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Exactly and the PH is ultimately responsible. LCTF has raised awareness to the shooting of young Lions but this movement should be concentrating on the PH bodies and associated Game Departments rather than the individual hunters. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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"But the LCTF has successfully joined forces with scientists and politicians to “fix” something that is not broken." Hey Brad, tell that to the "Anti's" who are throwing millions of dollars, high-priced lawyers, and previous case law - at the USFWS, in a monstrous effort to up-list the lion. Perhaps the hunting community as a whole should have just submitted a "one-line" response the potential up-listing/USFWS as, "Don't fix it, if it ain't broke"? Enough said, right??  Folks - To me, the quote above from Brad's OP is the main issue at hand. To assume, pretend or think there is/was "nothing broken" is absurd, period! Factually supported by entire organizations like DSC, PH's, outfitters, conservationists and scientists - supporting a comprehensive overhaul of previous lion hunting practices. It doesn't mean we as hunters have been intentionally "bad" stewards of the lion, it simply means that as the science/knowledge of lion dynamics has progressed, so has the best conservation minded lion hunting practices, PERIOD!!! To think that wildlife management doesn't/shouldn't progress with the best available, most updated info, is crazy!!! But yet, some people seem very annoyed by the facts - those pesky facts that seem to get in the way frequently of the Utopian idea that "Nothing" is/was wrong, and status quo is/was the way to go?? I/we totally agree that "conservation minded lion hunting" is not a threat to the lion's future, at all. We are simply wanting/needing the hunting community to make conservation minded decisions, as they apply to harvesting lions (based on best available science) - thus taking away any/all ammo that the antis might have to throw us under the bus, as the responsible party for any potential demise of the lion. Plus, simply doing what is right/best for the lion himself! What's wrong with that? Interestingly enough, some of you guys seem to think that your opinion is the - "right" opinion of Lane, me, the LCTF, etc? Yet, one look at my inbox of supporters from AR, the ENTIRE organization of DSC, and over 70 worldwide PH's, outfitters, conservationists and other organizations (with much more knowledge/experience in the matter) that support our "definition", and agree a change in lion hunting practices was needed (otherwise none of them would have supported it) compared to a few on AR - tells me differently. The hypocrisy here sometimes is quite frankly, amazing! Lane and I are called zealots, bullies, anti-hunters, arrogant, controlling, narcissists, ego-maniacs, and so on. But let us try to correct what is an obvious in-accuracy is the estimation of a lion's age, based on the time/effort/energy we've spent learning about "most accurate" lion age estimations - and we're just the anti-christ? Really, good lord! When our intention, as pointed out several times, is simply trying to be most accurate in age estimations, so as to help educate everyone, nothing more! At no time did anyone question the taking of said lion, its legality, or its exceptional trophy quality - not once. I never set out to win a popularity contest, I set out to do the best I could to help save, protect, and prolong the lion, and future lion hunting. I can't say every decision/choice I have made is correct/right, as I am only human and I too make mistakes. But in the case of the Lion, and conservation minded lion hunting, any mistakes I have made - have been done in "good faith", and with loads of effort, time, knowledge, experience and money put forth to try and halt the up-listing of the lion. The part that I find most interesting is the numerous arm-chair quarterbacks here, who have done NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING, more than sit on the sidelines hurling stones - but certainly haven't tried to get in the game, or do any good what-so-ever for the lion! They seem to have all the answers, but the only effort put forth has been to bash/dis-credit those of us that are trying to do what we can/what we think is right? Frankly - I'll take my efforts, and the mistakes I've made along the way, in place of doing NOTHING but complaining on an internet forum. Maybe some should think about that??? I sincerely respect all of you as hunters, respect the fact that we all can at sometimes dis-agree, and most sincerely want the best for the African Lion, both now and well into the future. Written words have been said to be mis-interpreted over 90% of the time. If anyone wants to, is willing to, call and talk to me personally, I think you would get a much more accurate opinion of me as a hunter/conservationist, a person, and a man. Anyone who would ever say I am arrogant, or am doing this for attention/ego - obviously does not know me AT ALL. I never understand assumptions like that, made about others - that one has never met, ever??? Good day all, and good hunting!!!! | |||
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Y'all done emptying your bladders yet? I think its time to move on and focus on the issues that matter, and pissing on each other is not one of them. | |||
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Wow! What is that? 175+ names dropped in 2 posts?  you must be an authority then.Name Dropping
False Authority Falacy
