I hunted Cape Buffalo with a Ruger No. 1. My PH had abslutely no problem with my rifle. I also practiced, practiced, and practiced.

With the exception of the present AR company I felt I could shoot 3 rounds accurately just as fast as lot of guys can with a bolt gun who are not as prepared.

Maybe it was just ignorance but I never felt under gunned or concerned while in the Selous.

With that being said I am having a 458 Lott built on a MRC action and if I could loosen up my wallet a little it may be a double for elephant in 2010.

It wouldn't even enter my mind as an option to use a single shot on DG. I suppose the only DG animal it's even concionable (in my mind) to use a single shot on is on a baited leopard hunt and even then I'd use something else for the follow up. I probably wouldn't for plains game either, but I don't see why someone else that likes them shouldn't use one for PG.

Brett

A lot of mistaken opinions have been posted here.

First, someone said that you couldn't get off a second shot with a bolt rifle at an animal that ran away. FACT: I shot one head of DG twice. We probably would not have caught up with it if I hadn't hit it pretty hard on the SECOND shot.

Someone else said never mind quick second shots because the PH, the game scout, and the tracker could all back you up. FACT: Often there is no game scout. The tracker usually does not have a rifle. And...ever see a PH miss a whole elephant? I have.

Then there's the MYTH that you can fire multiple shots adequately fast with a single shot. FACT: Come up to Camp Perry this August where they have rapid fire matches. The semis usually win. Bolt actions sometimes win (that's right, they can beat the semis...and by implication they can beat a double). I have never seen a single shot entered. Quite simply, they don't work for fast shooting.

Another myth is the claim that the single shot shooter is more accurate, because he takes his time. Presumably the man with the magazine rifle sprays lead all over the place. The only kernel of truth to this rumor, in my opinion, is that someone who buys a rifle for a safari and never shoots or practices with it is more likely to buy a bolt rifle. The same individual would be a lousy shot with a single.

Yes a really good shot with a SS can beat some untutored lummox with a bolt rifle. But a good shot with a bolt rifle will beat a good shot with a SS every time.

Personally I would not hunt any big game with a single shot.

quote:

Originally posted by yellowstone:
I've been reading this post with interest from the get go and as usual there's no definitive answer, BUT, I'm really going to step in it this time. (1) If we all could afford a double rifle we probably would have never had reason to get to page 2 of this thread. and (2) Why hasn't somebody developed a DG semi-automatic? Seems like AK's, M-14's, and Garands have been pretty damn reliable for about 70 years. Never mind the piece of s--t M-16. Let's see, a Garand in .458 Win Mag. hmmmmmmmmm

Why hasn't somebody developed a DG semi-automatic? Someone has:



The McCann Industries .458WM Garand.

As far as single shot rifles go, I think if you are attached to their lines or otherwise fond of them you are likely to overlook their limitations. And with enough practice you can partly compensate for their limitations. But as Ganyana pointed out, there are better options for dangerous game available. And people like him and those PHs who fire the qualifying course may use single shots for a while, but only until they can afford to arm themselves better. The famous hunters who used single shots late in the 19th and early in the last century also largely abandoned them for repeaters, once repeaters became available in effective calibers and as they could afford to do so. Can anyone name a famous ivory hunter or PH who used single shots who didn't switch to repeaters?

If single shots were just as effective as a repeating rifle on dangerous game, then men who hunted for a living and had years of experience with their single shots would have felt themselves adequately armed. But they didn't, and they switched. The may felt the single shot is prettier, more pleasing firearm, but they found the repeater to be the better tool.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think you're committing suicide if you go hunting with a single shot. But I've never fallen under the charm of single shots. So it'd be hard for me to understand an argument for taking one on dangerous game. I've never heard of a practical argument for them that makes sense.

Which is not badmouthing someone else's choices. I'm just saying that if you want to hunt dangerous game with a single shot rifle, then it must be for some other reason besides its practical suitability for the task. We are both facing the same level of risk, but you have chosen to equip yourself in a way that will make you less able to adequately deal with at least some contingencies. Single shot rifles do give something up compared with repeaters.

quote:

Originally posted by Indy:
Personally I would not hunt any big game with a single shot.

Personally, I don't care what you would or would not hunt with. Why are you so concerned with the preferences of others?

Singleshots really seem to bother some folks. I sure don't know why.

I could care less what others hunt with. And I don't know why you're getting stiff necked about some who think single shots, muzzle loaders, and handguns used on dangerous game qualifies as nothing more than some sort of ego-building stunt.

We don't fight wars with Spads, anymore. We use F-15's.

I see no percentage in possibly putting yours and others lives at unnecessary risk just so you'll have bragging rights around some future campfire about taking DG with a highwall.

Chill out.

You could care less, but never fail to take a nice swipe in closing at anyone who does differently.

Pathetic

I will hunt dangerous game with my single-shot in 2010, specifically buffalo. I will have my double and bolt with me on this hunt as well. I have only hunted and killed 3 buff, one with one shot one with two and one with three. However, there was ample time for the follow up shots on the latter two buff.

