Molepolole

quote:

There are a lot of guys here saying that inches absolutely don't matter. Really? Well, I have yet to hear that being said by any guy hunting elephant or buffalo.

Look at my posting on karamoja and see how much I cared about inches. Also as Steve or Philip if I ever worried about inches.

Never heard a peep out of him about inches at all and in fact, we turned down a very respectable buffalo because his preference was for a scrumcap.

I keep a record of measurements for my PH register and all but the buff (for obvious reasons) made the book..... some very highly but despite being told, he didn't ask the measurement or how high in the book the trophies were.

Hooker, Phillip and I spent a large part of the safari laughing and having fun and that to me (along with the good hunting) is the most memorable part of any hunt.

OK OOKKK OK Steve tell the whole story all of it including the part about where you where afraid I would riun your reputation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you guys would love Steve and Philips since of HUmors dam my face hurt from laughing.Steve's fun but Philip is sharpe as a new straight razor. you have to be on your best at all times with these two

As a PH I have all kinds, I have had a Russian that didn’t know anybody measured trophies.
Clients that want “if Possible a bigger trophy” no point in having 2 50 inch Kudu, A client even gave me a laminated list of what minimum sizes the animal should be (you know that was a fun hunt).

At the end of the day everybody has different goals and we are all right as long as firstly hunt for the challenge, enjoyment of the hunt and we don’t find ourselves wanting to shoot from a helicopter because of a 50 inch buffalo.

And if you don’t want to end up with a mountain buffalo its what Molepolole said.
“The "experience" of the hunt is going after a good mature representative of that species in the area you are hunting. If you're going to tell your PH, "I'll shoot anything you tell me to shoot because I don't know what a trophy size _______ is" then you haven't done your homework and could be setting yourself up to be taken advantage of by a lazy PH.

Learn about the animals you will be hunting BEFORE your safari, and then tell your PH what your hopes and expectations are. Otherwise, you could be coming home from Africa with sub-standard animals and then write an article on your hunt”

quote:

then you haven't done your homework and could be setting yourself up to be taken advantage of by a lazy PH.

Learn about the animals you will be hunting BEFORE your safari, and then tell your PH

I would add...learn about your PH before your safari.

Let me clarify my self. I know what a good looks like,I appriceate large animals, But I'm not a fan of measuerments for measurements sack, this Hunt was exploritory and a once in a life time chance to hunt Karamoja after 30 yrs of closure there. and it could not have turned out any better if you had written a script for it. and I did get some very very nice animals. thanks to Steve and Philip being totaly professional and ethical. and I got to meet Lane and Nigel too. along with jason and his dad and others during flights. Thank You to everyone. especialy Saeed for this forum

I just got a PM asking who Philip is. he's a member here and for more info you can email him

Ltd Karamojo Safari
P. O. Box 23557 Kampala - Uganda
email: info@karamojosafari.com

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:

Mark Young said a lot in his post above, as have others. I don't give a damn how anybody else hunts but I do believe there is enough shite generated by the antis that we ought to try to accept and respect the choices of all hunters.

Semper Fi

Really all that needs to be said!!

Guys I somewhat agree...but...as with any group who wants to be treated with respect...we do have to maintain some standards and police ourselves.

quote:

Guys I somewhat agree...but...as with any group who wants to be treated with respect...we do have to maintain some standards and police ourselves.

After having read all the responses, and even though I will never get the chance to hunt Africa, this statement is the only one I have some trouble with.

My trouble is, who is going to police the police.

Not to highjack this excellent thread, but what happens if some of the "Police", possibly the more influential ones, decide that there should be "Minimums" on certain species, and those "Minimums" are based on trophy size with the age of the animal and its place in the overall herds dynamics, not taken into account.

What of some of the police "decide" that only say 40 inch buffalo should be killed, even though some areas rarely if ever produce animals that size, yet with no real mention of killing the older animals that on their best day won't measure 34 inches.

I can see the concept of wanting to put our best foot forward as sportsmen/women and conservationists, and actually show that our efforts are aimed at helping the species we hunt and not destroying them.

In reality however, I know that human greed and envy, along with the political instability in many of the countries where hunting is allowed, makes doing things that give all of us a black eye relatively simple.