I disagree, Lane and yourself have shown through your actions repeatedly that you sincerely disrespect much of the hunting industry (hunters and professionals). I have news for you Aaron, this forum and the hunting industry in general is not YOUR hunting camp where you get to talk shit and condescend your clients about what they shoot or want to shoot, and to bring your little lackey camp manager Lane along who has no experience just adds insult to injury. You and Lane's approach described above has done more to hurt hunting than any "anti" ever dreamed of because it has come from within. I have never stated that lion hunting is not threatened by the "anti's", what I have stated was that you and Lanes Decision to acknowledge (falsely) that hunters are what are harming lions means that you have sided with the enemy. Welcome to reality Aaron, you and Lane ARE anti-hunters, and 2 of the most effective ones I have ever seen. Rather than attacking from the outside which we can defend, you have attacked from the inside like a cancer while giving credit to the cause of the enemy attacking from the outside. As far as you being "arrogant" and this being about your "pride/ego", most can see that this is exactly what this is about for both you and Lane, you are using the "save the lion" cause to exercise authority over others because it strokes your egos. Now, you can sit here and lie and deny, but we all know the truth. I would encourage others to step forward and call this what it is. | |||
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I respect Nganga. He is a friend and a good guy...a respected business man and a very experienced hunter. I am going to be long winded here...so please bear with me. My family are cattle ranchers. The old ones settled and homesteaded in Jack Co. Texas when Fort Richardson was the farthest fort into Commanche territory. They settled in the edge of hostile Commanche country and began to carve out a living for themselves in one of the harshest environments one could imagine. I only state this to lay down the frame work to show you that I come from a long line of independent, self-sufficient, libertarian type people that don't want ANYONE telling them what they can or cannot do. I personally grew up in West Texas but my family moved back to Jacksboro right before high school where I attended. I bascially grew up in the country (can't say woods cause there ain't any in West Texas) with a rifle, a shotgun, a pistol (yep had a pistol by the 5th grade), or a fishing pole in my hands. If I was wasn't hunting, fishing, or trapping...I was horseback roping or working cattle. I went to town very little. I ran a trapline from the 8th grade through the 12th for extra income and bought my first truck when I was 15 with money I had earned with my own 2 hands...something I have done my whole life now. I had my own pack-string from my late 20's through my early 30's and packed into the remote wilderness of the Weminuche and South San Juan for weeks at a time in elk season...all on my own with out a guide. I lived and still live to hunt and have never known anything else in life but being a hunter. Recently, Performance Equine Associates (my company) built a new equine hospital in southern Oklahoma. People know us by reputation so our ideal location is a secluded area off the beaten path. We are now located on old US 77 where there is no through traffic (I-35 carries it) so you just about have to want to come see us to drive by our hospital...nice and peaceful just like I like it. The old hospital was in Whitesboro, TX on US 377. We built that hospital in 1999...just 14 years ago. When we got that hospital built...I used to sit on the front porch and talk on the phone and look into the peanut fields across the road...you could see a couple of houses...but just a couple. If 2 cars came by down the highway before lunch...it was a high traffic day. I loved it. By 2006 though, things were changing. Traffic got so bad that you could hardly pull out of the front gate with out waiting 30 min on a clear spot and then by 2010...when I sold my interest in the old property, we had had 5 Careflight helicopters land in out parking lot to evac car wreck victims...2 of which were fatalities. At night at that time...it looked like the hospital was in the middle of a suburb...all the peanut fields were gone. Infact...in Whitesboro where they have the annual Peanut Festival...the peanut mill even closed down...huge place sitting vacant to this day. Things had definitely changed. I just got home late Thursday night from moderating a scientific meeting on equine surgery and sports medicine. The meeting was held at a resort on Lake LBJ outside of Marble Falls, TX. To back up a little...when I was in vet school at Texas A&M in the late 80's and then back in the early 90's for residency...you could drive down I-35 south of Ft. Worth and never get close to another car. Since about the mid-2000's...you were subject to be in stand-still traffic anywhere south of the Metroplex on I-35 on any given day at anytime of the day. I avoid it like the plague. But...you could always still get down old US 281 all the way to San Antone fairly easily...at least til now...it is almost as bad as I-35. There is almost no good way to get to South Texas from North of the DFW area anymore its a sad situation to say the least. Recently...Rick Perry ran adds in NY and NJ welcoming people to come to Texas and I say please don't ask any more to come...population is getting rediculous. I tell these stories to illustrate a point. I grew up as a West Texas Cowboy and outdoorsman who hated cities and any place there were too many folks. I always wished I had grown up in the late 1800's in the hayday of the cowboy and African hunting. I have spent most of my life preserving the "old ways". I can't even get used to driving my wife's new Ford Explorer telling me how to drive and actaully driving for me in some instances. I wish we were even back