On October 23, 2008 my PH, tracker and I were pursued by two lionesses out of a blind after a slight wind swirl carried our scent back to them while they were feeding. When a lioness is 30 to 35 yards in front of you and the other is 35-40 yards to your left pushing you back 300 yards one step at a time I would challenge anyone to be able to fire more than one round out of a bolt gun in the time it took for her to nail me if she had charged from that distance. Again, on November 7, 2008 my PH, tracker and myself were charged by the same two lionesses after I shot the male. Getting off more than one accurate shot would have been impossible with any rifle at 40 yards distance.

I shoot competitively and practice off sticks and at different yardages with reloading as part of the practice. I'm as confident of my shot placement with my singles as I am with a bolt or my double. I can reload quickly with any of the rifles. That's my two cents worth.

Dutch

Who in the heck resurrected this old heap?? As we all know, opinions are like assholes, everyone seems to have one, and some guys seem to have two. But here's the straight an narrow of it-if it's your friggin money, hunt with whatever you want, I didn't notice any of those advocating a single asking you guys with doubles/bolt to pay for their trip anywhere. You pay for it, your PH agrees with it and it is legal then to hell with all the internet heroes, do it how you want to. Of course if you screw the pooch take the heat for it but that all goes with making your own decisions, or at least it should.

I don't have a problem with folks using single shot rifles on big game. Their choice, their hunt. It's been done countless times and undoubtedly will be done many times more.

Personally I would prefer a bolt or a double and I allude to my original post from 2007: Renowned author and fine gentleman Larry Weihshun shot a cape buff with a single shot TC in 416 Rigby. The range was short. At the shot the buffalo wheeled AWAY from the hunters.

It took Larry almost 9 seconds to effect a reload (I know, I taped it & timed it and even asked him personally at DSC). Had the buff turned TOWARDS them, there is no way he would have gotten of a shot in time. No way. Remember he was using a TC which also requires the hammer to be cocked in addition to breaking the action and reloading. Anybody that says they can reload as fast as a bolt with a TC (or any other weapon with a hammer) either can't tell time or is being less than candid. jorge

Well gentlemen, there we have it! Some will, some will not, and IMO all "will" if that is all they have at any given time!

So it all boils down to do as it suits you, and appologise to nobody for your choice, unless they are paying the bill, and disagree with your choice, then try to convence them!

Me personally, I will, have, and will again, and I'll make the final statement here. I can re-load a big bore Ruger single shot and get back on target, and hit what I'm shooting at as fast as I can with a big bore bolt rifle, and the only legal thing that will get the second shot off faster, and on target than those two is a double rifle!

So to the origenal poster, do your thing, unless the person paying for the hunt tells you to use something else! I have an idea you will be asking yourself if you should, not someone else!

quote:

Who in the heck resurrected this old heap?

Looks like that honor goes to Grenadier...

Jetdriver, you sound like someone that started hunting with a 30-30 lever action and a semi auto shotgun.

I'll hunt with just about anything if somebody else is paying the way. I guess Larry Weihshun can't outwhore me. If I'm paying though you can keep the single shots.

I have been a single shot guy my whole life. No, I can't reload one as fast as a bolt gun but for non-dangerous game I won't use anything else.

For DG, put me down for a nice double rifle.

These were taken with my Martini/Hagn 300 win mag.

j

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Dangerous game? NO!

Plains game? Yes!
465H&H

X2

Deleting, as I realize I am probably fuller of shit than most on this thread ...

Saying that a person can reload a single shot as fast as a bolt action is just plain nonsense. If someone can load a single shot as fast as someone with a bolt action then the person with the bolt action needs more practice.

I was reading Craig Boddington's Where Lions Roar and on pages 256 and 257 I came across this little snippet that fits this topic.

quote:

I had the Dakota single-shot .375 rested and ready, and as soon as the vertical wire passed the off-front leg the rifle went off. The bull lurched, hard hit, then turned away and showed its broad behind as it cantered through the trees. This is a classic reaction to the first shot, and this is where, with a double or magaziine rifle, you give it a solid through the rear. But I didn't have a double or a magazine rifle.

Dangerous game with a single-shot was an experiment for me. I've used Ruger Number Ones a lot on lesser game, and I'd practiced a lot with this rifle. I'd anticipated exactly this moment, and I had extra cartridges between the fingers of my supporting hand - I thought I was ready.

There was lots of time; I could have emptied a bolt action - possibly I could have emptied and reloaded a double. But the Dakota single-shot, an unusually beautiful and smooth-handling rifle, doesn't eject. Eyes on the buffalo, I cleared the empty, started to stuff a fresh .375 Dakota cartridge into the chamber, and realized I'd never make it - the trees were now closing around the departing buffalo.

At my shoulder, ready, Russ said calmly, "Do you want me to shoot him?"

