were down
WORLD - men, women, liberals, conservatives, greenies, hunters, rich, poor, etc etc etc

The list goes on and on

The OLD Soviet Union tried to hold it together, what happined in the end.

And as for the United Nations, that is one of the biggest corrupt inept money wasting cock ups the world has known since the end of WW2 all in the name of trying to make us all the same ... IT DONT WORK MATE (-:



If we run through many many other countries of the world the people are still divided upon tribal religious or racial differences AND our (supposed intelligent western leaders) in particular want us ALL to be the same, it might sound good in theory to all be the same BUT in reality it (wont happen in the next 50 + years or IF EVER as we all know that this separation of humans has been going on since before the year DOT so what gives you or others any hope that us humans can change it ...

Call me pessimistic if you want BUT untill you or anyone else can prove me wrong universally I will not change my point of view, humans by their very nature always want to think their grouping is right and want to control their own affairs, hell that is human nature and within our make up.

To state the obvious ///

EVEN countries per se cant agree on the meaning of a single WORD being terrorism, so how the hell can we ever get on collectively if a word cant even be agreed upon and divides us

Peter

The only difference between Southern Africa now and 100 years ago is that they have more efficient ways of killing each other. The only difference between Kofi and Bob is that Kofi has a better tailor.

Peter(Bala Bala)

I guess you missed my second post:

quote:

quote:
JBrown
I fully understand the sarcasm in your post.
(From NitroX)


Nitro
I am glad someone did! Racism is alive and well, only now(in political terms) it is reversed and unchecked.

D99
As to having "never be to Africa", I have been on the ground getting to know the place for thirteen weeks over the past few years. My post was an attempt to highlight the irony of the current situation.


Jason

In the first post I was attempting to use sarcasm to point out that things are less fair than the once were.

By the way, I just returned from traveling around Zambia(solo, on local busses). Now THAT is my type of country, nice people, not much crime and the people all seem to get along.

Jason

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
J. Brown and Nitro X,
The road to hell is paved with good intentions...

Zimbabwe is headed for starvation mode, and hungry bush Africans can be a formidable foe to all in their country, and this regime is headed into mass graves of all colors IMO, Mugabe and his clan are no less than crocodiles, they will eat anything of flesh that get in their way and it has nothing to do with your idealistic rediculas posts....It is prejudice in reverse and yes that happens, prejudice is not color coded for your information.

Ray

To help you with such words and phrases such as "idealistic rediculas posts", and also assist you with understanding more sophisticated aspects of the English language, please refer to http:://dictionary.reference.com

From http://dictionary.reference.com

quote:

2 entries found for sarcasm.
sar·casm ( P ) Pronunciation Key (särkzm)
n.
A cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound.
A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule.
The use of sarcasm. See Synonyms at wit1.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Late Latin sarcasmus, from Greek sarkasmos, from sarkazein, to bite the lips in rage, from sarx, sark-, flesh.]

[Download Now or Buy the Book]
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


sarcasm

n : witty language used to convey insults or scorn; "he used sarcasm to upset his opponent"; "irony is wasted on the stupid"; "Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own"--Johathan Swift [syn: irony, satire, caustic remark]

Note my paragraph above was designed to be cutting, sarcastic, caustic, scornful, designed to insult and upset, among other things.

Here endeth the English lesson in sarcasm for the day.

JBrown's post was of course said "with a sarcastic intention" against the so-called Liberals of the world with a degree of dry "irony" in the historical effect of Liberal politics.

PS I have posted enough vitriol about Zimbabwe's government and politics and Robber Bob on these and other forums that no one should doubt my beliefs.

I have always been consistent in these beliefs and what Zimbabwe is, unlike a member or two on these boards.

Guests

I was watching satellite TV news today in dear old sheep ridden NZ ..

YES we do have mod cons over here downunder like sattelite TV

I noticed at the UN dear old Robber Bob in full linguistic mode berating the coalition partners and seemingly in particular the USA, he VERBALLY put the boot into the USA where it hurts most, in government policy ...