in the 1980's when black rhino were common in Chewore a place many of you go today. Yep...as short a time ago as 33 years...I can guarantee that you would have probably been chased by a blackie while walking down the Angwa looking for a bushbuck. So I hear folks like Nganga and Zimbabwe loud and clear. I really sympathize with Zimbabwe when he says he is glad he is never going back and he remembers it (Africa) the old way. The problem is that the old days are gone...sadly...to never return. We can all wish for them...but they are not coming back. Just like I can't and never will again have a peaceful pleasant drive from Gainesville, Texas to Three Rivers ever again...unless God sends another flood...which I sometimes hope he does. Prior to lion...I worked on black rhino (actually still do). What a lot of folks don't realize is that all rhino are not resistant to trypanosomes (Afrcan Sleeping Sickness). Some of the last genetics in Black Rhino that are still resistant to tryps are in the Midlands Black Rhino Sanctuary. When they were moved there from "The Valley"...everyone thought it was for a short time then they would be re-introduced back and once again people would sit in camp on the Chenjie and see them come to water. Now they are alsmost all gone...genetics that code for tryps resistance may be lost forever...soon. Rhino are such a lost cause as far as reintroduction now that even the antis don't cry about them much. What a DAM SHAME...and IT COULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED...but good men did nothing. Now...fast forward to the lion and the LCTF. Aaron and I decided we had to try to do something to prevent lion from going the way of the rhino. Sure we have John Jackson...but he is attorney and his approach is to work after the fact in the court of law which often times is unsuccessful...hence the polar bear. We decided we would try to unite the pro-hunting scientist (which actually most are) with the hunting community. Our strategy was that if science and hunting were unitied that the Anti's would have no real teeth when it came to agencies like USF&W. We initially thought it would not be that difficult (laughing)...but you all see the struggle. It is not mmine or Aaron's intention to ruin lion hunting. Or...to tell anyone how to live there lives or how to conduct business. OUR GOAL WAS TO PRESERVE LION HUNTING HOWEVER WE COULD in this ever changing world which I seldom truly understand. We would both prefer to NOT be in this role. We would both prefer for Africa to be like the days of old with plenty of everything...problem is...IT JUST AIN'T. So...I promise you all...their NO ONE amongst you that wishes lion hunting or any kind of hunting was just like it was when TR went to Africa and folks like J Hunter were roaming Kenya. I do more than anyone. I just wish Texas was still like it was in 1970 and Zimbawe was still as it was in 1980's...but it is not. But Aaron and I are committed to preserving what little bit of wild Africa remains and that means preserving lion hunting for the day that no more wild lions are hunted...marks the beginning of the end. I have learned A LOT about lion in the past 5 years. I have learned enough to confidently say that Mark Sullivan's (a man I have no problem with) lion he claimed was 12 is not. I think it is important for the the client hunter to also be informed and knowledgeable. He needs to know better when an unscrupulous PH says that 3 year old is mature and he is just a "bush cat" and that is the reason he has no mane. I think an informed hunter is less liekly to be angry at a PH for being cautious about pulling the trigger on a lion and so on and so forth. There are lots of reasons for us...the hunters...to be educated and knowledgeable about the quarry we hunt. So...if I have ever offended anyone by anything I have said in regards to lion...I apologize now or in advance. But I was qoting or stating the the best science we have available to us at present in an effort to share the knowledge...NOT to be condescending to anyone. The LCTF only wnats to preserve the priviledge to hunt lion and what is left of wild Africa...which means means conservation...which means learning science and statistics. In regards to our friend Fairgame (Andrew Baldry)...I hold him in the highest esteem and know he wants the same same thing. We just disagree on a few of the minor how's and why's. Andrew and I have never met although we do converse privately and we share mutual aquaintances. I regard Andrew as a friend...but I do not have a true friend that I can not speak frankly with...which is all that I was doing in my conversation with him. Sincerely, Lane ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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'It ain't what you say it's the way that you say it' It's been my experience that people who claim that they don't like the way people say things are actually saying that they don't like what you're saying because either :- a) it challenges their belief and they have no come back or b) they know what the other person is saying is the truth and they don't like it. 'Hubris and other things' Stephen Hawkins, Oscar Wilde, Einstein, Darwin, Freud et al have all been accused of hubris and other such things stated in this thread about members of the LCTF! Need i say more? Whilst i do not like hunting i respect that you (generic) have the right to hunt. BUT on the other side of the coin i have the right to expect that hunting is as well managed and good for the conservation of animals as possible! I see many of you here berating the LCTF and their efforts to conserve the lion but very few of you actuallly standing up and being counted, doing your bit. The proposed strict punishments of hunters shooting lions under the age of 6 should be welcomed by those of you who are conservation minded. Even i would not say that accidents / mistakes do not happen, but i would also say once can be put down to accident, twice - carelessness and thrice, downright don't care. It seems to me that only those out there who are not / or do not want to abide by the 6 year old rule have anything to truly worry about it As i stated in the thread i started over in lion conservation some of you folks at AR are doing a mighty fine job of turning on each other and becoming an 'antis' dream! | |||