Unprintable affirmative. His .416 Heym went off and the bull vanished, then reappeared again through the trees. Then it slowed, stumbled in a half-circle, and went down.

My X-bullet from the fast .375 Dakota had pierced its heart and all the rest was window dressing, but that first shot might not have been so perfect and there was nothing I could have done about it. Food for thought.

Interesting reading, graybird.

As someone said, these threads are odd.

A person starts a thread and says he enjoys using a particular rifle, then asks for opinions from others if they would also want to use it for a particular task he has in mind.

If I say no, I wouldn't, and say why, all of a sudden I'm "badmouthing" or "denigrating" the other man's weapon. It never occurs to third parties who don't like the answer that there may be a valid reason for my preference for a different rifle.

If you want to hunt dangerous game with a single shot rifle just because you want to hunt with a single shot rifle, great. If you ask me if I would do the same thing, no I wouldn't. And I have a valid reason for it. I believe the single shot rifle would be a handicap in the field for follow-up shots under certain circumstances, which could endanger myself, others, or just allow a wounded animal to escape if for any reason no one else but I could take that shot.

I'll admit the single shot shooting society may have a more finely developed sense of aesthetics than I do since I am not charmed by the beauty or history of single shots. But I say that we bolt action rifle users have a better sense of humor.

Because I can appreciate the humor when you single shot rifle users agree that we don't know what we're talking about, then start contradicting yourselves as to why we're wrong. One contingent insists that with practice the single shot is just as fast if not faster than the bolt action rifle for repeat shots, the second contingent because it says having one shot is part of the challenge of hunting with one and dangerous game hunting is all about taking risks, and a third because I won't be facing any increased risk as I can rely on my PH to back me up at all times.

Have I missed anybody?

quote:

Originally posted by China Fleet Sailor:

Because I can appreciate the humor when you single shot rifle users agree that we don't know what we're talking about, then start contradicting yourselves as to why we're wrong. One contingent insists that with practice the single shot is just as fast if not faster than the bolt action rifle for repeat shots, the second contingent because it says having one shot is part of the challenge of hunting with one and dangerous game hunting is all about taking risks, and a third because I won't be facing any increased risk as I can rely on my PH to back me up at all times.

Have I missed anybody?

I have one more excuse er I mean reason. Right after I booked my first trip I ordered a 458 Lott in a MRC action. I knew timing would be close, but I had my No. 1 for backup, I still do not have the Lott complete and started it almost a year ago. BTW I shoot left handed. I could have used a push feed Remington or a 45-70 lever because they are readily available for people in their right mind. Please appreciate the intended humor.

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
Sorry, Charlie. My post was the 79th in this thread. Go back to the top.

The question was "Who resurrected this?" You posted to a thread that had been dead for more than a year, bringing it back up.

He did not ask who started the thread.

Why did you decide to revive it? Just curious.

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
Gosh, I didn't even notice the dates! There was no conscious decision to revive anything. Sometimes I search the forums looking for something interesting to read. By default, the search results are not listed by date but I usually modify the search to put the most recent posts at the top. I guess I found something interesting in the posts, didn't realize it was an old thread, and responded. If I dug up a topic that is no longer relevant please forgive me.

I am sure the topic is still relevant, and if you had not revived the thread someone else would probably have started a new one before too long. We have plenty of recurring themes around here.

Sometimes people revive old threads to stir things up or for self-serving reasons. Thus we get curious at times.

quote:

Originally posted by Jarrod:
Saying that a person can reload a single shot as fast as a bolt action is just plain nonsense. If someone can load a single shot as fast as someone with a bolt action then the person with the bolt action needs more practice.

Did you ever think you may need more practice with a single shot? My comment was in regard to a Ruger No1, not just any single shot!
As far as Larry takeing 9 seconds to reload a 416Rigby chambered TC encore, I don't doubt it. Those things are nothing but gloryfied exposed hammer pistols with long barrels. I have several TC pistols and they are the pitts to reload, especially in large chamberings. My largest is a 16" barreled 411JDJ. The Ruger No1 is not a TC, I assure you, and I am not Larry Weishum!

quote:

origenally posted by Ganyana

As I have said this several times before- old AH members please bear with me. Every few years we see an apprentice PH turn up on our proficiency exam with a ruger No 1 in 375. Every candidate that has used that rifle has passed the shooting test - including the speed shooting (see African Reference section on the forum). Many people with bolt actions fail...

Every candidate that has used it has bought a better rifle as soon as he was able to afford one

For a client- No problem hunting dangerous game. All the guys I have guided against elephant, buff and lion with muzzel loaders only had a single shot and a Ruger No1 sure as heck beats a front loader!

Just practice with it, learn to love it and minimize it's weaknesses. I love the classic single shots and have a lovely Gibbs Farqueson - the perfect plains rifle and several Martini Henries I have also used. Had a Webly 1904 SS in .450 NE that was my back up rifle for a few years until I could afford something more functional (but sadly not as aesthetically pleasing or as fun to use!)

............