I think the concept of shooting good representative mature animals is what should be worked toward, and hunting by the tape needs to take somewhat of a back seat to that.

JMO, but hunting for the best animal available in a given area is one thing, hunting to gain recognition in a "Book" seems to me to take something from the experience, again JMO.

Ross,

The point is you hunted with Dean. He is a man of integrity and that is one reason he works for us. Some PH's are not men of integrity and would love to have a novice show up with no trophy expectations.

Hunting with solid ideas about trophy expectations is only a problem when the scores over shadow all the rest of the safari. A hunter with this attitude in my opinion has lost sight of the safari "expereince". This is the kind of guy that PH's often have a hard time with. On the other hand when a good PH finds out you have specific but realistic trophy standards and your not going to go into a funk because you don't find trophies to meet those standards he often is a very happy guy. Good PH's enjoy hunting for big trophies if they don't feel pressured.

I would not sell you a safari where I PROMISED any size trophies or for that matter a trophy at all. I would however be very happy to talk about what I would THINK was realistic.

Mark

quote:

I can see the concept of wanting to put our best foot forward as sportsmen/women and conservationists, and actually show that our efforts are aimed at helping the species we hunt and not destroying them.

Crazy,

This is basically what I meant. As a group we need to be seen as putting our best foot forward. The term "police" might not have been appropriate.

Sooooo, I am guessing everyone here would pass up a 100# of ivory on day one for 40# on day 10?

Because it is all about the experience. right?

Most posters here would be pissing their drawers if they even saw a 100# Ele!

quote:

Originally posted by Duckear:
Sooooo, I am guessing everyone here would pass up a 100# of ivory on day one for 40# on day 10?

Because it is all about the experience. right?

Hell no!!!

I go back to the old saying I quote all the time: "ya know when the best time to shoot a really big _______(insert any animal here) is?" Answer usually: "No...when???" I say: "Whenever the hell you see it and don't study too long either!"

My PH measured my animals without my requesting it and would tell me the buff's width or Bushbuck length, etc... I didn't press him nor was I upset with the quality of my animals.

We passed on a mature male lion on day 9 so he could get me a larger one. His decision. I didn't argue. Last day with 10 minutes of light left I did get a larger one. The only other one we ever saw near the bait. The hunt was exhilarating and the size of my lion was satisfying. I'm looking at him as I type this. I am well pleased.

Dutch

a little common sence goes a long way with this thread. as it does in the animals you diside to take.

quote:

The term "police" might not have been appropriate.

Appopriate or not, my hat is off to you sir for the work you are doing.

I haven't turned anything in for "the book" for quite a few years, but I still measure what I shoot if it looks like a decent trophy. Don't see a problem with doing that. Don't golfers, tennis players, bowlers, usually "keep score". Why not hunters?

quote:

Don't golfers, tennis players, bowlers, usually "keep score". Why not hunter?s

When did Hunting become a Competitive Sport?

That attitude is just exactly what is wrong with hunting in Texas today, Big $$$$$'s for Big Bucks.

I shot my Cape Buffalo in December of 2008. The mount will be done in two weeks. I still haven't put a tape to him, and told my taxidermist not to.
He's a good bull, and that is all I care to say.

Rich
DRSS

Hey Rich,

Everybody knows Rangers can't count; so what difference does it make?

Semper Fi!

On my first trip to Africa I was reading a story about a man that passed on some type of deer (I think) because it was the first day and he wasn't going to shoot the first one he saw. The thought he was crazy. One of the other guys in his group shot it a couple days later. It is the number two in the record book. I could memorize the record book, but I would still be at the mercy of the PH to judge trophy quality because I am out of my element.

I was at Steve's mercy and dam glad of it to!!! the proof is in the pictures we posted

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

When did Hunting become a Competitive Sport?

At least as far back when the first two hunters compared their respective kills.


Human nature.

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At least as far back when the first two hunters compared their respective kills.

Very good point. I would venture it was the first competitive sport.

As to Duckear's response, IMO, that line of reasoning is total
The old slimy green smelly type.

Maybe I am reading too many of the responses wrong on this topic, but most people seem to feel that the merits of a "Trophy" lie soley in the thoughts and concepts of the INDIVIDUAL that shot it.