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Oho, the village idiot is back! Jolessbrains, As you can see, we discuss things in the open. We don't DELETE and BAN those who disagree with us. Tell that to your silly idiots running LIONAID! | |||
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Lane and Aaron Thank you for the work you and the rest of LCTF do for us hunters. I for one do not understand Brads opinion. Good Hunting Carl Frederik | |||
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WOW!! Looks like someone approves of the LCTF, care to opine on my "anti-hunter" claim again? Funny, I don't remember seeing any of those names dropped by Aaron.  | |||
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OH ... OK! I get it now!!! This is another "Shoot the Messenger" thread! Not that there is really much disagreement with the message being put forth by the LCTF, but rather a character assignation of the guys who are actually doing something more than just talking about saving lion hunting! Considering ALL of the OTHER efforts being made right now on behalf of hunters to preserve wild lion hunting in Africa today in light of the major effort being promoted to the USFWS to shut it down, yep, criticizing Lane and Aaron for being aggressive in their efforts seems like the thing to do! With the decision to uplist the lion at hand, I suggest we shit-can the LCTF and go with one of the OTHER major efforts representing hunters to the USFWS. Any one of the OTHER efforts will be fine! Which ONE of the OTHER efforts do you guys suggest? | |||
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DON'T put words in my mouth to suit your own petty agenda!! I didn't say i approved of the LCTF, i don't know enough about them to approve! If hunting of the lion is not stopped then i want the next best thing, a well managed hunting industry that does its best for the conservation of the lion. For me bringing in rules like the 6 year one and harsh punishments for those who break the rule is most welcome. What i don't want is hunters like YOU and i don't mean generically who wouldn't give a toss how old the lion was or whether it was part of a pride being able to run amock with no care for conservation!! Put bluntly you and i again don't mean generically are every conservation minded hunters worst enemy!! | |||
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DON'T put words in my mouth to suit your own petty agenda!! I didn't say i approved of the LCTF, i don't know enough about them to approve! If hunting of the lion is not stopped then i want the next best thing, a well managed hunting industry that does its best for the conservation of the lion. For me bringing in rules like the 6 year one and harsh punishments for those who break the rule is most welcome. What i don't want is hunters like YOU and i don't mean generically who wouldn't give a toss how old the lion was or whether it was part of a pride being able to run amock with no care for conservation!! Put bluntly you and i again don't mean generically are every conservation minded hunters worst enemy! | |||
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I tried to be involved with the LCTF and bad luck for me I just do not have as much time as I would like. I did however attend LCTF meeting in Dallas and I just did not get the feeling that I or anyone else was being treated as 505 describes. I have asked Lane questions and got answers probably dumb questions but never was I talked down to. The same goes for Aaron. I am all for debate about ways to save lions and right now the legal side by JJ and the science side by LCTF and there is a political side going on behind the scenes that is harder to get into.505 has the right to his opinion as do I and from looking in I don't see how he gets where he is. I do however see a personal vendetta against Lane and Aaron which I don't see helping the lion. I just returned from a lion hunt and did not shoot a lion. I saw a lion I would have shot 10 years ago but I would not now and both PH's agreed and made the comment that the lion needed more time. I feel like most PH's are trying to do their best which is a good thing. I applaud the work Aaron and Lane have put in and hope it helps keep lion hunting open for years to come. Again if someone has a better way lets use it also but to continue name calling is getting old, let's have some ideas to help the cause not hurt it. | |||
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I didn't, I actually quoted you and everyone here can clearly see what side the LCTF is on..... | |||
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You really didn't get the spin from Jolouburn you were hoping for....and the thread is now spinning out of YOUR control. You need better luck, or skill. Bob DRSS DSC SCI NRA & ISRA | |||