I hope you guys, OR more correctly your GOVERNMENT members remember that when BOB asks your government for some more GIFT MONEY (-; that they are not BLIND to the POLITICS and ANTICS of COMRADE dictator BOB and others whom shall remain nameless as remember what I am saying to you,

CHINA is in BOB'S pocket BIG TIME and we need to be very cognisant of that, also CHINA and Cuba are hand in glove bosum buddies, dont forget to keep a close eye on the unfolding situation with CHINA as we might collectively in the WEST find out to our peril that they are becoming very very strong politically economically and militarily as time goes on, it worries me a lot the scenarion unfolding in front of our eyes

Peter

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

JBrown

I fully understand the sarcasm in your post.

Nitro
I am glad someone did! Racism is alive and well, only now(in political terms) it is reversed and unchecked.

D99
As to having "never be to Africa", I have been on the ground getting to know the place for thirteen weeks over the past few years. My post was an attempt to highlight the irony of the current situation.


Jason

Jason, I appologize, I didn't read it as such.

I beleive African colonialism didn't work because we quit caring about the colonials, we had two world wars and that hurt it, and then after the wars we quit caring.

I have always been consistent in these beliefs and what Zimbabwe is, unlike a member or two on these boards.[/QUOTE]

NitroX,
Do you wear jack boots, a hairy caterpillar like growth under your nose, and goose step all over the place?
Just curious.

quote:

Originally posted by Harry Jezzard:
I have always been consistent in these beliefs and what Zimbabwe is, unlike a member or two on these boards.

NitroX,
Do you wear jack boots, a hairy caterpillar like growth under your nose, and goose step all over the place?
Just curious.[/QUOTE]Harry why don't you just put a condom over your head. The big head on top of your shoulders. Make sure it goes well below the miserable excuse of a chin you have and puff and blow to your hearts discontent. Why is anyone from the Fragmented kingdom interested in guns and hunting anyway. They lost those rights a bit back and can't be trusted with guns.

Harry is probably just embarressed over the fact that England was seriously considering invading Rhodisia in support of the black terrorists, and that this plan was only twarted because Englands own officers (many of them from the various English colonies) refused to go down and fight against their white Rhodisian brothers.

God bless all those Rhodisians who fought bravely to preserve the breadbasket of southern africa, which turned into the Marxist cesspool that it is now due to the rest of the world turning it's back on reality, and being politcally correct. And cowardly...

Ps. Having been to RSA during the aparteid years, I would say that things were generally better for all back then, including the blacks, compaired to what is happening to RSA now, and the direction it is obviously going. But again the politically correct choose to close their eyes to reality.

quote:

Originally posted by Harry Jezzard:
NitroX,
Do you wear jack boots, a hairy caterpillar like growth under your nose, and goose step all over the place?
Just curious.

Only on Adolf's birthday. Thanks for asking.

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:

quote:

Originally posted by Harry Jezzard:
NitroX,
Do you wear jack boots, a hairy caterpillar like growth under your nose, and goose step all over the place?
Just curious.

Only on Adolf's birthday. Thanks for asking.

EricD
The remarks about NitroX were purely tongue in cheek(you may need to do some research to find out what this means).
I actually couldn't agree more with Mr Haan's very well articulated opinions on the situation in Zimbabwe......though,on this forum , we tend to preach to the converted.
Your comments on the officers refusing to go to the old Rhodesia are akin to the contents of a male scrotum, though I must confess it is a shameful blot on the Govt. of the day to even have contemplated taking military action against one's own kith and kin.
Talking of things military, what is the current opinion of your fellow countrymen and Govt. on the necessary action being taken against international terrorism in Afghanistan and Iraq?
And what have you done about it?

lb404
We have not had a blanket ban on gun ownership, though many of us here fear the banning of handguns for no apparent reason was the thin end of the wedge.
Gunowners here look with increasing admiration and envy at the powerful gun lobby in the States and the way it protects the individual rights of it's citizens.
Re the use of condoms, may I suggest the world would have been rather a nicer place is your father had learnt to place a condom in the right place as opposed to his head and blowing into it.....

NitroX,
Your sense of humour and (thus) your response was predictable !!

God bless all those Rhodisians who fought bravely to preserve the breadbasket of southern africa, which turned into the Marxist cesspool that it is now due to the rest of the world turning it's back on reality, and being politcally correct. And cowardly...
[/QUOTE]

EricD
Apart from asking God to bless the Rhodisians,(whoever they were) perhaps you should also ask him to bless the Rhodesians...