The fact that some folks are reducing hunting into a "GAME OF INCHES & $$$$$$ SPENT" is on the whole doing more harm than good, and that is from personal observations of what is happening/has happened to deer hunting in Texas.

How many of you INCH Hunters would be so concerned about it, IF B&C/P&Y/SCI/Rowland Ward, only listed the animals size and the location of the kill and made NO MENTION AT ALL OF THE HUNTER that killed the critter, or the guide/outfitter/PH, that put the hunter in position to make the kill?

JMO, but the attitude that hunting and /or fishing are competitive sports, is really a pathetic reflection of the human pysche.

It is really sad to think that some folks have lost the concept of hunting for the sake of hunting, with the kill being the end result and only a minor part of the experience, and replaced that with anything shot has to be of a certain score or medal class.

I hunt to hunt, anything I kill is a trophy to me, and no, I am not of the group that doesn't really care if they kill something or not, I pick up the gun, the first legal whatever it is, is going to die.

If a person wants to make a game out of it, worry about inches and fractions of inches, go for it, I just don't agree with it.

Again, this is all JMO, your mileage will probably vary, and that is not a bad thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
As to Duckear's response, IMO, that line of reasoning is total
The old slimy green smelly type.

Maybe I am reading too many of the responses wrong on this topic, but most people seem to feel that the merits of a "Trophy" lie soley in the thoughts and concepts of the INDIVIDUAL that shot it.

The fact that some folks are reducing hunting into a "GAME OF INCHES & $$$$$$ SPENT" is on the whole doing more harm than good, and that is from personal observations of what is happening/has happened to deer hunting in Texas.

How many of you INCH Hunters would be so concerned about it, IF B&C/P&Y/SCI/Rowland Ward, only listed the animals size and the location of the kill and made NO MENTION AT ALL OF THE HUNTER that killed the critter, or the guide/outfitter/PH, that put the hunter in position to make the kill?

JMO, but the attitude that hunting and /or fishing are competitive sports, is really a pathetic reflection of the human pysche.

It is really sad to think that some folks have lost the concept of hunting for the sake of hunting, with the kill being the end result and only a minor part of the experience, and replaced that with anything shot has to be of a certain score or medal class.

I hunt to hunt, anything I kill is a trophy to me, and no, I am not of the group that doesn't really care if they kill something or not, I pick up the gun, the first legal whatever it is, is going to die.

If a person wants to make a game out of it, worry about inches and fractions of inches, go for it, I just don't agree with it.

Again, this is all JMO, your mileage will probably vary, and that is not a bad thing.

Hmmmm, per your website, while you don't 'agree', you sure seem to be willing to make a buck off of it.

quote:

Update: I am please to announce that I have joined forces with a long time friend, Robert Stewart, in a new hunting operation that he has started.

Stewart Ranch Enterprises is based out of Olney Texas in Young county and has properties in Archer, Baylor, Young, and Throckmorton counties, in the North Central area of Texas south of Wichita Falls.


Hunting opportunities are just part of Stewart Ranch Enterprises businesses, which include a Grocery Store in Olney and farming and cattle operations on some of the properties they own.

Hunting opportunities for the following species can be arranged on these properties.

White tail Deer, Trophy Buck / Management Buck / Antlerless Only , or combinations of these.

I personally like when a client truly appreciates a large trophy I helped him take. I hunt because I love both "The Hunt" AND I love the excitement of seeing (and hopefully getting) a HUGE trophy. I've had clients who shot top ten animal and barely cracked a smile, and couldn't care less about record books; and on the other side of the coin, guys who were totally obscessed with "The Tale Of The Tape", feeling the only true gauge of a sucessful safari is how many animals went high in rankings of RW & SCI books. I guess both types can do as they wish, as they are paying the bills; but (IMO) both types are a bit wrong. The best clients are the ones who enjoy working hard for a trophy, and also truly appreciates the size of a high scoring trophy when he gets one. Like all things in life: The best is to keep a happy balance, and thank God most of my clients have been fairly balanced on this subject.

But one time I had an elderly gentleman on safari. The first morning he informs me that each & EVERY animal he takes MUST make Gold Medal SCI!!!! (Can you believe the pressure this puts on a PH?) It was even made worse because he could not see half the animals, and when he did shoot, missed by feet...not inches. Needless to say, he didn't take home many animals.