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Must say you Texans are game. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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Brad - You are obviously entitled to your opinion. You are also obviously entitled to dis-agree with me, Lane, the LCTF, and anyone else who thinks a conservation minded approach/change to previous lion hunting standards is/was needed. You can call it name dropping if you like, I'll call it the facts - supported by a lot of the industry leaders who obviously agree, and lent their name in support of what they believe to be a much needed change as well. Not to mention DSC, adopting the definition as their lion hunting standard. Its clearly on the DSC home page, if you care to see it. Its also obvious that no matter what I say/do, you will find something that you don't like, or some way that its arrogant, self-serving, etc. That's fine too. I'm proud of the fact that we have effected some change, of which has garnered a lot of support from folks whom I respect. Like I said earlier, I'm more impressed/proud of the fact that many well respected industry folks are in support of said new policies, than I am with the opinion of some on AR that dis-agree with us, for whatever reason. So Brad, if continuing to call me names, or trying to dis-credit me, Lane, the LCTF, or anyone associated with, or in agreement with us - is for you, the best use of your time, then carry on my friend. I'll keep fighting for the lion, and you can keep fighting with me/Lane. I realize that you and your supporters here dis-agree with the LCTF's position, and most likely our response to the USFWS regarding the potential lion up-listing too? A response by the way, with well-respected/scientific support, as well as industry expert support also. 1. You obviously are also passionate about this most important issue. So can we also assume that you, "Shakari", and others - collaborated on a well thought out, maybe statistically supported, or perhaps scientific/industry expert supported, response to the USFWS in regards to this possible up-coming threat? Maybe you guys even included in your petition, your suggestions/ideas for a policy, system, or plan in which you would find appropriate as it pertains to hunting the African lion? Could you please share that petition with us? It shouldn't take long to read, considering your position in the matter. 2. If not a petition to the USFWS, have you guys petitioned DSC/SCI, conservations groups, or any of the scientific community (you know, the ones that the USFWS is most likely to listen to) in an effort to get your "it ain't broken/don't fix it" policy towards lion hunting, into place? 3. If not any of the above, at least you guys have spent your own time/effort and money trying to teach the industry/scientific community about the "it ain't broke/don't fix it" policy, right? I mean, I know I missed you at the several DSC monthly meetings/convention seminars I was asked to present at, in favor of our lion hunting initiative. But certainly, you guys have somehow/somewhere presented your case for - "do nothing, it'll all be ok", right?? In other words Brad, what have you done for the lion, lion hunting, and lion conservation?" Or have you just taken to AR as your personal LCTF, Aaron/Lane whipping post? | |||
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Gentlemen, Joelessbrains is a perfect example of some of the people who do read AR. It also includes other examples of the sad crooked industry who are involved in the wholesale relocation of captured animals to be shot as "trophies" by fame seeking so called "trophy" hunters. We have read here about some lions being shot in places where they have never existed for years. Just so some Wall Street idiot can smile and have his photo taken with it, and he can brag about it while attending an "SCI Inner Circle" winners party. The people mentioned above are NOT conservative minded - just as Joelessbrains and her lot at lionaid have absolutely no concept of what conservation is. One lot is only interested in putting as much money into their own pockets by lying to the general public, and the other is only interested in glorifying themselves when they look in the mirror. LCTF has only been in existence for a short period of time. They have already put themselves in a very prominent position to save hunting for all of us. I certainly don't agree with some of their criticism regarding some past lion hunters. And I don't agree with those same hunters who have felt guilty enough to remove their hunt reports and photos. This is a perfect example of why we as hunters should stick together. Many of us enjoying hunting lions. And no matter whether you have never shot a lion, but wish to hunt one, or a seasoned lion hunter like Aaron, who devotes his time hunting his favorite animal. Blaming him for shooting a number of lions is just as bad as blaming a someone who has shot what we now consider is a lion that is too you to shoot. Neither of them have broken any laws. Ho many of us shoot any animal that our PH said we should not shoot? I suspect no very many. In all my years of hunting, I have always taken my PH advice on what animal I should shoot. So it is the PH who should be educated on how to judge the age of a lion. Of course, those so called PHs who buy lions from farms and sell them off as wild animals know precisely the age of their pet lions. And the fame seekers who shoot these lions cannot claim they nothing of what is going on. If that is what they claim, they have no business hunting at all. | |||
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It is true you quoted my entire post but it is not true that you quoted me saying 'i support the LCTF'. Please either quote the portion which states i support the LCTF or admit you twisted and spun to have your petty dig! Now the portion i highlighted in red. Let's just pretend for a moment that everyone who shares your stance on the LCTF in this thread also shares your opinion that they are anti-hunting! That is at best 50% of the people in this thread that agree with you. So yet again you lie with your 'everyone' claim!
Yet another lie, you haven't just 'watched' have you? I've read the recent few and you and one other poster were antagonists looking for an argument and to be as obtuse as possible. Just full of those untruths and half truths ain't ya? | |||
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Ok guys, I've been following this thread with great interest, but I don't see it's getting anywhere. It's obvious that Brad, Aaron and Lane don't get along on this topic, so please let's bury the hatchet! Hopefully LCTF has realized that some of their posts and the way they sometimes treat hunters has a negative connotation. The main threat for Lions (and Game in general) is habitat loss and poaching. Well managed sport hunting is not a threat to any game species. I think we need to remember that!! I think we all agree that lions need and deserve some strict rules to make sure all hunting is done on a sustainable level. Let us not fight about the details as we sit all in the same boat. Big Game hunters are an endangered species and we are outnumbered by deluded greenies. The fact that a douchebag like jolouburn is able to step in our discussion here shows where the real problem is. We need to stick together and fight those who hate hunting and don't give a f*ck about wildlife!! Cheers Dennis | |||
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Im able to step into any of the discussions thanks to Saeed being fair and allowing me to post. I don't see that there will be a ban on hunting lion anytime soon and with that in mind i want the next best thing - legal, responsible, uncorrupt hunting. Is that really so different from what you want? As for the name calling, please its pathetic and beneath you and doesn't affect me in the slightest! | |||
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Dennis, On this...you, I, Aaron, and LCTF could not agree more. But...what if a politically influenced agency like USF&W arbitrarily took away well managed sport hunting??? It would devastate predator species like lion almost immediately...we all know that. They key words in your quote above are: "well managed". The LCTF is all about giving the hunter the information it needs to conduct good management, helping to establish guidelines that keep those less motivated in check, and standing up for hunters in the political arena. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Saeed, Your comment on wall street idiots sound like an OBama comment. What makes you think only people Associated with wall street do what you said. I could easily say royal family idiots do the same. I know everyone likes to blame wall street for everything but coming from you it seems strange. Exactly what is wall street to you, just idiots or is it the people that raised the capital for oil Companies so they could get oil out of the ground for people that would have never been able to get it. I ee Plenty of people doing what you described that have nothing to do with wall street. I for one Make a living in the financial sector and you are just off base. I agree with most of your post But I think you are a little to quick to blame one group. I realize to you it is all GWB's fault but I happen to think there is much more blame to go around than one man or on group. all of which has nothing to do with saving hunting. Again the LCTF is young but it is out there trying.I hope all Of those that do not care for it will start a group and fight Just as hard. Let's stay on task and keep lion hunting open. | |||
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As per usual, I'm late for the ball! One thing that No one has shown/proved/published in a Peer Reviewed Scientific Journal is parentage testing on lions to actually back up this claim that, "only lions over 6 yrs of age should be shot, BECAUSE...people assume that a lion hasn't been breeding/producing offspring thus imparting its genetic diversity within the community of lions prior.." I would also like to see the tooth X-ray/age of lions Published Peer Reviewed Article...and also would love to hear the logic behind even following up with the work, considering judging the age of lions on the pad is what we're after! Which I honestly, don't believe anyone will ever be able to do accurately/precisely. Once those spots are gone...it's anyone's guess. There's just too many variables that can manipulate Phenotypic traits! As for Aaron and Lane/LCTF...I will second other people complaints, your post calling into questions someone's trophy, like the guy who when to Zambia..shot a lion, you crapped all over his hunt report, and he took it down, was a total Jerk Move! I have personally found some of the comments, and post you both have made offensive. Now I'm just little ol' me, which is fine, you don't need to worry about my feelers...however, but both of you now represent LCTF...which means, you better realize, whether you post under LCTF or your personal names...it's all being associated together. So when you act like a JERK...it makes LCTF look like a JERK. As for AR...things around here are getting more and more hostile...I talk to friends who all say the same thing "too much BS/bullying"...I haven't posted in quite a while in general, much less, hunting reports. It's ridiculous, the self-proclaimed gurus are waiting for you with bats when you walk into the hallway. I'm hoping that everyone would evaluate their own reasons for being on this site, and use it for good, vs. grinding their axe or waving their burning flag. As per usual comeback, "what have you done for conservation?!?!" Well you guys know who I am, and know that I initiated a very large multi-country conservation project 4 yrs ago, based from a major University. So let's not go there.  | |||