Had he been an "average" hunter & shot and not been obscessed with seeing his name perched on the very tippy top of the SCI book; he would have taken a very good number very decent heads, some which were oustanding low to mid book trophies (passed up); a couple which could have been darn close to Gold Medal (which he missed). He was a nice old guy, but who set his bar unrealistically high... all things considered.

I had another client who came to tanzania for his first DG hunt (7 day buffalo). First morning we tracked two dugga bull buffalo. After a two hour walk, we came on them, one was exceptional with deep drop and about 41" to 42" & hard boss. The guy would not shoot, saying his friend told him to absolutely not shoot any buffalo under 45" period!! I told him "Sir, your friend does not know shit about real buffalo hunting, and to please shoot this beautiful bull and that we can try to find a 45" later for your 2nd bull". No dice. I said OK, its your hunt. Well, after talking sense to him in camp, he ended up shooting a great 41" and a not so great 38" (that he wanted badly to shoot on last day because it was "so much fun") LISTEN TO YOUR PH. as most PHs only want you to go home with very good animals.

for my personal hunted trophies, I would rather shoot a big mature animal by way of a long hard stalk; than by taking a real monster by just stepping out of the car, (although it's tough to to not be fairly happy with good luck when a big trophy just falls into your lap!!). A wise hunter once said: "NOT THE TROPHY BUT THE CHASE...NOT THE QUARRY BUT THE RACE"

But of course the best hunts are a combination of good stalking AND good inches on the tape! Best try to keep a happy balance somehow.

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by LionHunter:

Mark Young said a lot in his post above, as have others. I don't give a damn how anybody else hunts but I do believe there is enough shite generated by the antis that we ought to try to accept and respect the choices of all hunters.

Semper Fi



Really all that needs to be said!!

Aaron Neilson
Global Hunting Resources

+ 1 !

No DuckEar, the only hunter we had after deer this year was happy with taking one of our cull bucks.

He enjoyed his hunt and we enjoyed guiding him.

See one of the things you do not comprehend, is that we only do low fence hunts, and there are trophy animals on the properties, but since we can not or do not GUARANTEE anyone's success in getting one of them, we don't get many folks wanting to try for a trophy.

Also, we don't charge anything for a trophy buck until after it is down.

We offer a hunting opportunity, it is up to the shooter to decide on what they want.

I don't shoot buck white tails myself, I hunt does, and really care less about what another person wants to hunt, with that said, I still think, and this was my original concept that hunting is NOT a competetive sport.

You want to believe it is, that is your business,but I still think it is

Having lost a substantial percentage of my nest egg in the highly manipulated financial markets my ability to hunt in africa has been greatly compromised. I do plan to continue to go when I can, with the best outfitter I can afford.

The hunt, if and when it occurs, will not be with an outfit that has the best pool, finest meals, and five star accomodations with a promise of mediocre trophies. Most of us who hunt Africa on our own dime have always worked to a standard. When hunting, I have a standard as well. A mature representative of the species is what the standard calls for.

At the end of the day the only person who needs to be satisfied with the result of a safari is the man who paid for it. If he likes young bulls, scrum cap bulls, or even a cow, if it's legal, so be it. There are too many people trying to make their ideas the law of the land in things that are none of their business.

I've reached a point where I'm actually looking for an animal that may not be huge but is definitely old. Last trip I took a gemsbok that had lost all of its teeth. The poor thing was desperately cropping the grass and it was all falling out of its mouth. You could see the hip bones! Yeah, I shot that one in a heartbeat. My kind of trophy.

quote:

A guy that comes to a safari operator and says he doesn't care about trophy size or nice accommodations is a perfect mark to get f---ed. The client going in has low expectations and if he has a crappy safari? Well that's what he asked for.

On my very first hunt in Africa, Roy picked us up at Vic Falls airport, and while we were drivbing to the camp in Matetsi, he asked me what trophies I was look for.

I was on a 21 day hunt, so told him there nothing in particular, and that I would shoot whatever is available.

At the end of the hunt, I think I shot about 27 animals, 17 of which are record book trophies, and one could have been a #1 reedbuck.

An honest PH will always do his best for his client.

Saeed
100% You nailed it on the head. and again Thank You STEVE for a wonderful hunt and experience