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I am only aware of Wall Street wannabe hunters buying trophies to enter into SCI record book! | |||
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Again what is that definition based on? What is a wall street wannabee? If one guy who works on wall street makes everyone a wall street idiot what is everyone else who bought a lion in SA.what about the wall steet guy who spends his money on good conservation, is he to a wall street idiot. Bad use of words is all I am saying! | |||
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I'll broaden the definition: Everyone involved in the financial sector, but especially those who work on Wall Street, are idiots.  | |||
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Jealousy is really a tough thing to deal with. I am also sure you are smarter than all of them put together. Oh but your comment shows exactly how smart you are. | |||
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That's an absolutely absurd statement! | |||
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Lane in RED. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Lane, Thank you for the response, I'm glad to hear that proof is waiting to be published, that will certainly be great to read. As for the other comments concerning funding, it was never brought to my attention, but sadly I guess we are all victims of personality issues with others. Fortunately there were other people and organizations who thought enough of our project to overlook my shortcomings for the benefit of conservation. I didn't ever say that you didn't help/contribute (any help you did behind the scenes, I really appreciate)...but I worked on it for 3 years. Also, your wording of "joined the DNA Project..." is certainly not true. There wasn't a project before I started working on it...there might have been an idea/discussion (maybe a small amount of field work?!?! That I was never made aware of?) of doing something but at the end of the day, it was dead in the water, there wasn't a name, program, website, participants, university endorsement, DNA collection kit, system for data storage, or any major support from any one group (I want to say a special thanks to all of the supporters of the project at any given time, DSC/SCI/HSC/Private Donors/Phasa/Napha/other misc. hunting associations), nothing..so not really sure what I could have joined. It was an idea...from that Dr. D and I both worked very hard to get it off the ground and running. I would think that deserves a little credit! You are correct, I did graduate and are not working on the project day to day...but was a very nice treat when a friend who recently returned from Africa walked into my office with one of the project brochures that I designed that he picked up while in Africa. Let retract my "jerk" comment, and please accept my apologize to both you and Aaron. You are right, it wasn't appropriate for me to say that, however I still think the method by which you all have dealt with certain people's photos/post has been not friendly. Which is why I think others on this forum might have taken offense. Just my two pennies! | |||
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Jared, There is still a little more to the story about the DNA collection project but you may not even know it and that is not your fault and no need hashing here. Thank you sir for your apology and retraction...it is appreciated. Aaron and I have certainly made mistakes...no question. The "wrldhunter" thing was long ago though and we have tried to do better since. So we do heed your criticism and have tried to take it to heart. Hope all is well in your new career! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Lane, Thank you sir, things are certainly going well in the new career. I'm very happy down here in Houston, do you ever come to town? | |||
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I do actually come down and operate a case once in a while. I will definitely try to meet up next time. To Jared and all...Jared is a valued friend. His contribution to African Wildlife Conservation has been significant.  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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And now you personally attack Oryx...I am done with reading this crap. Good luck with LCTF. It's a noble cause. Jeff | |||
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Jeff, Jared and I have history that you don't know about. My response was justified. You should read our last posts. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Thank you Lane, indeed when you're down, a drink is in order! That way we can argue face to face! LOL...jk! | |||
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